Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree2Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Men's Dance Styles > Chicken Dance the Duck and Dive is not a chicken dance song the Duck and Dive is not a chicken dance song

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-11-2006, 07:55 PM   #1
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
heartbeat will become famous soon enough
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 15
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
the Duck and Dive is not a chicken dance song

Of you chicken dancers that know your history... even the Crow has the right to dance chicken because they paid for it from the Cree people and then adapted it to their style over the years. There are certin rights that need to followed in life. such as initiation ceremonies for the chicken dancers... How many chicken dancers out there can say that they have been initiated into that society. I imagine very few. Yes, it is important to learn the history and significance of the dances, the songs... without it we few indian people will be lost.

That brings me to the Duck and Dive. In the Battle of 1877, the Nez Perce people was attacked by the US Army at the Bighole valley. This attack came in early in the morning when all the people were sleeping. The Nez Perce had been celebrating the night before because they thought they had escaped the US calvery soldiers when they crossed over the Bitterroot Mountains. The soldiers were told to get as close as possible and shoot three volleys into each camp and move on. Little did they know that an unsuspecting elderman was up and walking around checking his horses. this man was shot dead and attack commenced. The soldiers did there task well and shot theree volleys into each camp killing the elders, woman and children in thier sleep. Soon the warriors had regrouped and pushed the soldiers back into the tree line angry for what they had done. The soldiers had placed a canon above the battlefield and fired a shot to scare the warriors off, but this did not scare them. instead the warriors charged the canon and after its second shot over took the canon and dismantled it. Those soldiers that escaped remember a sound that they would never like to hear again. It was the people morning over the ones that they had lost.

Those canon shots fired on the Nez Perce warriors in the 1877 Battle of Bighole is represented in that Duck and dive song. That song commemorates that battle and the time of hardship for the Nez Perce.

that is all
heartbeat is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-11-2006, 09:59 PM   #2
Fat Singer
 
billyjoejimbob's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
billyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond reputebillyjoejimbob has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: white guy land
Posts: 1,521
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Thank you for the explanation.

what are your thoughts on the DND bingused for competition? And for that matter, the sneak-up.

Both somewhat signify iomportant historical things and are being now used to win money.

When will the inipi and sun dance and yuwipi songs start to be used for powwows? makes you wonder.
billyjoejimbob is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-12-2006, 04:13 PM   #3
As you can see...
 
ntownn8ive's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown!
Posts: 5,862
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 40.00
Savings: 1.00
The orgins of the chicken dance is heavily disputed in Indian Country. Most likely, each tribe had a rendition of the dance or even a society. What is true, this form of dance has been intertribal since the turn of the century. Check out some of the historical pictures from the Northwest, Northern Canada, the Great Plains; the dress is pecularily the same: yoke, short breechcloth, porky headress, bell drops, feather-bunch bustle, etc. Society dancers? Hopefully not at powwows. True society members have outfits, headresses, pipes, lodges, bundles and caretakers. These are only brought out around Sundance time and are not open the public for view, display or show and definetly not competition. If anyone dancing at a powwow says that they are a society dancer and the regalia they are in is from a society, they are a friggin fake. As far as the history of the DND, I like the story; it was the same story that all of us singers from the NW were told upon learning the song. To go back a little further in NP history, the dress, tipis, beadwork, have the appearance of being "trans-montane", meaning that they were obtained from the other side of the mountian. The NP have maintained to be the link between the Plateau and Great Plains for centuries, thus, dress, song, dance, lodges and horses resembling that of their Great Plains neighbors. The prairie chicken is a humble winged being, hence the dancer depicting this in every sense: no flashy, bright colors, no eagle feathers, very humble and pitiful. All the chicken dancer has are struts, steps and attitude to court their mate. This is not a dance of battle or war; it is for the young men, youthful and energetic, thus excluding itself from the right to wear eagle feathers, dance to Veteran songs or wear bright colors. The Duck-n-Dive? Not for the humble, horny prairie chicken I say!
__________________

...that's so true....so, so true...
ntownn8ive is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-13-2006, 03:06 PM   #4
Junior Dancer
 
contemptradish's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
contemptradish is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pine Ridge, SD
Posts: 155
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
So the Crees came up with this song to honor the Nez Perce? Am I understanding correctly?
__________________
C-trad
contemptradish is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-13-2006, 05:12 PM   #5
As you can see...
 
ntownn8ive's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown!
Posts: 5,862
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 40.00
Savings: 1.00
Read it again my Indian from Indiana
__________________

...that's so true....so, so true...
ntownn8ive is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-13-2006, 06:08 PM   #6
Junior Dancer
 
contemptradish's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
contemptradish is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pine Ridge, SD
Posts: 155
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
"they paid for it from the Cree people..."

