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Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Ask PowWows.com Can anyone help me. Can anyone help me.

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Old 10-19-2014, 09:25 AM   #1
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Can anyone help me.

Hello everyone:

I wonder if anyone can help me?

I do not know if it was true or not, but a few years ago I developed a strong friendship with a VA vet who sadly died from long term affects of the chemical warfare.

During our friendship she told me that I had been enrolled as an honoury member of her Native American tribe (Cherokee - Georgia). All I know is she told me Chief John had given this honour.

I don't know if this was just a story that she wanted to say to me or if it was fact. I have always hoped it to be true and felt very proud.

Is it possible for me to find out if this was true and I was actually an honoury member.

Thank you for any help... I hope this has not been a silly question.

Good wishes
George
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:24 AM   #2
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That's just it ... Relying on honor and not legally enforceable, as a duty or obligation.
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Old 10-19-2014, 02:07 PM   #3
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Georgia Tribe of Eastern Cherokee >> The Georgia Cherokees first of all, the cherokee "tribe" of georgia is not a real tribe but a heritage group set up as a non-profit

but on another note, when have you been amongst them? have you met "chief" john? how about the rest of the "tribe"?

real ndn tri9bes dont go around honoring strangers

sorry about your friend though......my respects go out to ALL vets
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Old 10-20-2014, 03:45 AM   #4
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Hello and thank you xTenko and milehighsalute, thank you for replying.

I'm not sure I understand xTenko, I had no thoughts of anything 'legally enforceable, as a duty or obligation', but I think milehighsalute has cleared this up for me.

milehighsalute. No, sadly I am/was a total stranger. I never met anyone from the 'group', I never even met the vet I called a friend. I am actually a 'Brit' and hadn't been to America during my friendship time, but somehow we managed to change each others lives. It makes sense to me that outsiders would not be honoured in such a way, but it now greatly saddens me that something spoken by friend was not real and the pride I held was unfounded.

Thank you again for your replies and information.

Good wishes.
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Old 10-20-2014, 01:13 PM   #5
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idk @George50, there are a lot of holes in your post:

what is a VA Vet? it would make more sense to prefix it with WWII or Viet Nam, or other conflict.

the "vet" supposedly is a female, now i don't know if there were any females out there in combat gear that experienced any chemical warfare, let alone have a female in a combat role until recently.

finally, how can chief john (or anyone else for that matter) give anyone a honorary enrollment to anyone who is not in his or her presence to proclaim such an honor. it would make more sense if you were there in person and to have participated in some form of declaration.

you would have a leg to stand on if you were given some form of document.

however, we are all humans being in the process of being human. be proud of who you are (a brit) and enjoy being the person who you really are.
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Old 10-20-2014, 03:21 PM   #6
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xTekno,

I do not disagree with you, perhaps the fact that I am a Brit will allow me some degree of unfamiliarity with the 'vet' terms. All I am able to do is say what was told to me and that was this lady was a nurse during the Vietnam conflict.

Possibly I am wrong, but I get the impression that you believe I expect something out of this... I don't, it was just an enquiry as I had always felt proud, alas milehighsalute and yourself have enlightened me to the truth which somewhat saddens me as it was told to me by someone I called a friend and believed in, however, that past friendship will remain with me if perhaps a little tainted.

Thank you again and good wishes.
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:27 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by milehighsalute View Post
Georgia Tribe of Eastern Cherokee >> The Georgia Cherokees first of all, the cherokee "tribe" of georgia is not a real tribe but a heritage group set up as a non-profit
Milehighsalute, why does that site have a blinking "Cherokee Fraud" on it?
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:41 PM   #8
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Milehighsalute, why does that site have a blinking "Cherokee Fraud" on it?
so does that mean that the Georgia Tribe of Eastern Cherokee >> The Lord's Prayer is also a fraud?
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:12 PM   #9
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

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Old 10-20-2014, 09:19 PM   #10
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George50, there is something you need to understand about modern Native peoples:

We are the survivors of the end of the world. Our ancestors lost their land, language, culture and lives. They buried 50-90% of their tribes. Now their children are fighting to preserve the remnants. We have to battle the culture vultures who steal pieces of our religions and lifeways, twist them into grotesque shapes, then sell the battered fragments to make themselves rich. We are besieged by people find an Indian princess in the genetic woodpile and pretend to be us to get scholarships, jobs, health care, etc. Then as a final insult these newly made "Indians" lecture us about what being Indian means.

We are bruised and bleeding. So, forgive us if we are a bit touchy about our boundaries.


There are hundred of these heritage groups. Some have legitimate connections to Native peoples. But, in my experience many are full of lonely, damaged people, thrown to the side by the dominant culture. They seize on a family legend to give some meaning to their dislocation. They band with others and build questionable tribes. They take a dash of library book Lakota and Cherokee ethnography and a lot of Hollyweird Indian, and invent a mishmash they think is Indian culture. Often these sad people are fodder for con artists and perverts, who sell them a bill of goods.

If they were hurting only themselves, it would just be pitiful. But, in the course of their activities, they distort and damage our precious and sacred cultures. Then they become a threat to us.

