Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree51Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Ask PowWows.com Blessings! Seeking info on Pow Wow Dance Teams. Blessings! Seeking info on Pow Wow Dance Teams.

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-13-2017, 05:05 PM   #1
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Wink Blessings! Seeking info on Pow Wow Dance Teams.

Hello. I am Taino. I have been wanting to join a Pow Wow dance team for the longest time. Unfortunately, I have hit a snag in finding a team where I live. I live in Bergen County, New Jersey. If anyone knows about any Pow Wow dance teams in NJ that may be able to join, please give me some info. If there are none in New Jersey, would someone with info on how to start one can let me know how? I have been searching all through the internet on Pow Wow dance schools, and I have hit zero information. I am hoping that someone here could help me and guide me in the right direction.
Thank you all so much for your time. I appreciate it. Blessings, Liz Broken Arrow
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-13-2017, 05:55 PM   #2
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,589
Credits: 43,471.02
Savings: 0.00
Welcome to powwows.com!

I'm not sure what you mean by a team. Powwow dancing isn't really a team sport. Could you please explain?

As for classes, talk to the folks at the American Indian Community House in NYC. They may have classes. There is a program for children on Taino Dance and Music at the Heye this summer.
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2017, 01:07 AM   #3
Me & Eyes r doin' goot !
 
wardancer's Avatar
 
Items DevilPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: S.E.Kansas (again) LOL
Posts: 15,406
Credits: 45,923.27
Savings: 1.00
Hmmm.......Had me at "Blessings" LOL
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
wardancer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2017, 11:55 AM   #4
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 7,123
Credits: 10,535.06
Savings: 0.00
I know some powwow dance performing groups in the New Jersey area. What style of powwow dance do you do?
__________________
Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2017, 04:36 PM   #5
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Hi, I am sorry to confuse you. I did not mean "team" as in team sport. I meant team as in a group of dancers that rehearse together and participate in the Pow Wow's as a group together.

Thank you for the info. I will reach out to the American Indian Community House in NYC. I will also check out the Taino dance and music program at the Heye as well.

Thanks again. You've been so very helpful.

Blessings,
Liz


Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Welcome to powwows.com!

I'm not sure what you mean by a team. Powwow dancing isn't really a team sport. Could you please explain?

As for classes, talk to the folks at the American Indian Community House in NYC. They may have classes. There is a program for children on Taino Dance and Music at the Heye this summer.
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2017, 04:58 PM   #6
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Hi War Dancer,

I am glad I got you at "Blessings." LOL. I agree with your quote on "blood quantums are the governments way of breeding us out." I cannot tell you how upset that makes me. We have to prove who we are just to be who we are. For example: My younger son is going to college this coming Fall. He did not qualify for full financial aid, and the amount that my husband and I are responsible for "for his first semester" is a lot. An outrageous amount. So I had gone to the financial aid office to find out why since my son is Native American and he would qualified for full financial aid. At first they acted like they did not know what I was referring to. Then I mentioned the treaty with the US and the Natives. They were shocked that I knew that much. I guess they thought I was an idiot. LOL. Then they said, "Oh right. Does he have his ID card with his registration number." I asked if mine would suffice being that I am his mother. They said no, that he needs his own. So now, I had to go and order DNA test just for my son so that he could get his own ID card and registration number because now for you to get a card even though he's my son, he needs to have a DNA test on record. Colleges are ridiculous. That being said, my husband and I would still have to pay for his first semester and hopefully we can get all of this straightened out for his second semester. So I am with you with the blood quantum thing.

I am proud to be who I am. My son is proud to be who he is. No government can take that away from us. We do still exist and we are not going anywhere.

Where are you from?

Blessings,
Liz

Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
Hmmm.......Had me at "Blessings" LOL
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2017, 05:04 PM   #7
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Hi WhoMe,

Jingle Dance Style. Where in New Jersey are the powwow dance performing group that you know and how can I contact them? What area in New Jersey? I am in Bergen County New Jersey. In the Garfield area. Thank you.

Blessings,
Liz



Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe View Post
I know some powwow dance performing groups in the New Jersey area. What style of powwow dance do you do?
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-14-2017, 05:46 PM   #8
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,589
Credits: 43,471.02
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow View Post
...My younger son is going to college this coming Fall. He did not qualify for full financial aid, and the amount that my husband and I are responsible for "for his first semester" is a lot. An outrageous amount. So I had gone to the financial aid office to find out why since my son is Native American and he would qualified for full financial aid. At first they acted like they did not know what I was referring to. Then I mentioned the treaty with the US and the Natives....