This is the farthest back you give ownership credit for the song style, right? According to what you've written, this means the Crees had it first.

"calvery soldiers"

I hate to do this but PLEASE(!!) learn how to spell the word correctly. US soldiers were in the cavalry. Calvary is the name of the hill where Jesus was crucified.

"Those canon shots fired on the Nez Perce warriors in the 1877 Battle of Bighole is represented in that Duck and dive song. That song commemorates that battle and the time of hardship for the Nez Perce.

Here we go with the religious talk again. A canon is an eccelsiastical doctrine or law... or did you mean caNNon??
So still after reading this, you don't say who made the song. If I'm not understanding what you said, please just tell me what you mean, b/c I don't get it then.

All in good fun
Thanks!

that is all
__________________
C-trad
contemptradish is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-13-2006, 07:54 PM   #7
As you can see...
 
ntownn8ive's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown!
Posts: 5,862
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 40.00
Savings: 1.00
HB was saying that the Crows paid the Crees the right to chicken dance....
__________________

...that's so true....so, so true...
ntownn8ive is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-13-2006, 08:11 PM   #8
As you can see...
 
ntownn8ive's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown!
Posts: 5,862
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 40.00
Savings: 1.00
Personally, I don't know who made the song...the Nez Perce have one, the Crows have one, anyone else??

Should it be used for chicken dancers? Some people including myself and HB do not think so.

Hooh Kairz about hiz spelling, and what do you mean "religious talk". I don't know where you're from, but you don't rep the NW, that's fo' sho'. HB's elders felt that it was important to pass down the story of this battle and this song generation after generation so that their people would know their history. Like I said, this was the same story that was told to me upon learning the duck and dive song years ago. This story was passed down so that we would sing, and remember and honor, not scrutinize. I'm tellin' you....this maybe a fun place to talk about PWz and all in good fun, but you find yourself amist the realm of real nativez. We all have something to share and contribute, we all have respect and honor for the power of song and dance. What's your purpose?
__________________

...that's so true....so, so true...
ntownn8ive is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2006, 03:10 AM   #9
www.wakalapi.com
 
Wakalapi's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Wakalapi has a reputation beyond repute
Wakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond reputeWakalapi has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Washington
Posts: 1,309
Credits: 336.00
Savings: 0.00
By "religious talk" I think he was trying to make a pun out of the accidental misspelling of "cavalry" as "Calvary" and "cannon" as "canon". But it flew right under foot. I agree wholeheartedly that it is important for people to know the history of the Duck-n-Dive, even know the various accepted versions, especially if they would ever sing it or dance to it.


BTW I was at the Coeur D'Alene Casino Powwow last March and Mr. Sijohn (CDA elder) announced the formation of a new Plateau Chicken Dance Society. I never followed up on finding out anything more about it, though.
__________________
"Friends don't let friends drink decaf..."
Wakalapi's $49 unlimited phone service www.49deal.com

Last edited by Wakalapi; 07-14-2006 at 03:13 AM..
Wakalapi is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2006, 04:18 PM   #10
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 7,149
Credits: 11,554.70
Savings: 0.00
Question?


The Duck and Dive dance and the song that accompanies it have great significance to the Nez Perce'. It is said the Crow also have 3 songs with a similar story to accompany these songs, as the Nez Perce'.

There is great debate over when, where and who sings these songs since they they are "tribal proprietary," meaning they belong to these tribes and are part of their oral history.

What if a song were composed to render in place of the duck and dive with similar beats?


Would this be disrespectful to the Nez Perce'? Would it be mocking the song that commorates of the 1877 Bighole Valley Battle and cannon fire?

Or would it be okay, since it does not have the same meaning as the actual song?


Whatcha' think?
__________________
Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

Last edited by WhoMe; 07-14-2006 at 04:22 PM..
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2006, 07:18 PM   #11
whip cream is better
 
kneegrow_native's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
kneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond repute
kneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In God's Country
Posts: 1,480
Credits: 80.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
What if a song were composed to render in place of the duck and dive with similar beats?


Would this be disrespectful to the Nez Perce'? Would it be mocking the song that commorates of the 1877 Bighole Valley Battle and cannon fire?

Or would it be okay, since it does not have the same meaning as the actual song?


Whatcha' think?
A friend of mine made up his own Duck -n- Dive song with the reasoning that he was tired of hearing and singing the same two songs.

