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Old 11-13-2007, 07:39 AM   #1
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Smile Mowa Choctaws

Mowa's Chief Taylor does DNA on wkrg5 news. His Haplogroup is R1B native american

Last edited by lilred4220; 11-15-2007 at 08:17 AM.. Reason: Link is no longer available
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:56 AM   #2
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Okay, I've read this and I really debated on wether or not that I was going to post, but I did decide to.

Lilred--please understand that anything that I may say here is NOT a direct attack on you and is truely ment in the most respectful way. If this is what you wanted me to have emailed you for you to send me, this is the exact same thing that we discussed in the thread "Fake tribes vs. 'we are too real!!!'" on page 4 of the postings. I am listing this for anyone who comes into this thread and reads it, but doesn't post--so that they may look up the other info and I won't repeat myself (for the most part).

You keep posting all these DNA test results and I am getting the idea that you seem to believe that these tests are going to give you "Tribal Validation", I'm sorry they are not.

I read the news article and I have to say that I got a big chuckle from the part where they said "Ancetors came out of Africa and made a quick turn into Greece." Now that was really funny because all that I have looked at--I have never seen that stated anywhere about anyone's ancestry.

These tests that were taken are exactly what we talked about in the other thread: Mtdna. However, I think that the two men had the Y-Str Dna test as well. The reason that I'm saying this is because the Haplogroup looks like a Y-str number (to me).

We did not cover Y-Str DNA in the other post. The Y-Str DNA is a Male only test and a very similar test to the MtDna. The Y-Str traces only a mans father's father's side all the way back to the first male in his line. Again it is NOT exact and will not tell you exactly when, where or who. Again, as with the Mtdna, they only make up about 1/16-1/32 or less of your total DNA.

Last edited by timmy tiger; 11-16-2007 at 04:46 AM..
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Old 11-15-2007, 02:14 AM   #3
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National Geographic DNA Tests

I looked into these tests that you posted here and (basically) found the very same info as with any other DNA place on line. They don't give you anymore or less information.

According to the article and what I looked at on the National Geographic website (I didn't go all into it) they don't list here how many genes that were tested on each person. Yes, that can (not always) make a difference. They list a cost of $100, depending on the test and how many Genes, that might be okay.

I have seen the MtDna tests like this:
MtDna Linear-array---$150 each person (Cheat sheet---garbage)---Don't do this it's a rip off and not worth the money that you would spend, you can get more for the same or a little more. With the linear-array they only test 10 regions, using 33 Sequence Specific Oligonucleotide Probes. Basically---they hit (what they call) 33 (genes) hot spots and throw them onto a graph with only about 8 options. Based on the millions of possibilities and the fact that the MtDna has about 16,569 genes in it, to only check 33--just is not worth it.

Mtdna---about 743 genes will be tested for about $129 (beats the above) and they check the actual genes (or are supposed to)

Mtdna---about 1143 genes tested for $189 (more genes--closer to one line)

Total MtDna--all the genes in your Mtdna for $485

I really don't know what the cost is for the Y-Str--and I don't know how many genes this carries in the males, this does not carry to any of his daughter's.


Okay, now when I looked at the National Geographic site, they gave specific information about these tests and I have taken a couple of those quotes to post here.

"You will not receive a percentage breakdown of your genetic background by ethnicity, race or geographic origin. Nor will you receive confirmation of an association with a particular Tribe or Ethnic group."

"This is not a genealogy study. You will not learn about your great-grandparents or other recent relatives, and your DNA trail will not necessarily lead to your present day location."

These two posts came right off their website where you order the DNA test. I don't think that that leaves any questions on total validation in these two tests, which are the only ones that they mention on their site as well. Again (as in the other thread), I'm not saying in anyway that you don't have an Indian ancestor or that YOU are not Indian, I'm saying (again) that this will not give you the exact person or how close they are to you. For that, Genealogy and research are still the only way to get an exact.

Last edited by timmy tiger; 11-16-2007 at 04:49 AM..
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Old 11-15-2007, 02:26 AM   #4
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More research materials

Okay, since we are talking about Mtdna and Native American's---I am going to list a few research documents that I have looked up and read through myself. Now, these are studies done, but I don't have an exact website for them (but I got them off the inter-net as well)


"Mitochondrial DNA Studies of Native Americans: Conception and Misconceptions of the Population Prehistory of the Americas"
By: Jason A. Eshleman, Ripan S. Malhi, and David Glenn Smith


"The uses and limitations of DNA based ancestry tests for Native Americans" (Submitted for Publication on 1/16/04)
By: Ripan S. Malhi and Jason A. Eshleman


Again, I do have a few more research articles if anyone would like to look them up.

This was not to be mean or hateful to anyone, but don't think that DNA is an exact, there is not enough research done to be that way. I really do think that they have the ability to maybe one day be able to do that, but not right now, today or anytime in the near future.

If you don't like what the scientists have come up with----Waite 10 years----this too shall pass like a bad kidney stone.(Smile)
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:08 AM   #5
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Timmy Tiger, No this is not what I was emailing you about, it was Eastern Cherokee Documents, Census, Property information, and other things. Seeing as in so many words you don't want to believe we are native american, you can think what you want all day long I have documents that trace back to Ft. Mims and blood work so it doesn't matter to me.
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:13 AM   #6
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Oh, by the way how do you think they get the blood percent of native american to be on a fed tribal roll and don't tell me they don't because the Poarch Creeks do and the MS Choctaws do.
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilred4220 View Post
Timmy Tiger, No this is not what I was emailing you about, it was Eastern Cherokee Documents, Census, Property information, and other things. Seeing as in so many words you don't want to believe we are native american, you can think what you want all day long I have documents that trace back to Ft. Mims and blood work so it doesn't matter to me.
First of all you need to re-read my post--I never doubted you or anyone else. I don't have that right, but to use DNA as a basis of total proof is really short changing yourself--sorry you didn't see it the way that I meant it.

Don't try twisting my words around. I have never in my life said that. I had never even heard of your "Tribe" until you posted on the other thread. I'm really not one for people putting their personal papers on a World Wide Web--just my personal feelings about it---you don't have to believe the same way that I do.

Well, thank you anyway--but I have alot of those documents myself including the actual roll books. Yes, EBC. And I wasn't trying to blow you off, I've been on the run.
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilred4220 View Post
Oh, by the way how do you think they get the blood percent of native american to be on a fed tribal roll and don't tell me they don't because the Poarch Creeks do and the MS Choctaws do.
Actually--I have seen the enrollement cards, many of them from many different Tribes. You have no idea who I am or where I come from any more then I do you, but I didn't do this for a fight. You seem to be getting offensive all because I said that DNA isn't all many people try to claim that it is. Those two tribes aren't the only ones. I made my points and now I'm outta here. Sorry that you feel the need to defend who you are---but it's sure not to me---I never thought anything bad about you---I don't even know you.
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