I'm not aware of any treaty which promises Native people college tuition. (Was this a Bernie Sanders treaty? j/k) I think you may have been misinformed.

Individual tribes usually have some scholarships for qualifying members. The BIA and the IHS have a few. Various philanthropic organizations provide many. Churches provide a few more. Professional organization, like American Physical Society, American Chemical Society, American Medical Society, etc, have minority/diversity scholarships. Some Native people qualify for needs-based and/or merit-based financial aid, like any other student. But, there is no free ride just because you're Native.

I'll tell you what I was told and what I told Native young people when I was teaching college: Keep your grades up. Beat the bushes for any kind of scholarships/aid, don't focus solely on "Native scholarships" -- there are too few of them, even for the relatively small number of us that go on to higher ed. You'll get ahead by being the best and hardest working.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow View Post
...I had to go and order DNA test just for my son so that he could get his own ID card and registration number because now for you to get a card even though he's my son, he needs to have a DNA test on record....

I'm not sure where you're getting this information. Can you provide some documentation?
"Blood tests and DNA tests will not help an individual document his or her descent from a specific Federally recognized tribe or tribal community.

The BIA does not regulate businesses that perform such tests, and does not validate their findings nor accept their results as proof that an individual possesses blood quantum from a particular tribe. The only value blood tests and DNA tests hold for persons trying to trace ancestry to a particular tribe is that testing, if the tribe accepts it, can establish if an individual is biologically related to a tribal member...."
-- "A Guide to Tracing American Indian & Alaska Native Ancestry," Office of Public Affairs - Indian Affairs, 2015, pp 8-9.
I don't know of any tribe -- federally recognized, at least -- that uses DNA for anything other than paternity testing. To the best of my knowledge, you can't test your way into a CDIB or tribal enrollment. You might want to confirm this before you spend money on an expensive DNA test, that could be better spent on his textbooks. :)
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-15-2017, 08:05 PM   #9
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
I'm not aware of any treaty which promises Native people college tuition. (Was this a Bernie Sanders treaty? j/k) I think you may have been misinformed.

Individual tribes usually have some scholarships for qualifying members. The BIA and the IHS have a few. Various philanthropic organizations provide many. Churches provide a few more. Professional organization, like American Physical Society, American Chemical Society, American Medical Society, etc, have minority/diversity scholarships. Some Native people qualify for needs-based and/or merit-based financial aid, like any other student. But, there is no free ride just because you're Native.

I'll tell you what I was told and what I told Native young people when I was teaching college: Keep your grades up. Beat the bushes for any kind of scholarships/aid, don't focus solely on "Native scholarships" -- there are too few of them, even for the relatively small number of us that go on to higher ed. You'll get ahead by being the best and hardest working.






I'm not sure where you're getting this information. Can you provide some documentation?

Hi, I wasn't aware of the treaty either until someone brought it up to my attention when I had mentioned that my younger son is going to college and that I had to get his financial aid paperwork together. About a month after when I mentioned that my son did not qualify for full aid, this person told me about the treaty, and told me to march back into that financial aid office and request what my son would be entitled to as a Native. He told me that since I am Native American, my son is obviously Native American too and that he is entitled to this aid. I too asked him for proof so that I wouldn't look like an idiot going into the financial aid office. I can tell you one thing. I filed my sons FAFSA forms online. When it got to the section when you have to click on your race, I put Native American. It did not let me go further than that because the moment you click on Native American, the system is set up so that you have to enter your tribe registration number from your id card. He does not have one, so I clicked on "Other" so that I could proceed with his application. I did not know why it would stop me there and not let me go further, but I couldn't proceed until I had clicked on "other." There I put "Native American: Taino." Anyhow, when the person that mentioned the treaty to me and how there is an understanding with our government and us Natives, and that my son would get full aid, he provided this link to me so that I could see for myself. It was then, and only then that I went back to the financial aid office.
FinAid | Other Types of Aid | Native American Students Not in my state, but in other states: https://nativeyouth2college.org/reso...ican-students/

