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Old 05-03-2009, 12:08 AM   #61
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Haven't bee on the bored for a while, and when I finally get a chance to visit, this topic comes up.

Some one mentioned the biggest problem I've seen with the OA, and I am talking as a member: you have some leaders who think that since they did it this way 30 or 40 years ago, that's how it's gonna be done now. WRONG! They think native cultrue has stagnated because they DO NOT go to powwows. They don't get out of their copmfort zone. And when you try to work with them, they don't want to.

I've been fortunate in that I met some awesome folks to help me along the way, Native and non-native. When I work with the youth, I try to teach them like I was taught: go learn first. Talk to the dancers, and ask questions as most dancers love to talk about their dance style and regalia. Find out the history and the origins of the dance, BE POLITE AND KNOW WHAT "NO" MEANS and don't push it. Once you know aboutthe history and are ready to make your regalia TAKE YOUR TIME AND DO IT RIGHT! I also tell them that you should always ask permission form somone on the committee before dancing. Someone said it right, don't ostracize them, unless they are doing something stupid, but please tlak to them and give them some good info.

As for a non-natives competing, I respect that and don't really care about the competion. I usually pay my fee to help support the powwow, eat with the dancers, and have fun. The one time I did win, I was shocked and just donated the money back to the drum. I wasn't there to compete, I was there to see freinds and have some fun.

I was at one powwow where I was given that crazy look by a few folks, despite having the MC or AD say it's fine for me to dance. Fortunatly I got their approval by helping out with some last minute stuff and assisting one of the elders to her seat.
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Old 05-03-2009, 01:28 AM   #62
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"...they can be progress..."

Critique, no matter how banal, is fine: but proper verb/subject agreement is easier to understand.

That said, I wonder why some immediately perceived satire related to the bogus judgments we place on ourselves yet others -- YOU -- went straight to fear? I am sure that it has something to do with either an inability, or unwillingness, to self-evaluate.

But I don't feel like dragging out the couch and going all Freudian on you.

Suffice it to say that those that fear Boy Scouts appear to be the same individuals sporting a personal identity based in the past, not the future.

"That's going to be a problem."

And not for the Boy Scouts or the rest of us.

No, I don't object to Boy Scouts or their sponsors at powwows, they're nothing but Native rodeos, anyway: let's not pretend otherwise.
LOL Thanks for the critique. I caught it today.

As far as the fear...save that bull**** talk for someone else. I've walked further and done more things in my 54 years than you you can ever think of doing. I've been actively politically on a federal level for NDN people, worked in high tech anglo-based companies and have SUCCEEDED in all! Save the petty talk for someone else who will argue with you.

Remember Zeke...there are some things we both agree upon!
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:31 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateer6 View Post

As for a non-natives competing, I respect that and don't really care about the competion. I usually pay my fee to help support the powwow, eat with the dancers, and have fun. The one time I did win, I was shocked and just donated the money back to the drum. I wasn't there to compete, I was there to see freinds and have some fun.

I was at one powwow where I was given that crazy look by a few folks, despite having the MC or AD say it's fine for me to dance. Fortunatly I got their approval by helping out with some last minute stuff and assisting one of the elders to her seat.

Yep...we were one of the drums who received money from him. Good guy!
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:20 AM   #64
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If Boy Scouts want to imitate Natives and keep it to themselves, fine. They can do their Order of The Arrow conclaves and "powwows" and imitate us but they are not us, they do not go back to the Rez afterwards. But that's just not the way it is though. Now they want us to allow them to dress up in their "costumes" and join with us at our dances.
The fact of the matter is this. We have gone though way too much. Ethnic cleansing. Attempted mass genocide. Biological warfare. Medical experiments performed by PHS doctors. Boarding schools. We have to have two numbers, tribal ID and SS number, at least we haven't had to get any of those tattooed on our arms. If it sounds like we were victims of Nazis, well you draw your own conclusions. When do we get to keep something of ours for us?
Powwows originated from the necessity of continuing our social dances despite bans on the gathering of Native people by the conquerors attempting to wipe us out by denying us our language and culture. Just being able to get out there now and dance is proof that we are still here and it's ours. Imitation in this case is not the sincerest form of flattery.
I've been told that I need to just get over it, it was a long time ago. But I laugh and say...well, let's just say that I speak fluent Vulgarian. Our stories aren't taught in schools, the Long Walk of the Navajo and the Trail Where They Cried aren't mentioned except as footnotes. The Battle of Little Bighorn is still referred to as a massacre in some places. No one talks about the fate of the Cheyenne at Sand Creek or Little Washeeta (the censor won't let me spell that right). I'm sorry, I grew up on the Rez in the 50's and 60's and became totally aware in the 70's. I realized how far gone our people were toward losing everything. Traditional ways were dying out. We are lucky that for some of us AIM brought back our pride and we were able to raise our heads and say, STOP! NO MORE!
If the Boys Scouts want to come to powwows and watch us dance fine, but they have to understand that they aren't, can't be and will never be Indians.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:09 AM   #65
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I have a (?). Do the Swedes have to carry a card to prove they are Swedes?

