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Old 07-19-2017, 03:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by WhoMe View Post
Google: Red Hawk Native American Dancers or Red Blanket dancers
I replied and my reply did post.
Thank you for the info. I have looked them up, found them, and I will be reaching out to them. Have a blessed day. God bless you.
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I am looking to join a Pow Wow dance team in Bergen County New Jersey or surrounding area. Dance Style: Jingle Dancing.



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Old 07-19-2017, 04:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow View Post
I'm so happy to hear that you were and are accepted.
Don't feel bad for me. I don't consider myself brainwashed by the enemy.
We all believe in the only "one" creator, "God." I don't worship foreign God's. I think you have a misconception on Christianity and that is the from the enemy. See, a lot of religions call themselves Christian and they are really not. They go one deceiving people making them believe that their are other God's and these deceived people believe them and go on to worship those foreign God's. That's not me at all.
I worship the only one true God. The only one God that created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. That is another thing that I am always forced to prove. "What kind of Christian am I?" And I tell them what I tell them what I just told you. But people believe that there is more than one God and there isn't.
WHOA! Hold on sister. This is NOT the place for this. I mean you no offense. I am also a Christian. But this is just NOT the place for this.

You told Wardancer that he had a misconception of Christianity. He told you his truth. I view your statement is an invalidation of his experiences and belief.

P.S. There are many instances where ("GULP") Christianity was indeed used as a means of ABUSES and ATROCITIES by the "enemy" of the Native peoples. That is a fact. It is a good and wise thing for us Christian people to pause long enough to hear those stories and let them pierce our hearts so that our lips are sealed with the love we claim. And we guard the Faith that it never be used that way again.

As a Christian sister, I invite you to do some reading and studying on the atrocities done in the name of Christianity to the native people. In some folks' very real perspective, our Faith was and is the faith of their enemy. Fact. Think about it.

If you believe what you said to Wardancer ( that you both worship the same Creator) then let it go and trust it.
S
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:04 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow View Post
I replied and my reply did post.
Please note this particular forum is moderated. Your posts must be approved before appearing.
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:29 PM   #24
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"And not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive."
-- Titus 2:10 (NIV)

"Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel."
-- Philippians 1:27 (NIV)

"In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."
-- Matthew 5:16 (NIV)


Sadly, many in the history of the Body of Christ in America failed to adorn the Gospel as instructed.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
"And not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive."
-- Titus 2:10 (NIV)

"Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel."
-- Philippians 1:27 (NIV)

"In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."
-- Matthew 5:16 (NIV)


Sadly, many in the history of the Body of Christ in America failed to adorn the Gospel as instructed.
Great use of scripture. Makes a powerful recap.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:25 PM   #26
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Alright , for those not as close to me as some I will explain my thoughts !
!. I never intended this to turn into a religious discussion.
2. Some of you think I don't understand "christianity". I do

I grew up as most middle class white farm kid. Went to church , learned to work. I lost 2 step dads and moved a lot. My mother had divorced my Pop when I was 4 and took me to Missouri from S. Cali. I grew up in a pretty religious family. My Grandfather was a lay minister , my uncle a Deacon , my Grampa's brother was a Bishop , my auntie married a minister , etc , etc. All good Methodists. After we lost my 2nd stepdad my mom joined some off the wall church that went to church on Saturday , worshiped Old Testament Holy Days and so on. I got into that as a young teen and studied hard. I know what the Bible says! Then I grew up ! Like all teens I rebelled. I left home and searched out my father's side of our family. The ndn side.The first place I ever felt like I belonged was at our family's camp at our tribes homecoming powwow. So then I had to study and learn , to attempt to belong. I listened to the Elders , helped around camp , used my truck to haul trash , hauled tipi poles for a Chief from out of state. I met all my relatives from that ndn side.It took nearly 4 years for me to step into the arena as a dancer.(I looked pitiful)It took another 7 to feel like I actually belonged and I can't even remember when folks started respecting me.I learned our ways , our true ways! I dance and I pray. I've sweat and I learn from Elders. Now , here I am , just an old guy with opinions !