So my friend told me that had my son his CDIB tribal registration Card when I clicked on the race section of his FASFA application, he would have gotten covered for full financial aid. I messaged him before replying this message so that he can send me the link to the documention on http://www.whitehouse.gov
I want a copy of that treaty for my records. By the way, I am not trying to get a free ride for my son.
He works harder than anyone else to get to where he's at and where he's going. My son is 22 years old and he has Autism. Nothing is easy for him. We are of low to moderate income and the college he's going to is expensive for us. We cannot afford to be in debt with student loans for him because he did not qualify for full financial aid. If he can get full aid based on our race, that would not only be a blessing for him,
but for our family. It took us forever to pay off my older son's student loans and I would hate for that to happen to us again. If we have no choice, we have no choice, but until the Fall rolls around,
if we can get some type of aid to help us pay for our sons education,
then I will do whatever needs to be done. As hard as he worked to get to this point in his life, he deserves a stress free college education without worrying on how we're going to pay for it.


"Blood tests and DNA tests will not help an individual document his or her descent from a specific Federally recognized tribe or tribal community.

The BIA does not regulate businesses that perform such tests, and does not validate their findings nor accept their results as proof that an individual possesses blood quantum from a particular tribe. The only value blood tests and DNA tests hold for persons trying to trace ancestry to a particular tribe is that testing, if the tribe accepts it, can establish if an individual is biologically related to a tribal member...."
-- "A Guide to Tracing American Indian & Alaska Native Ancestry," Office of Public Affairs - Indian Affairs, 2015, pp 8-9.
I don't know of any tribe -- federally recognized, at least -- that uses DNA for anything other than paternity testing. To the best of my knowledge, you can't test your way into a CDIB or tribal enrollment. You might want to confirm this before you spend money on an expensive DNA test, that could be better spent on his textbooks. :)
I know that the Cherokee Nation requires your blood quantum for tribal registration. But all Nations require blood quantum for membership. There is no other way around it. It's all due to the government meddling in Native affairs. Read this which will explain better than I ever could. Blood Quantum

Thanks for the info on "A Guide to Tracing American Indian & Alaska Native Ancestry," Office of Public Affairs - Indian Affairs, 2015, pp 8-9." Unfortunately, there are too many contradictions when researching our history out there. One research outlet will say this, another that, and sometimes we do not know which is accurate, which is not accurate. Are all accurate with some differences, are some made up? We don't know. Also, unfortunately my grandparents, who are both Taino, passed away, so I can't ask them to give me more info on all of this. I feel bad that now my son has to prove who he is even though I am Taino. It's not good enough. He feels bad and it's hard to explain to him. You see, he is autistic and it takes him longer to understand certain things than your average kid. This is why I am doing all I can to just submerge myself in our family traditions and start participating in our tribes events, ceremonies, etc. He needs this, and I need him to continue to carry it over to his future kids. Plus my older son and my grandson need this as well. My family's tribe has gotten extremely small from what other members of my family told me this evening, and I cannot let that happen. I won't. My parents had two daughters, but God blessed me with sons and a grandson so far that can help grow our tribe again. I don't know if that makes sense to you, if you understand. I love my family, my heritage and I am proud of who I am.
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-15-2017, 09:39 PM   #10
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,589
Credits: 43,471.02
Savings: 0.00
First, I apologize. I used free-ride to mean full tuition coverage, but I can see where it probably came off as insulting. Sorry.

I was a fair-skinned, mixed-blood before was cool. I've had a personal and academic interest in the definition, construction and assertion of Native identity for 35+ years. I'm familiar with most of the arguments. I could probably bury you in more reading material than you'd want to tackle, without even going into the room where I keep most of my books and files. Over the years, I've talked and thought about the matter so much I make make most of my relatives and friends, and all the powwows.com regulars run for cover, LOL.

Let me correct a few misconceptions. I'll even provide authoritative references :)

1) A CDIB is not the same as tribal enrollment. The standards for a CDIB are set by the BIA. You must prove -- with genealogical documentation, birth certificates, etc not DNA -- lineal descent from person/s "who were enrolled with a federally recognized Indian tribe or whose names appear on the designated base rolls of a federally recognized Indian tribe."

CDIB Application & Instructions, 2017

Federal Register, Jan 2017: Indian Entities Recognized and Eligible To Receive Services From the United States Bureau of Indian Affairs

2) Enrollment standards are not set by the feds. They are set by the tribe. They can be changed by the tribe. Not every tribe uses blood quantum, some use lineal descent or some combination of requirements. In some cases, membership may only pass through the maternal or paternal lines. There may be a residency requirement.

Dept of the Interior:Tribal Enrollment

NARF: National Indian Law Library -- Enrollment

The definition of membership is a fundamental assertion of tribal sovereignty. Our nations did this before the lost white guy in the Santa Maria washed up on our shores. . An Oglala couldn't just self-identify as a Pawnee, without risking some really unpleasant piercings. Today is no different.

3) BIE grant money is not guaranteed to Natives who meet the federal recognition and need requirements.

BIE HEGP information packet

Treaty promises of educational service were generally elementary and secondary education, and agricultural and domestic training. The Indian nations did not enter into treaties with states. Treaties are nation to nation agreements. States aren't on the same level. This may be seem like I'm beating a dead semantic horse, but treaties are important to Indian people. They are tangible evidence that we were regarded as sovereign, national entities -- Chief Justice Marshall (the first one) be damned.

American Bar Association -- Marshall to Marshall: The Supreme Court's changing stance on tribal sovereignty

Most of those "states" listed on the the link you shared, are in fact provisions provided by specific institutions. These grants/tuition waivers/scholarships were often set forth in founding documents of the school. More than a few of the Ivy League east coast schools started with a mission to educate Native youth, Dartmouth, Harvard, and William and Mary spring to mind as examples.

Natives at William and Mary

Natives at Dartmouth

Natives at Harvard

Last edited by OLChemist; 07-15-2017 at 11:52 PM..
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-15-2017, 09:59 PM   #11
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,589
Credits: 43,471.02
Savings: 0.00
The above said, please understand I'm not arguing your authenticity. Too many people treat this kind of conversations as a zero-sum game.

I'm going to give you Rose's unsolicited advice for the unenrolled mixed-blood:

Paper doesn't make an Indian. Indians make other Indians. By inclusion in and recognition by their families and communities. By cradle to grave enculturation.

Indians recognize other Indians by their actions. If you don't act and think Indian, no card will make you one. You could tape it in the middle of your forehead and Indian people will just wonder why a non-Indian person is wandering around with paper taped to their head, LOL.

If you're going to claim Indian identity, then quit talking about it. Just do it. Go take an elder some groceries, mow their lawn and listen to them talk. Clean the kitchen at the powwow. Do what your Indian ancestresses did. Take care of your kin and community.

Keep a humble heart. Listen more than talk. Follow more than lead. Learn your language and customs. Never be an expert. Remember the Creator's original instructions guide, rather than your will.

If you do it right, you'll never have to tell others you're Native, because they'll know.
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-16-2017, 10:36 AM   #12
Me & Eyes r doin' goot !
 
wardancer's Avatar
 
Items DevilPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: S.E.Kansas (again) LOL
Posts: 15,406
Credits: 45,923.27
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow View Post
Hi War Dancer,

I am glad I got you at "Blessings." LOL. I agree with your quote on "blood quantums are the governments way of breeding us out." I cannot tell you how upset that makes me.

Where are you from?

Blessings,
Liz
Greetings and welcome to powwows.calm ! I was really being sarcastic , sorry , folks I know around ndn country don't go around saying "blessings" It's kinda stereotypical wannabe/wishiwas speak ! No offense , that's just how I see it ! I'm from western Oklahoma. The Southern Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes of Oklahoma.
I hope you can find the answers you seek........or maybe the right questions to ask !
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
wardancer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2017, 01:59 PM   #13
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
Greetings and welcome to powwows.calm ! I was really being sarcastic , sorry , folks I know around ndn country don't go around saying "blessings" It's kinda stereotypical wannabe/wishiwas speak ! No offense , that's just how I see it ! I'm from western Oklahoma. The Southern Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes of Oklahoma.
I hope you can find the answers you seek........or maybe the right questions to ask !
Hi wardancer, No offense taken. I say "blessings", "have a blessed day", and "God bless you" to everyone. I am a became a Born Again Christian years go. I, along with my husband...we're ordained pastors and the prison chaplains of our church. We preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to inmates in the correctional facilities, and we visit hospitals and pray for the sick, and wherever there is a need. For example and not limited to disaster areas. Wherever we are needed we are there to provide comfort and answers on our Creator. Wherever I go they do ask what I am. I always tell them that I am Native American. My grandparents were Tiano, my mom, me, my children, etc. The thing is that my grandparents passed away before I was born and my mother wasn't any help filling me in on my grandparents tribe. When my grandparents passed away, my mom moved to New York. My mother has dementia, so trying to get info from her is like pulling teeth, so to speak. My dad passed away, and shortly after his mom (my other grandmother), which I could not speak to before she passed away because she was still in PR living amongst her tribe and they had no phones. I had tried sending messages, but no one would get back to me nor speak to me because I am daughter of the rebel child who moved to NY when her mama passed away. Since my dad passed away when I was young, I couldn't get answers from him either. My goal has always been to go to my grandparents and parents Island to get the answers that I am looking for from my relatives who I know are still there, but finances has not allowed that to happen. Most of our household finances goes on caring for my youngest son who has autism. Life here and trying to get answers from my family tribe is quite complicated. So I am left on my own looking for answers through different outlets, such as this one here. Thanks for listening. So you're mixed between tribes huh? I'm sorry. I say sorry because I know it must be difficult for you. Most tribes don't accept people from missed tribes. Do you find yourself fighting to prove who you are?
It must be exhausting. At the risk of sounding redundant, Have a blessed day.
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2017, 02:23 PM   #14
Me & Eyes r doin' goot !
 
wardancer's Avatar
 
Items DevilPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: S.E.Kansas (again) LOL
Posts: 15,406
Credits: 45,923.27
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow View Post
So you're mixed between tribes huh? I'm sorry. I say sorry because I know it must be difficult for you. Most tribes don't accept people from missed tribes. Do you find yourself fighting to prove who you are?
It must be exhausting. At the risk of sounding redundant, Have a blessed day.
LOL Don't be sorry for me ! The Southern Cheyennes and The Southern Arapahoes traveled together. The Government lumped us together. Regardless of that I identify as Cheyenne and no one questions it ! My family is why, even as a "mixed blood",I am accepted. I grew up white , but no one would know that now ! I feel bad for you ! The fact that you went away from your peoples belief system and decided to embrace the enemies brainwashing(christianity) is sad ! I will pray to The Creator for you to find what you are missing ! Good luck
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
wardancer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2017, 02:48 PM   #15
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
First, I apologize. I used free-ride to mean full tuition coverage, but I can see where it probably came off as insulting. Sorry.

I was a fair-skinned, mixed-blood before was cool. I've had a personal and academic interest in the definition, construction and assertion of Native identity for 35+ years. I'm familiar with most of the arguments. I could probably bury you in more reading material than you'd want to tackle, without even going into the room where I keep most of my books and files. Over the years, I've talked and thought about the matter so much I make make most of my relatives and friends, and all the powwows.com regulars run for cover, LOL.

Let me correct a few misconceptions. I'll even provide authoritative references :)

1) A CDIB is not the same as tribal enrollment. The standards for a CDIB are set by the BIA. You must prove -- with genealogical documentation, birth certificates, etc not DNA -- lineal descent from person/s "who were enrolled with a federally recognized Indian tribe or whose names appear on the designated base rolls of a federally recognized Indian tribe."

CDIB Application & Instructions, 2017

Federal Register, Jan 2017: Indian Entities Recognized and Eligible To Receive Services From the United States Bureau of Indian Affairs

2) Enrollment standards are not set by the feds. They are set by the tribe. They can be changed by the tribe. Not every tribe uses blood quantum, some use lineal descent or some combination of requirements. In some cases, membership may only pass through the maternal or paternal lines. There may be a residency requirement.

Dept of the Interior:Tribal Enrollment

NARF: National Indian Law Library -- Enrollment

The definition of membership is a fundamental assertion of tribal sovereignty. Our nations did this before the lost white guy in the Santa Maria washed up on our shores. . An Oglala couldn't just self-identify as a Pawnee, without risking some really unpleasant piercings. Today is no different.

3) BIE grant money is not guaranteed to Natives who meet the federal recognition and need requirements.

BIE HEGP information packet

Treaty promises of educational service were generally elementary and secondary education, and agricultural and domestic training. The Indian nations did not enter into treaties with states. Treaties are nation to nation agreements. States aren't on the same level. This may be seem like I'm beating a dead semantic horse, but treaties are important to Indian people. They are tangible evidence that we were regarded as sovereign, national entities -- Chief Justice Marshall (the first one) be damned.