I am not saying this particular group is like this. But, there are many things about your story that raise red flags. First, rarely do legitimate tribes give an "honorary" membership. This is like making an honorary citizen. Usually this kind of thing is between families, who adopt the outsider making him/her part of their kinship network.

Second, Cherokee of any flavor other than the Eastern Band, the Cherokee Nation and the United Keetoowah Band is suspect. Ever since Cher strapped on a beaded g-string and Las Vegas headdress and sang "Half-Breed," America has been hip deep in hidden Cherokee's. If there were as many Cherokee descendants as are currently claimed, the entire tribe would faded into the mists of history because the men would have died of exhaustion from trying to -- uh -- please all the white women who landed in America!

This is why people are reacting as they are. I would suggest you take your friend's honor as intended, a bond between families and cherish that.
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Last edited by OLChemist; 10-21-2014 at 06:31 AM..
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:51 PM   #11
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That prayer is legit

Just looks like a phony tribe took somebody's prayer and put it on their website
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gilisi View Post
That prayer is legit
All prayer is "legit". Speaking with The Creator is always "legit" However to translate a "christian" prayer into The Cherokee language doesn't take away its meaning ,but claiming it's a Cherokee Prayer is false. The Cherokee people have their own prayers and their own ways of praying. They don't need "christian" prayers.

More peoples have been killed in the name of christianity , than by any other way.

It seems odd to me that so many of our peoples embrace it. It's almost as if our ways are not good enough.....
I guess I'll never be "good enough" !
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:05 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by xTekno View Post
so does that mean that the Georgia Tribe of Eastern Cherokee >> The Lord's Prayer is also a fraud?
Many of these heritage groups splinter as time goes on into other groups as they have disagreements usually how the money is spent. We follow alot of theses heritage groups that reside in Arkansas and Missouri that have split many many times over...
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
All prayer is "legit". Speaking with The Creator is always "legit" However to translate a "christian" prayer into The Cherokee language doesn't take away its meaning ,but claiming it's a Cherokee Prayer is false. The Cherokee people have their own prayers and their own ways of praying. They don't need "christian" prayers.

More peoples have been killed in the name of christianity , than by any other way.

It seems odd to me that so many of our peoples embrace it. It's almost as if our ways are not good enough.....
I guess I'll never be "good enough" !
Interesting about the lords prayer in cherokee, the morovians were the first christian group to attempt to "convert" cherokees to christianity. They did aid us in converting our language to a typeset so that it could be used to print the bible into cherokee. But they did not gain much foothold into converting until the american baptist church was introduced to us, and the act of baptism was shown. Going to water is a very cherokee thing and also why so many cherokee baptist churches are built next to streams or water. But they preached against stompdance,stickball and other ceremonies. Those old ways were still practiced but there was a divide in our people. They preached shame and guilt and that took a terrible toll on our families it divided them. For conversion is an all or nothing undertaking and it forces families to choose there way over all others with no comprimise, it has taken us many years to shake off indoctrination...

So yes the lords prayer that is spoken in our language is legit from a convert point of view. But its not Cherokee ways...
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:09 AM   #15
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Hi George

I'm a Brit too (Welsh), don't allow what has occurred to taint the memory you have of your friend, perhaps something was lost in "translocation".

Your friend obviously did what she did out of friendship, this was important to her and also to you.

I've been visiting pow-wows for a few months, and I've come to realise that almost everything that I thought I knew was in fact wrong.

I'm keen to learn as much as I can, I'm also learning that my questions (born out of ignorance of both Native American Culture and American Culture in general) can be difficult and complicated to answer.
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Interesting about the lords prayer in cherokee, the morovians were the first christian group to attempt to "convert" cherokees to christianity. They did aid us in converting our language to a typeset so that it could be used to print the bible into cherokee. But they did not gain much foothold into converting until the american baptist church was introduced to us, and the act of baptism was shown. Going to water is a very cherokee thing and also why so many cherokee baptist churches are built next to streams or water. But they preached against stompdance,stickball and other ceremonies. Those old ways were still practiced but there was a divide in our people. They preached shame and guilt and that took a terrible toll on our families it divided them. For conversion is an all or nothing undertaking and it forces families to choose there way over all others with no comprimise, it has taken us many years to shake off indoctrination...

So yes the lords prayer that is spoken in our language is legit from a convert point of view. But its not Cherokee ways...
That is true that it is not the way we say our prayer (The Lord's Prayer).

I had noticed in the traditional Huron way of saying the "Lord's Prayer" in a different settings. It was brought to the Ojibwe to be sung about that. It brought our vision of know what they are saying in the prayer. Just want to put it out here.
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Old 10-26-2014, 12:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DeafElderWoman View Post
That is true that it is not the way we say our prayer (The Lord's Prayer).

I had noticed in the traditional Huron way of saying the "Lord's Prayer" in a different settings. It was brought to the Ojibwe to be sung about that. It brought our vision of know what they are saying in the prayer. Just want to put it out here.
The Lords Prayer is a christian prayer. Translated to many languages it is still a "christian prayer" and not a Huron prayer , Cherokee prayer , Cheyenne prayer , or anyone elses. It IS a christain prayer. It is not ANY tribe's traditional ways.
lbgood, Josiah, windanncer and 4 others like this.
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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