Speaking for myself, I told him that it just didn't feel right. This song has a real special meaning, and to start whoring out the style like that just to accomodate a "hip" pow-wow crowd would be disrespectful. Especially considering that I have never, ever, ever, ever heard any of my elders even suggest, "hey guys, we need a new Duck -n- Dive."

But back to the original subject, I have never liked Duck -n- Dive being used for Prairie Chicken.
__________________
It is so sad that a family can torn apart by something as simple as a wild pack of dogs.
kneegrow_native is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-15-2006, 01:22 PM   #12
Boogie Monster
 
sookout sh'nob's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
sookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond repute
sookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond reputesookout sh'nob has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 682
Credits: 5,241.45
Savings: 0.00
One of the elders around here once gave a long speech about the duck and dive and it's history - he said it was stolen and we have no right to do it, but we were gunna do it anyhow. Then they danced - heh. It just don't get much funnier than that.

You know though, those songs I really like for Prairie Chicken Dancing are the ones that shake or ruffle for a little bit,when you do that shuffling charge step. Then they either double beat it or straight beat it, I forget the order - but they do all three of those beats.

Man those are some good songs. I wish I could hear them more.

edit: I also thought that a lot of good trick songs could scratch your duck and dive itch without having to deal with any of these thorny issues of morality and respect. Just sing that trick song for 'em! Mii sa gegit sa go.

Last edited by sookout sh'nob; 07-15-2006 at 01:25 PM..
sookout sh'nob is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2006, 05:46 PM   #13
As you can see...
 
ntownn8ive's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown!
Posts: 5,862
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 40.00
Savings: 1.00
This past weekend this one drum group jammed out their rendition of the duck-n-dive. The song wasn't bad and I'm sure their intentions were good, but they jammed it for the teen boy's tradish category. That just goes back to using the appropriate song for the appropriate occassion or persons. No one can stop anyone from bringing out a new song, apparently it is already being done, but at least reserve the song for Veterans.

Yet and still: prairie chickens and duck-n-dive- NO
__________________

...that's so true....so, so true...
ntownn8ive is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2006, 02:16 PM   #14
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 7,149
Credits: 11,554.70
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntownn8ive
This past weekend this one drum group jammed out their rendition of the duck-n-dive. The song wasn't bad and I'm sure their intentions were good, but they jammed it for the teen boy's tradish category. That just goes back to using the appropriate song for the appropriate occassion or persons. No one can stop anyone from bringing out a new song, apparently it is already being done, but at least reserve the song for Veterans.

Yet and still: prairie chickens and duck-n-dive- NO

ntown,

The reason I asked the question is that I have made a duck-and-dive song.

It has not been sung at a powwow just yet. I am wanting to be cautious and not offend.

I sing with a southern drum and normally we dont' sing for northern categories unless we are in the NE U.S., NW U.S., northern plains or Canada. When we do attend northern powwows, we sing whatever comes our way in drum order.

Again, I sing with a southern drum.

But, I have composed a song for each northern category just in case we are ever called upon.

So far we have been called upon to render: a chicken dance song, a double-step, a jingle dress side-step, jingle dress straight song, sneak up, owl dance, shawl straight song and crow hop.

Because we have not wanted to offend anyone, we have used our own compositions.
__________________
Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2006, 04:03 PM   #15
shaken' tailfeathers
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
oldstylechicken is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 58
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
well i think that the duck 'n' dive should be used only for the appropriate dance and not for the chicken dance, where i''m from we don't use the duck 'n' dive. We mostly use straight, trick, and shake songs for our chicken dancers in blackfoot country.
WhoMe likes this.

Last edited by oldstylechicken; 07-18-2006 at 04:08 PM..
oldstylechicken is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-19-2006, 10:50 AM   #16
SNAGNOMETRY 101
 
1badazzndn's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute1badazzndn has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: tha dirty south, and Powwow Country
Posts: 367
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
So far we have been called upon to render: a chicken dance song, a double-step, a jingle dress side-step, jingle dress straight song, sneak up, owl dance, shawl straight song and crow hop.

Because we have not wanted to offend anyone, we have used our own compositions.
Who-me....I have been taught that it is more than just acceptable to sing the old double-beat and duck n dive songs. In Fact, I was taught that it's dissrespectful to sing newly composed songs because those old songs have so much behind them. Even the side-steps, yes you can make new ones, but the older ones are still sung by many groups.