I continue to think of many dancers I know who are very good dancers, are well respected, and are not NDN. They had never said they were NDN, but no one had ever came out and asked them about there family tree/pedigree. Many I am proud to call a very good friend. I have had several non-NDN folks come to me and ask very good questions. They take these thing to heart and research very well. They go to society dances to watch and take every thing in. They dress very well, use very good manners with great respect. I won't say any names because many from the OK, KS and MO areas know these people. Some of these people have even been used as head staff at honorable dances.

I do agree that this is a common Powwow topic, i think that Traditional Ceremonials are considered different. I have been introduced to non-NDN dancers at our InLonshka who were dancing as a guest of an Honored family. These folks usually will sit in the visitors section but some will sit with the family sponsoring them. I have set next to a non-NDN sponsored by a prominant family and would not have questioned his ability to sit there and dance for our village. He volunteered the info and I greeted him with the utmost respect. His clothes were emaculate as was his mannerism. He was very reserve and respectful of the events happening. He followed all protocol as if he was an old vet there. I have seen NDN people who were quite embarrassing in both dress and mannerism.

With this being said I have always allowed Non-NDN dancers to dance at our family dance if and only if they are considerate and respectful to all protocol. I have had many simply come up to me and ask permission. Some I knew of but many I have talked to at length and asked to see what they have. Again this IS a powwow not a ceremonial.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:52 PM   #66
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If Boy Scouts want to imitate Natives and keep it to themselves, fine...but they are not us, they do not go back to the Rez...
So, now, The Rez makes you Indian?

That's ludicrous, blatantly dumb, short-sighted brainwashing that we've done to ourselves. (Not to mention inherently racist: it's akin to saying that the ghetto makes you black.)

SAD.

And 1970s AIM was a social embarrassment that, strategically, did more harm than good.

I sense both apologism and romanticism.

Grow up.

If you're threatened by Boy Scouts, get a life. Do you still believe the camera takes your soul?
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:06 AM   #67
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i for one am offended by boyscouts...especially since im pueblo.....you ever see thier "koshare" club? they make a mockery of our clowns who we revere as holy
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:58 AM   #68
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i for one am offended by boyscouts...especially since im pueblo.....you ever see thier "koshare" club? they make a mockery of our clowns who we revere as holy
Are you really hurt or threatened by anything that Boy Scouts -- who, generally, have their heart in the right place -- do?

Many American citizens, for example, are all up in arms about flag burning. Well, does it really hurt anybody?

I'm not trying to be dismissive, I just believe these sorts of things cause more issues than they are worth spending time on.

Why?

Because I'd bet no number of Boy Scouts would be able to change what you believe, right? Given that, who cares?
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:17 PM   #69
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I don't like the boy scouts either. In my experience, they are very disrespectful and demanding.
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Old 08-20-2012, 07:24 PM   #70
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well maybe you would feel different if you were pueblo.....whats next? white people gourd dancing? bird dancing? how about yei bi dancing? crown dancing? aint nothing sacred anymore?
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:25 PM   #71
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You don't think white people Gourd Dance? (sigh)

But, if you desire to use tribal elitism, what does a Pueblo care what a white man does?
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:07 AM   #72
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I am so embarrassed to say that these boy scouts are the offspring of the murderers of our people.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:23 AM   #73
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I am so embarrassed to say that these boy scouts are the offspring of the murderers of our people.
then why the heck do you post on a boy scout site?
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Old 08-21-2012, 03:19 PM   #74
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then why the heck do you post on a boy scout site?
Another embarrassment to my credit. I'm on a roll. I wonder what other skeletons Paul G. must have in his closet.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:05 PM   #75
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I am so embarrassed to say that these boy scouts are the offspring of the murderers of our people.
I find it embarrassing you would blame a teenager for what his ancestors did >125 years ago (at the most recent).

Actually, I just find you embarrassing.

I get it, we got the short end a while back. Let it go.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:24 PM   #76
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Why do people keep bringing up dead threads and then continue arguing in it...

Also it's incredibly narrow to assume someone's ancestors were here during all the removals, slaughters, massacres, etc... A lot of people came over in the 1890s and early 1900s. Even if they did, how would you know if they were involved. Plenty of people back then did not support the removals and the killings as well as slavery.

Also Wanji, if you are embarrassed to post on this site or have something against Paul then DON'T post here anymore. You remind me of people who complain about what a particular TV channel is airing when all they need to do is either turn off the TV or better yet change the channel.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:00 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
I am so embarrassed to say that these boy scouts are the offspring of the murderers of our people.
Uhm that is a bit much.. My sons are in Boy scouts they have learnd many life skills. We have not really got to the danceing part wich I know I will have to figure that one out for myself . But I am tired of uninformed people lumping scouts all together like that.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:43 AM   #78
I pull your leg out!
 
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Due to numerous complaints about this thread I am hereby closing it off.

If anyone would like to discuss this topic please create a new thread. We can't keep digging up all these old threads, as most of the original posters and commentators are long since gone and rarely visit this site.

PM me if you anyone has any objections.
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