The Bible : a book made up from translated scrolls that were found in caves , written in a dead language , decyphered by language experts into languages that could then be translated ,then re-translated into many languages. Then King James hired a bunch of translators to give us one of the most common versions. On top of that , to get people to accept the "religion" they incorporated all the pagan holidays from all the other world beliefs into so called "christianity" Easter and Passover are 2 examples one if a fertility celebration and the other depicts the escape of Israelites from Egypt. Christmas is a Sami celebration. Religious scholars disagree , but most think Christ was born in the fall , although some say the spring. Not to mention the whole resurrection thing....really ? Good Friday Christ is crucified and put into the tomb and raises 3 days and nights later on Passover sunday morning ??? Must be new math !

I'm done for now. Sorry , I really didn't want to be an azz about it. I pray to one Creator. I know and understand Cheyenne ways.......and white man ways. My Great Grandfather sat on the hill and watched the Little Big Horn fight. He was 10 years old. My 3rd Great Grandfather was killed at Sand Creek.
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 07-19-2017, 09:38 PM   #27
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I never intended this to turn into a religious discussion.
You know me. I never pass up a chance to get the last word, LOL. I'll return to our original programming.
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Old 07-20-2017, 12:03 AM   #28
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We both understand the bigger picture ! Have a great evening my friend !Sorry my patience ran out......probably the pain ! Makes me grumpy !
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
We both understand the bigger picture ! Have a great evening my friend !Sorry my patience ran out......probably the pain ! Makes me grumpy !
sorry war dancer. I was not intending to speak for you or defend you. I do not know you or your views or your experiences either. I merely meant to approach the issue with a poster. please accept my apologies if I overstepped my bounds.
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Please note this particular forum is moderated. Your posts must be approved before appearing.
Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Thanks for the fyi.
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Peace and Blessings,
Liz Broken Arrow

I am looking to join a Pow Wow dance team in Bergen County New Jersey or surrounding area. Dance Style: Jingle Dancing.



God our Creator #1 in all we do always.
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:45 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by solitare View Post
WHOA! Hold on sister. This is NOT the place for this. I mean you no offense. I am also a Christian. But this is just NOT the place for this.

You told Wardancer that he had a misconception of Christianity. He told you his truth. I view your statement is an invalidation of his experiences and belief.

P.S. There are many instances where ("GULP") Christianity was indeed used as a means of ABUSES and ATROCITIES by the "enemy" of the Native peoples. That is a fact. It is a good and wise thing for us Christian people to pause long enough to hear those stories and let them pierce our hearts so that our lips are sealed with the love we claim. And we guard the Faith that it never be used that way again.

As a Christian sister, I invite you to do some reading and studying on the atrocities done in the name of Christianity to the native people. In some folks' very real perspective, our Faith was and is the faith of their enemy. Fact. Think about it.

If you believe what you said to Wardancer ( that you both worship the same Creator) then let it go and trust it.
S
Oh my. I am so sorry. I did not mean to offend anyone, and I did not mean to invalidate what wardancer was feeling. That is why, if you re-read what I wrote to him, you can see that I said "Christians who claim that they are Christian, but are not." I do know the histories of what happened to my ancestors in the name of Christianity. Those were not true Christians. My ancestors faced atrocities that no one should have ever faced. You misunderstood what I said and for that I do apologize, but please re-read my post. There are many who call themselves Christians but are not. They use the Christian faith to do horrendous things and that is not right for us true Christians who follow the Word of God. I hold a Masters in Pastoral Ministry. So when I tell you that I have busted my hump studying for years, I have. I know what went on. I know what my family has gone through. I have studied beyond what the University has taught me. I went beyond my schooling to learn more about Native histories. I needed to know about what I wasn't being taught. I would ask questions in class and the response would be, "this isn't the class for that." So I did my own study on Christianity and Native Americans. I am really sorry. I apologize to wardancer. I meant no disrespect. I was just trying to explain the difference between fake Christians and real Christians and I do repent if it came off offensive. Wardancer I am truly sorry.
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Peace and Blessings,
Liz Broken Arrow

I am looking to join a Pow Wow dance team in Bergen County New Jersey or surrounding area. Dance Style: Jingle Dancing.