Its nice to know that there is a southern drum who is prepared for anything! It always crazy at a powwow in okla. when the center drum/head singer has to sing for a northern category.
1badazzndn is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-19-2006, 02:32 PM   #17
As you can see...
 
ntownn8ive's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
ntownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond reputentownn8ive has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: We get a lot of sun in Ntown!
Posts: 5,862
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 40.00
Savings: 1.00
As we travel and share songs and dances as we have for the past thousand years, it is inevitable, yet, honorable that everything has truly evolved to be intertribal. So, honor the chicken dance; sing the appropriate songs. Honor the Veterans and sing them the appropriate songs. Honor those that have welcomed you as their guest; share your songs with them and let them share theirs with you. If the Creator has given you the gift of composing songs, honor the Creator by singing them..........but quit singing the DND for inappropriate categories and dances!!
__________________

...that's so true....so, so true...

Last edited by ntownn8ive; 07-19-2006 at 02:33 PM.. Reason: oops
ntownn8ive is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-21-2006, 12:03 AM   #18
Singer/ Dancer
 
RedShield's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RedShield has a reputation beyond repute
RedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond reputeRedShield has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 13,373
Credits: 369.00
Savings: 1.00
When I lived out in the Pacific NW I always heard the DnD used for Men's Traditional, and the Chicken Dancers contesting in the category would dance to it, but mostly the Chicken Dancers/Round Bustle got their own songs, rarely did I see the DnD used for a Chicken song.

When I got back home (Ohio... I know, I know) I've heard the DnD used as an intertribal, grass dance and about everything else... and mostly sung wrong. The way I was taught is the DnD should always be sung 4 times with a tail, I've respected the men that taught me by always singing it that way... as for "new" duck and dives... I would never sing them... would be to me like singing a new Happy Dance song when there should only be one (if you don't know what the Happy Dance is, check out Wellpinit or Riverfront... it's a Spokane tribal song) there are certein songs that should be left alone in my opinion, and the DnD to me is one of those.

Just my 49 cents worth!

Paselo
__________________
I became a singer because I love to sing... and to feed my addiction to cough drops!
RedShield is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-21-2006, 02:20 AM   #19
Lovin' life,
 
Mato Winyan's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,450
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 260.00
Savings: 1.00
What I'd like to know.......what's wrong with passing a song? Me being an "oldster" I'm seeing that being done less and less anymore. If the committee hired a Northern drum as host and wants other songs sung............. let em hire a Southern drum to do em. Is it a matter of money or what? It just really does not make sense to me. I wouldn't hire a Baptist minister if I wanted last rites said for my dad. I wouldn't care if he could write his version of em or not.

What's wrong with teaching our younger ones this is our style and we're sticking to it? I really worry what things will be like in another 25 yrs....... 50 yrs........ etc. Anyone that has painted with oils knows that when you keep adding and changing and rearranging that after awhile you make the paint what they call "mud". It's all mixed up and you can't tell what colors were ever in it. That's how I see the powwows going.
__________________
"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume
Mato Winyan is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-21-2006, 09:47 AM   #20
Body By Commodities Baby!
 
littleredblanket's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
littleredblanket has much to be proud oflittleredblanket has much to be proud oflittleredblanket has much to be proud oflittleredblanket has much to be proud oflittleredblanket has much to be proud oflittleredblanket has much to be proud oflittleredblanket has much to be proud oflittleredblanket has much to be proud of
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio- But originally from WA state
Posts: 175
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 225.22
Growing up on the Spokane Rez in Washington, I listened at many pow-wows as my elders got up and spoke about how we used to chicken dance and that this style once died out almost completely. Then my uncle helped bring it back because he felt it was time for this dance to once again continue and now even living in Ohio I am seeing these people try to chicken dance yet no one over here seems to really know the significance behind the dance or what are the appropiate songs to sing for them.

As far as the duck and dive goes, I get extremely upset when I see this song being abused and disrespected by being sung for the wrong reasons and that there are people who think it is perfectly acceptable to replace this song with their own versions. Listening to my elders the story I was told at many pow-wows was that there was only one duck and dive and that this song is reserved for only the Men's Tradish. It was not to be used for fancy, grass, inter-tribals, or any other catagory. Over here in Ohio I especially get upset because they do not take the time to understand how important this song is to the people of the Pacific NW. It makes my heart sad to see how it has been corrupted and abused when I remember growing up hearing this song talked about and sung with the utmost respect and humility. In fact people have even seemed to stop standing in honor of this song when it is sung.

If my words are offensive I apologize but my heart wouldn't let me sit and be silent anymore. These are just my feelings on this subject and on the song that I hold in the utmost respect and regard.
__________________
Abs of Frybread and Buns of Commodity Cheese
littleredblanket is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Duck and Dive kneegrow_native Archives 38 09-25-2002 06:16 PM
What are these dances? CHEROSAGE Dancing 2 09-24-2002 01:25 AM
info Nice Indian Dancing 0 09-23-2002 12:12 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery