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Old 12-14-2005, 04:39 PM   #1
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Chicken Dance vs. Round Bustle

The Chicken Dance has a separate origin story, dance style and bustle differentiating it from the Round Bustle Dance.

Yet, they look close enough to be the same dance. Some people even think round bustle dancers ARE chicken dancers.

Should the Chicken Dance and the Round Bustle Dance be two separate dance categories?

Whatch'a think?
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Old 12-14-2005, 05:49 PM   #2
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hello whome you see to be a pretty knowledgeable person,(ive seen alot of your posts). being from the southeast i have not had the opportunity to see the differnce between the round bustle and chicken dance. could you enlighten me with some history of the round bustle dance(if its ok to post here) and some of the differences between the two. it would be greatly appreciated. as far as puttin them in 2 separate categories if they are as you say 2 different dances then yes separate them into 2 categories so that people don't get them mixed up.
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Old 12-15-2005, 06:05 AM   #3
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the dance of round bustle is a dance that the yakima and nez perce people did for the same reasons for the chicken dance! al though it looks simular but it is a very different style of dance.
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:14 AM   #4
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I'm going to have to agree with my boy Dan. Since they're two different dances, they shouldn't be done together, no matter how similar.
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:17 PM   #5
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well the chicken and round bustle are very different different orgin adifferent story different styler ECT. so they should be in different categories!!!
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Old 08-08-2006, 08:15 PM   #6
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round bustle V. chicken dance style,????

i will tell you what has been told to me by my elders, the round bustle dance style is more of the straight up style. we are told "you do not get fancy". i am asked by many young dancers who put on a NEW round bustle style outfit, how & why we do this and that, when we round bustle dance. i tell them "i don't mean to sound like i don't want you to learn,but YOU NEED to learn from YOUR elders and listen, and do what they tell you." this is the way i learned, i didn't ask why, i just do what they told me to do!!!

we dance pretty much straight up,with not much bending at the waist. arm movment is by dancers preference,by this i mean the dancers moves his arms as he sees fit. but mostly you will see the arms straight out and bent at the elbows.

sometime you will see a dancer do a forward toe tap and continue with the leg sweeping to the back or vice-versa, i know most of the dancers from long ago danced this way and a few of us still use them old moves or moves similar to them.

i believe the reason that people misinterpret the round bustle as a chicken dance may have came about from the dance our people named the ruffle dance. during this dance us round bustle style dancers mimic the prairie chicken,sage grouse and ruffed grouse courtship rituals.

so if your watching a round bustle/chicken dance catergory or special and you see some dancers that are not using all the moves as a chicken dancer, that dancer maybe doing the old style round bustle dance of the NW.

a point i'd like to make is that people who put up money for these catergories or specials should know that there is a difference.i know there are people who say there is no difference. you go to pow wows and you see a round bustle special advertised, it should be judged as a round bustle style special. just as a chicken dance special is judged as chicken dance style.

one reason i feel this way is that a few of us dress in the NW round bustle style for a round bustle style special or catergory and it turns into a chicken dance special or catergory.it means alot to us who have the respect to maintain our NW round bustle style to dance that style when we have our round bustle outfits on,and not disgrace the teachings our elders have handed down for us to take care of, by changing our style to chicken dance style for that special or catergory just because of money.our teachings should mean more to us than money!!!!

JUDGES NEED to know the differences also, as do the singers. i know many of the younger people around the NW need to learn from their elders also, about the way of the NW style of round bustle dancing as well.

this style of dancing is more than putting an outfit together just to get out there and compete for that all mighty dollar,most of us older dancers have been taught the stories and have outfits that have been handed down from one generation to the next and learned our styles from older brothers,uncles and g-pas who have danced this style way long before us.

as an example the blue beadwork i wear was made by my grandmother for one of my older brothers, and has been handed down through five brothers now including myself,this beadwork was made back in the 40-50's or even ealier. i know a few other round bustle dancers who wear beadwork & even complete outfits today that are just as older or older.

you'll probably notice i didn't post anything about the chicken dance style, the reason for that is, i am not a member of any chicken dance society or am not a person who professes to be an authority on the chicken dance style. but will say i have been encouraged to dance the chicken dance style by people who do know much of the teachings of the chicken dance. and am very thankful for their positive encouragement. nor do i profess to be an authority of the NW round bustle style, just a student.

yeah,i know your going to say that im kind of contradicting my beliefs by saying, im mixing my respect for teachings with competing for money,yeah,yeah. who can truely say he or she doesn't?

so back to the topic YES the two styles should have their own respective catergories.

kunku lawtiwama
yoko? kalo, qo?c ?e hexnu?
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:59 PM   #7
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:36 PM   #8
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I think that it would have to be chicken dance thingy..LOL all the way im an all out chicken dancer fan..LOL well for a couple of peeps and yea so i would be all out chicken dancer..so yea pce out homiez!!
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:13 PM   #9
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chicken dance -vs- round bustle

I believe that both dances should be seperated. they both originated in seperate parts this native country. the chicken dance is from blackfeet country and i believe the round bustle came from shoshone country. i can be wrong, but alot of shoshone teach the round bustle and i see them at the powwows in shoshone country. some families have different ways of adding and altering each bustle and outfit are belonging to different families (families own styles). more less it is the family that carry the teaching of these dances. dont know to much about the chicken dance, but both dances are very unique and deserve their own respect.dont want to compare two totally different tribes and and put them together and say " your the same".Just like all us natives we are not the same, were a all individual nations. so they are totally different so they should be kept as seperated catagories.
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hahtalekin
i will tell you what has been told to me by my elders, the round bustle dance style is more of the straight up style. we are told "you do not get fancy". i am asked by many young dancers who put on a NEW round bustle style outfit, how & why we do this and that, when we round bustle dance. i tell them "i don't mean to sound like i don't want you to learn,but YOU NEED to learn from YOUR elders and listen, and do what they tell you." this is the way i learned, i didn't ask why, i just do what they told me to do!!!

we dance pretty much straight up,with not much bending at the waist. arm movment is by dancers preference,by this i mean the dancers moves his arms as he sees fit. but mostly you will see the arms straight out and bent at the elbows.

sometime you will see a dancer do a forward toe tap and continue with the leg sweeping to the back or vice-versa, i know most of the dancers from long ago danced this way and a few of us still use them old moves or moves similar to them.

i believe the reason that people misinterpret the round bustle as a chicken dance may have came about from the dance our people named the ruffle dance. during this dance us round bustle style dancers mimic the prairie chicken,sage grouse and ruffed grouse courtship rituals.

so if your watching a round bustle/chicken dance catergory or special and you see some dancers that are not using all the moves as a chicken dancer, that dancer maybe doing the old style round bustle dance of the NW.

a point i'd like to make is that people who put up money for these catergories or specials should know that there is a difference.i know there are people who say there is no difference. you go to pow wows and you see a round bustle special advertised, it should be judged as a round bustle style special. just as a chicken dance special is judged as chicken dance style.

one reason i feel this way is that a few of us dress in the NW round bustle style for a round bustle style special or catergory and it turns into a chicken dance special or catergory.it means alot to us who have the respect to maintain our NW round bustle style to dance that style when we have our round bustle outfits on,and not disgrace the teachings our elders have handed down for us to take care of, by changing our style to chicken dance style for that special or catergory just because of money.our teachings should mean more to us than money!!!!

JUDGES NEED to know the differences also, as do the singers. i know many of the younger people around the NW need to learn from their elders also, about the way of the NW style of round bustle dancing as well.

this style of dancing is more than putting an outfit together just to get out there and compete for that all mighty dollar,most of us older dancers have been taught the stories and have outfits that have been handed down from one generation to the next and learned our styles from older brothers,uncles and g-pas who have danced this style way long before us.

as an example the blue beadwork i wear was made by my grandmother for one of my older brothers, and has been handed down through five brothers now including myself,this beadwork was made back in the 40-50's or even ealier. i know a few other round bustle dancers who wear beadwork & even complete outfits today that are just as older or older.

you'll probably notice i didn't post anything about the chicken dance style, the reason for that is, i am not a member of any chicken dance society or am not a person who professes to be an authority on the chicken dance style. but will say i have been encouraged to dance the chicken dance style by people who do know much of the teachings of the chicken dance. and am very thankful for their positive encouragement. nor do i profess to be an authority of the NW round bustle style, just a student.

yeah,i know your going to say that im kind of contradicting my beliefs by saying, im mixing my respect for teachings with competing for money,yeah,yeah. who can truely say he or she doesn't?

so back to the topic YES the two styles should have their own respective catergories.

kunku lawtiwama
yoko? kalo, qo?c ?e hexnu?
I agree with hahtalekin.........I believe that the two categories should be separated based on their different ways of dancing. hahtalekin.........I really enjoyed reading your quote.......keep up the good dancing, beliefs and tradishns. Always respect ur elders........
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:12 PM   #11
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I strongly believe they should be seperated because of there origin and the dance style are way different from each other round bustle dancers are more upright and with a steady dance step when danceing; while the chicken dancer has head, shoulder, and body movement; plus chest sticks out and more choppy steps then the roud bustle. but both have a slight bounce to the drum beat while dancing, so i think they should be in different catagories at dances across powwow country.

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Old 12-20-2006, 06:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hahtalekin
yeah,i know your going to say that im kind of contradicting my beliefs by saying, im mixing my respect for teachings with competing for money,yeah,yeah. who can truely say he or she doesn't?
Me. I find other, more creative ways to contradict myself!

That said, moderate gambling is a pretty traditional thing in our area - it's like that a lof of places, I think. I think maybe contest dancing could be thought of as a kind of gamble - pitting your own skill and luck against someone else's. That's gambling, yah? So maybe it's not much of a contradiction after all.

Not much of a gamble when other dancer's friends and relatives are judging the contest though, is it.
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Old 12-23-2006, 04:58 AM   #13
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Thanks for the explanation of the difference of the 2 types of this dance. Chicken Dance is my absolute favorite style of dance. Being in The South, I didn't know about the Round Bustle. Hopefully next year I will get to travel a lot and see a lot more of teh different styles of dance.
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Old 06-25-2007, 04:29 PM   #14
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Round Bustle

As stated before, the Round bustle needs to in a category of it's own, although you see roundbustle specials it's usually the chicken dancers that get picked dressed somewhat like roundbustlers dancing like chickens, yet when you see a chicken dance special or contest it's still the chicken dancers that place. Problem is that people forget what the round bustle style is and it should be broken down for them. to begin with, the Duck and dive is not a chicken dance style song. second many of these questions could be expressed in a Round bustle forum of its own... I asked for one... but the response I got back was there wasn't enough discussion on it. Well I think there is because it appears that there are unanswered questions out there that people are led to assume. Stop the ignorance and spread the good word across indian country because we are not only exploited ourselves we are misinforming the next generation that doesn't know what to believe.

that's all (yox kalo)
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:21 PM   #15
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hmm...interesting. I think that if there were enough round bustle dancers out there, a separate round bustle category would be awesome! But a lot of the times there are hardly enough chikk'n or round bustle dancers to make up their own category by themselves (around this way, anyway)...it sux when u have one without the other...or one that excludes the other. MYSELF, I'd rather see them have their own (chikk'n/round bustle) category TOGETHER than NONE at ALL...it's better than having either of them compete with the Traditional dancers...not to say that they're alike or have the same origins...but a judge can still pick who they think is the best out of the two. Maybe a chicken dancer wins...maybe a round bustle dancer wins...it always gets really political when it comes to these two categories...many want to put a claim on where these two dances came from...and I believe that YES, they may have started the dance...or their own version of it. But today, MANY different tribes from all over have taken this dance to different places...some good...some a little bit crazy...but nevertheless; they're out there doing it so lets give at least give ‘em their own category…even if they have to be together for a little while
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:22 PM   #16
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as for chicken's dancing w/grass dancers...Guy says it's because back in the day...grass dancers originally WORE BUSTLES or belts that were very similar to the chicken dancers style...more than the Traditional (so that's why, when there's not a chikk'n category, he dances w/the grass dancers)
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:30 PM   #17
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Some say Round bustle dancers are supposed to dance straight up and w/stiff arms. My gramps said that NOT ALL DANCERS back in the day danced like that. The GOOD one's (as he said it) were lively...they bend down...moved their arm bustles, moved their whole bodies...he said that most people assume that the Round Bustle dancers were to dance straight up because for a while, it died...the only one's who danced were old men...who couldn't really move like they could back in the day so people who thought they were learning the old style, actually missed out on how these old dancers used to jam when they were young, healthy and full of spirit...and so when "it came back" young men and kids were dancing like old men...my dad named a few old guys back in the day who used to dance round bustle...one that I heard him refer to was Johnson Meninick (DJ & JJ's gramps) He used to be a champ back in his day and he said that he was very lively and moved his arms...moved his head...arched his back...bent down-I even got to see him dance back in the 90's...and HE DID move as my gramps said...eventho he was old...he still had some moves in his pocket...he even made a speech and joked about young men/boys dancing like old men compared to how he danced...how old dancers danced back in the day...so, from what my grandpa said, and actually seeing an old skooler get down myself, I believe that round bustle dancers don't need to be so upright and old looking…my uncle Gup dances the old skoo style (as my grandpa taught him) and my dad (Todd) dances round bustle (some old skoo w/his own mix in it)...but they're both lively and dance proud...not like pusha's...LoL...but that’s how I heard it…THE END

P.S. My grandpa said that the duck and dive was a warriors dance...not a round bustle dance...it often gets misintrepreted because all of the warriors/veterans only danced round bustle...
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:16 AM   #18
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Yox c'a'a

Yep thats about right... The way I heard it was that each dancer had his own style... it was not all that well looked upon if you copied that person's style unlike the contemporary northern traditional style today... It was also known as the endurance dance... and may have even been the inspiration to the Oklahoma style of the Fancy dancing. as it is known that the plateau people were vast travelers. Yes there are many stories of the Round bustle and yeah I do believe you are right about at least having both included is good, but still have a hard time that the two will eventually merge and people will not be able to tell the difference. ... as with anything with our people the more we tend to compromise the more we risk of loosing. then it would evolve into pan-indianism... On that note, I agree with you about the duck and dive it is a warriors song, that much is true... It is Nez Perce warriors song in commemoration of the battle of Big Hole during the 1877 war.

thats is all...
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:56 AM   #19
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Are there specific songs for the Round Bustle dancers?

Do most drums know these songs?

Do enough people in Indian country know the origin story of the round bustle in order to explain it so more people will have a greater appreciation?

I think these are some considerations to think about before the Round bustle dance becomes mainstream.
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Old 06-29-2007, 12:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mz_FoXy_MoMmA View Post
as for chicken's dancing w/grass dancers...Guy says it's because back in the day...grass dancers originally WORE BUSTLES or belts that were very similar to the chicken dancers style...
Rocco Sr. says the grass dance was originally called the Belt Dance.


There are a bunch of old school round bustler pics in the Legends Casino west lobby.
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