American Bar Association -- Marshall to Marshall: The Supreme Court's changing stance on tribal sovereignty

Most of those "states" listed on the the link you shared, are in fact provisions provided by specific institutions. These grants/tuition waivers/scholarships were often set forth in founding documents of the school. More than a few of the Ivy League east coast schools started with a mission to educate Native youth, Dartmouth, Harvard, and William and Mary spring to mind as examples.

Natives at William and Mary

Natives at Dartmouth

Natives at Harvard
No worries. No offense taken. I don't offend easily lol. I am learning as I go and part of this thread is to learn, so I'm all for whatever lessons I can get from here. Thank you for all of the reading links. I have read and I understand more now.

As for tribal enrollment, I wanted to enroll my son through me since I am full blooded Taino, however, they did request the DNA test for my son and that's one of the reasons why I am a little peeved. He's not a distant descendant. He is as much full blooded as I am. They make this process so difficult. I do understand that anyone can say they are Native American and not be, but here you have authentic full blooded Taino's that have to prove themselves. It's very frustrating.

I understand now about the financial aid and grants for Natives. I am already searching for other avenues for grants and scholarships for my son and I found a few that are for autistic people, so I have applied for those for him. I can only hope and pray that he qualifies.

Oh and don't worry, you're not coming off snooty or anything, and you're not overwhelming me with links and reading material. I actually welcome it and thank you for schooling me because through you I have learned things that I had not been aware of before, so thank you and feel free to keep it coming. Be blessed.
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2017, 02:57 PM   #16
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
LOL Don't be sorry for me ! The Southern Cheyennes and The Southern Arapahoes traveled together. The Government lumped us together. Regardless of that I identify as Cheyenne and no one questions it ! My family is why, even as a "mixed blood",I am accepted. I grew up white , but no one would know that now ! I feel bad for you ! The fact that you went away from your peoples belief system and decided to embrace the enemies brainwashing(christianity) is sad ! I will pray to The Creator for you to find what you are missing ! Good luck
I'm so happy to hear that you were and are accepted.
Don't feel bad for me. I don't consider myself brainwashed by the enemy.
We all believe in the only "one" creator, "God." I don't worship foreign God's. I think you have a misconception on Christianity and that is the from the enemy. See, a lot of religions call themselves Christian and they are really not. They go one deceiving people making them believe that their are other God's and these deceived people believe them and go on to worship those foreign God's. That's not me at all.
I worship the only one true God. The only one God that created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. That is another thing that I am always forced to prove. "What kind of Christian am I?" And I tell them what I tell them what I just told you. But people believe that there is more than one God and there isn't.
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2017, 03:09 PM   #17
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
LOL Don't be sorry for me ! The Southern Cheyennes and The Southern Arapahoes traveled together. The Government lumped us together. Regardless of that I identify as Cheyenne and no one questions it ! My family is why, even as a "mixed blood",I am accepted. I grew up white , but no one would know that now ! I feel bad for you ! The fact that you went away from your peoples belief system and decided to embrace the enemies brainwashing(christianity) is sad ! I will pray to The Creator for you to find what you are missing ! Good luck
I'm so happy to hear that you were and are accepted.
Don't feel bad for me. I don't consider myself brainwashed by the enemy.
We all believe in the only "one" creator, "God." I don't worship foreign God's. I think you have a misconception on Christianity and that is the from the enemy. See, a lot of religions call themselves Christian and they are really not. They go one deceiving people making them believe that their are other God's and these deceived people believe them and go on to worship those foreign God's. That's not me at all.
I worship the only one true God. The only one God that created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. That is another thing that I am always forced to prove. "What kind of Christian am I?" And I tell them what I tell them what I just told you. But people believe that there is more than one God and there isn't. I think you know that,
right? I hold a Masters Degree in Pastoral Ministry. I worked my hump off in study because I did not want to be deceived. I never walked away from my families belief's. I was never really taught my families belief system. All that I have learned so far has been through study and research. In my study and research I have learned that we all believe in the one Creator, God. Answer me this: Do you believe that there is one God? One God who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in it, including us humans and animals alike? I ask because as a Christian,
that is our belief. We respect and honor earth too. I mean,
God created it for us. How can we not honor and respect something that God created for us? I want to learn more about my family's belief's.
I don't think it will be any different than what I believe. Could you share with me your beliefs. I am here to learn from everyone. Thank you for sharing.
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2017, 03:33 PM   #18
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
The above said, please understand I'm not arguing your authenticity. Too many people treat this kind of conversations as a zero-sum game.