God our Creator #1 in all we do always.
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
"And not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive."
-- Titus 2:10 (NIV)

"Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel."
-- Philippians 1:27 (NIV)

"In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."
-- Matthew 5:16 (NIV)


Sadly, many in the history of the Body of Christ in America failed to adorn the Gospel as instructed.
As I stated to the other sister, I truly apologize if my comment came off the wrong way and I apologize to wardancer. It was never the intention of my heart. I don't think my comment was read completely as I was trying to explain the differences between the fake vs real Christians. My family faced atrocities too. I would never intentionally invalidate what my family nor what every Native American ancestor went through in the name of Christianity. I am not ignorant to what happened in those days nor what we still go through now. I have been misunderstood. Please please re-read again my post. You will see how I was just trying to explain the differences. I did so only because he claimed that as a Christian I have been brainwashed and that I walked away from my family's belief. I was just explaining. Now everyone is offended and took my post, my comment out of context. Again, my apologies.
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Peace and Blessings,
Liz Broken Arrow

I am looking to join a Pow Wow dance team in Bergen County New Jersey or surrounding area. Dance Style: Jingle Dancing.



God our Creator #1 in all we do always.
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solitare View Post
Great use of scripture. Makes a powerful recap.
Again, I have been misunderstood and my comment taken out of context. I am not ignorant to what happened to our ancestors. I was merely explaining myself because wardancer claimed that I was a brainwashed Christian when I let it be known that I am a Christian. There will always be someone to take a persons comments out of context and make it sound like it wasn't meant. If you re-read my comment, I was explaining myself and the differences between a true and fake Christian. Not coo Solitaire. If you knew who I truly am, and knew how humble, caring, compassionate and giving I am, you would have never taken my comment out of context and created drama where there should not have been any. The Word of God is not to be argued or disputed. However, we are to be the light within darkness and I had every right to explain myself to wardancer since he had his thoughts wrong about me and my faith. You said that you are a Christian too right? Then you should also be that light within darkness. Before creating drama on someone's comments, re-read it first to make sure you understood what you read, and ask the person first where they were going with their comment before creating drama. We all have history, and we all have feelings and beliefs here. Next time, ask first.Smh.
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Peace and Blessings,
Liz Broken Arrow

I am looking to join a Pow Wow dance team in Bergen County New Jersey or surrounding area. Dance Style: Jingle Dancing.



God our Creator #1 in all we do always.
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
Alright , for those not as close to me as some I will explain my thoughts !
!. I never intended this to turn into a religious discussion.
2. Some of you think I don't understand "christianity". I do

I grew up as most middle class white farm kid. Went to church , learned to work. I lost 2 step dads and moved a lot. My mother had divorced my Pop when I was 4 and took me to Missouri from S. Cali. I grew up in a pretty religious family. My Grandfather was a lay minister , my uncle a Deacon , my Grampa's brother was a Bishop , my auntie married a minister , etc , etc. All good Methodists. After we lost my 2nd stepdad my mom joined some off the wall church that went to church on Saturday , worshiped Old Testament Holy Days and so on. I got into that as a young teen and studied hard. I know what the Bible says! Then I grew up ! Like all teens I rebelled. I left home and searched out my father's side of our family. The ndn side.The first place I ever felt like I belonged was at our family's camp at our tribes homecoming powwow. So then I had to study and learn , to attempt to belong. I listened to the Elders , helped around camp , used my truck to haul trash , hauled tipi poles for a Chief from out of state. I met all my relatives from that ndn side.It took nearly 4 years for me to step into the arena as a dancer.(I looked pitiful)It took another 7 to feel like I actually belonged and I can't even remember when folks started respecting me.I learned our ways , our true ways! I dance and I pray. I've sweat and I learn from Elders. Now , here I am , just an old guy with opinions !

The Bible : a book made up from translated scrolls that were found in caves , written in a dead language , decyphered by language experts into languages that could then be translated ,then re-translated into many languages. Then King James hired a bunch of translators to give us one of the most common versions. On top of that , to get people to accept the "religion" they incorporated all the pagan holidays from all the other world beliefs into so called "christianity" Easter and Passover are 2 examples one if a fertility celebration and the other depicts the escape of Israelites from Egypt. Christmas is a Sami celebration. Religious scholars disagree , but most think Christ was born in the fall , although some say the spring. Not to mention the whole resurrection thing....really ? Good Friday Christ is crucified and put into the tomb and raises 3 days and nights later on Passover sunday morning ??? Must be new math !

I'm done for now. Sorry , I really didn't want to be an azz about it. I pray to one Creator. I know and understand Cheyenne ways.......and white man ways. My Great Grandfather sat on the hill and watched the Little Big Horn fight. He was 10 years old. My 3rd Great Grandfather was killed at Sand Creek.
Wardancer, I cannot tell you enough that I apologize for all of this misunderstanding. Yes, that's what it is,
a misunderstanding. I never intended to offend you nor invalidate what you was telling me. I was merely trying to explain my side when you mentioned that I was brainwashed. Everything you said was true, (what I referred to as Fake Chrsitians), but it was not intended to offended you. I am a born again Christian. I don't follow pagan holidays nor religious beliefs. For example: Catholicism, Methodist, Baptist, etc, etc. I follow God. The Christian church that I'm from, we don't consider ourselves religious, but a fellowship of believers in Christ. We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. We think of ourselves more as disciples of Christ because we preach His gospel inspired by the Holy Spirit. I know about the crucified on Friday and raised on Sunday. Yes, we too laugh at that math. But in spite of, we show the love of Christ, and we become the light within darkness as Jesus did. We are not religious, but believers in Christ. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (Jesus), that whosoever believeth in Him shall not preish but have eternal life. John 3:16." That is what we believe, and Jesus is who we follow. I am sorry and I apologize to you if my comment was taken out of context by Solitaire and created some uncalled for drama. That was never my intent. I just wanted to clarify to you that I was not the type of Christian that you thought I was, the "Brainwashed" kind. When I went to Bible college, I asked many questions about Christianity and our Native American ancestors. Like I told the other lady here, I was told, "This is not the class for that." So I went on my own and did my own study of what transpired because I was not getting the answers I needed from school. I found out everything that our ancestors went through in the name of Christianity. That is why I had a comment to your comment toward me. Again, I am sorry if I offended you. That was not the intention of my heart. In no way did I mean to invalidate your feelings if that's what Solitaire thought that I was doing. I too am Native and my family has the same history every other Native has. They all faced unspeakable atrocities and I would never downplay what our ancestors went through. Yes, I admit that I still have a lot to learn and I am here to learn, but I will also not stay quiet while people like Solitaire take my comments out of context. I am not a drama person, and I think first before I try to rebuke anyone on what I may think is an inappropriate comment. We all have a history in our lives. Thank you for sharing yours. I will share mine with you when this drama is over. Solitaire does not know me nor my life. She does not know the storms I have had to walk through to get to where I am today. The last time I checked, we are all entitled to our own opinions, which I did take yours into consideration, and tried and tried to explain mine the best I could at that moment. But for this lady to twist my words and to do what she did without thinking nor asking me first, well, that just really ticked me off. People need to learn how to ask first. I am 50 years old. I am too old for grammar school drama nor do I have the time for it. Wardancer, I need to ask: Were you offended by my comment or did you understand what I was trying to explain from it? I hope you weren't offended but please let me know either way. I know that you didn't mean for this to become a religious dispute nor topic. This was a little conversation between you and me, and she was out of bounds. Once again wardancer, I apologize for any offense to you.
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I am looking to join a Pow Wow dance team in Bergen County New Jersey or surrounding area. Dance Style: Jingle Dancing.



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Old 07-20-2017, 04:59 PM   #35
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Sorry Wardancer, I need to respond to a couple of points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow View Post
Please please re-read again my post.
I always read careful before responding. However, please note you're not the only person being addressed within this forum. I was merely adding an additional comment on the subject.

If you re-read my response without assuming it was directed at you, you will see that it supported both Soltaire's comment about the history and your comment about the failures of some followers of Christ.

Anything posted in the Ask Powwows.com forum is moderated. This means that those posting may, in fact, not have seen contributions that were submitted, but not approved, before they posted their comments. This leads to a lag making it seem like things are being blown out of proportion. It also means that several people may make make similar observations without being aware others have already opined. It is best to give folks the benefit of the doubt when they seem to be beating a dead horse -- they may not have been able to see the horse was already dead.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:22 PM   #36
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Liz, please let this go.

Many followers of tradition Native spiritual practices are very touchy about Christianity. Some are downright hostile. And some Native Christian people seem to exist in a permanent apologetic attack mode because of how they feel they are perceived.

To all:

Let us all be aware that we all have differing relationship with the recent import Christianity. As Native people we have all internalized varying degrees of colonial oppression. We have inherited our tribe's, family's and individual ancestors' histories of accommodation, compromise and resistance. These play out differently within our communities, homes and hearts.

But, as Native people we have retained respect. This demands we decolonize ourselves enough to listen and accept the other's experience. If we choose to offer differing perspective, we best do it by example not argumentation.


(Now, would that I could live be the above admonition, LOL.)
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Old 07-21-2017, 04:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Sorry Wardancer, I need to respond to a couple of points.



I always read careful before responding. However, please note you're not the only person being addressed within this forum. I was merely adding an additional comment on the subject.

If you re-read my response without assuming it was directed at you, you will see that it supported both Soltaire's comment about the history and your comment about the failures of some followers of Christ.

Anything posted in the Ask Powwows.com forum is moderated. This means that those posting may, in fact, not have seen contributions that were submitted, but not approved, before they posted their comments. This leads to a lag making it seem like things are being blown out of proportion. It also means that several people may make make similar observations without being aware others have already opined. It is best to give folks the benefit of the doubt when they seem to be beating a dead horse -- they may not have been able to see the horse was already dead.
Thank you for clarifying that OL Chemist. I was not aware of other people's comments because I actually did not see those posted on this thread. All I see is my specific quote and Solitaire's comment after it. So yes, with that, her response seems like it was geared toward me and I had to respond back. I'd like this drama to be over. It never should have started to begin with. I came here to powwow.com to learn, contribute, and hopefully make new Native friends, and instead this is what happens. This was a friendly conversation between two individuals and this lady put her two cents in without wardancer having the chance to respond to my comment. I felt like we were back in grade school for a moment there.
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I am looking to join a Pow Wow dance team in Bergen County New Jersey or surrounding area. Dance Style: Jingle Dancing.



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Old 07-21-2017, 04:58 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Liz, please let this go.

Many followers of tradition Native spiritual practices are very touchy about Christianity. Some are downright hostile. And some Native Christian people seem to exist in a permanent apologetic attack mode because of how they feel they are perceived.

To all:

Let us all be aware that we all have differing relationship with the recent import Christianity. As Native people we have all internalized varying degrees of colonial oppression. We have inherited our tribe's, family's and individual ancestors' histories of accommodation, compromise and resistance. These play out differently within our communities, homes and hearts.

But, as Native people we have retained respect. This demands we decolonize ourselves enough to listen and accept the other's experience. If we choose to offer differing perspective, we best do it by example not argumentation.


(Now, would that I could live be the above admonition, LOL.)

OL Chemist, Yes, I am letting it go. I know that people are touchy about Christianity. There has been a lot of Christian persecution going on for a long time. So yes, I get defensive because we are all placed in the same category and not all Christians are the same. Some of us are really nice people who follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ and we don't force our belief's on anyone. Like I said in a previous comment, "we are suppose to be the light within darkness." So with that I am letting it go here right now. This will be my last comment on the topic. I just hope that wardancer is okay. Thank you OL Chemist for. You have been very gracious to me since I signed up on this site, and always teaching me something new. I appreciate that. Have a blessed weekend.

God bless you,
Liz
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Peace and Blessings,
Liz Broken Arrow

I am looking to join a Pow Wow dance team in Bergen County New Jersey or surrounding area. Dance Style: Jingle Dancing.



God our Creator #1 in all we do always.
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