I'm going to give you Rose's unsolicited advice for the unenrolled mixed-blood:

Paper doesn't make an Indian. Indians make other Indians. By inclusion in and recognition by their families and communities. By cradle to grave enculturation.

Indians recognize other Indians by their actions. If you don't act and think Indian, no card will make you one. You could tape it in the middle of your forehead and Indian people will just wonder why a non-Indian person is wandering around with paper taped to their head, LOL.

If you're going to claim Indian identity, then quit talking about it. Just do it. Go take an elder some groceries, mow their lawn and listen to them talk. Clean the kitchen at the powwow. Do what your Indian ancestresses did. Take care of your kin and community.

Keep a humble heart. Listen more than talk. Follow more than lead. Learn your language and customs. Never be an expert. Remember the Creator's original instructions guide, rather than your will.

If you do it right, you'll never have to tell others you're Native, because they'll know.
Thank you for these Words of Wisdom (Rose). I never feel offended and I welcome these conversations. I agree with you on that a paper doesn't make you Inidan. Indians make Indians and that's my family. My grandparents, my parents, my sister and me, and my children. I am not trying to defend my authenticity so much per say. I know who I am. I know I'm full blooded Taino. My grandparents were, my mom, me and so on, I know I keep repeating myself. My apologies, but the lineage continues even though my mom moved to NY when her mom passed away. Even though my mom left, that doesn't mean that one stops being who they are. If you're black, and move to a white country, and you have kids in that country, they're still black lol. Probably a poor choice in comparison. Sorry. It's all I could think of this quickly. But I think you get what I am trying to say.

It's just frustrating when filling out some type of application, and the moment you click on Native American, you're asked to prove who you are. They don't care what you look like, whether you look Native or not, you are still forced to prove who you are in the USA. I look Native, my kids look Native. And of course it's in our blood, but that's like asking an Asian person who clearly you can see is Asian, to prove that they are Asian. It is ridiculous, and also offensive to some degree.

Oh and what you said about, "If you're going to claim Indian identity, then quit talking about it. Just do it. Go take an elder some groceries, mow their lawn and listen to them talk. Clean the kitchen at the powwow. Do what your Indian ancestresses did. Take care of your kin and community."), yeah, we already do that without claiming anything. It's just who we are as a family. We are the type that would give you the shirt off of our backs and ask for absolutely nothing in return. We are a humble people. I am no expert, to say the least. I am here to learn. And if I can contribute some sort of knowledge myself, then by all means, I will.

As for learning about my family's tribe customs, yes, I am doing my research, asking loads of questions, and learning. Now as for learning the language, that is one more goal that I am determined to meet. For our Creator, yes, it's never my will. It's always His will. When I pray, I always say, "Not my will, buy Your will be done." Why? Because I am nothing without Him. He created me and breathed life into me. He didn't create us for ourselves. He created us for His honor and glory. Thank you so much again for your wisdom and expertise. I do appreciate your time. I have taught me huge lessons in this short period of time. Have a blessed afternoon.
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2017, 03:51 PM   #19
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 7,123
Credits: 10,535.06
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow View Post
Hi WhoMe,

Jingle Dance Style. Where in New Jersey are the powwow dance performing group that you know and how can I contact them? What area in New Jersey? I am in Bergen County New Jersey. In the Garfield area. Thank you.

Blessings,
Liz

Google: Red Hawk Native American Dancers or Red Blanket dancers
LizBrokenArrow likes this.
__________________
Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2017, 03:40 PM   #20
Liz Broken Arrow
 
LizBrokenArrow's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LizBrokenArrow is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 22
Credits: 463.33
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe View Post
Google: Red Hawk Native American Dancers or Red Blanket dancers
Thank you so much. Found them. Will be contacting them asap. I appreciate it. Have a blessed day.
WhoMe likes this.
LizBrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
art, dance, music, pow wows, regalia


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oklahoma Thread: Goot Men and goot looking women CandaePrincess Chit Chat 7208 03-23-2017 12:26 PM
Encyclopedia version of the Gourd Dance Josiah Gourd Dance 19 03-01-2014 06:01 PM
Have you ever been to a Pow wow?/I dance Cinkala Poems 8 03-08-2012 12:03 PM
Pow Wow expresses cultural heritage of regional tribes Paul G Pow Wow Talk 0 09-20-2005 12:07 PM
Pow Wow PhotoContest Paul G News and Announcements 15 05-24-2003 12:14 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery