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-   -   Can someone please anwer this about American Indian religion? (http://forums.powwows.com/f73/can-someone-please-anwer-about-american-indian-religion-69344/)

Calista2015 06-05-2015 10:39 AM

Can someone please anwer this about American Indian religion?
 
Forget I even asked, some people here seem to have such attitudes when asking about how to practice Native American spirituality. Why ask? Because one GENERALLY does not know. I wasn't being racist or racially bias, I was telling of the experience I came upon, upon hearing from a group called Hebrew Israelites but I certainly am NOT an outside because my father was Lakota and my mother was Lakota and black but again, never mind I even asked anything.

OLChemist 06-05-2015 11:56 AM

First, welcome to powwows.com. We are a forum for the discussion of the Native social gathering powwows and related arts. We generally do not deal with Native religions.

Native people are incredibly varied and have many cultural traditions. There are over 500 federally recognized tribes within the US alone. We have no one religion, language or culture.

However there are some generalization that can be made. One of these is most Native people and cultures treat the sacred with profound respect. Our intellectual and spiritual traditions do not have their roots in the same soil as those of Europe. So, we have different rules governing the transmission of knowledge. In practice this often means we do not causally discuss the sacred among ourselves, let alone with outsiders.

Fortunately, you have one half your family to turn to. Your best access to your people's ways and teaching is your own elders. I would suggest you respectfully approach them with your questions.

As for this permutation of the lost Tribes theory, my people have their own Creation story. Many, if not most of us, do not subscribe to the primacy of the Judeo-Christian Genesis. In our story we were never lost.

I would question whether it is beneficial to you as a human to divide the world on racial lines. Do you like it when other people do it to you?

wardancer 06-05-2015 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista2015 (Post 1618385)
I am half Native American and half black and I am extremely interested in learning about my American Indian heritage but I heard of these religious people called the Hebrew Israelites and they claim that Blacks, American Indians and Spanish people are the chosen tribe of Israel and that all whites are devils and going to hell and will not be saved.

At first, I agreed with the blacks, American Indians and Spanish being the chosen tribe of Israel but the hatred of whites threw me a tad. I know whites put us American Indians in bondage and slavery in the history's past but I know a lot of American Indians who are friends with and associated with and are married to whites but according to black hebrew Israelites, whites are the enemy and should not be associated with period.


I wanted to find out do and if American Indians believe in the beliefs the Hebrew Israelite believe in and if not, what is the religion of the American Indians? Thank you

Greetings and Welcome to powwows.com ! This is a wonderful place to learn and ask questions about anything "powwow".
You say you are 1/2 native american. What tribe? I am 1/2 Southern Cheyenne & Arapaho. Our creation story says we came up out of the ground. Don't know how we could be Israelites ! We didn't come from Israel.LOL As I read your post I can only shake my head in dis-belief.....how old are you ? It sounds to me , that you have an incredible amount of racial bias !Hate is such a strong emotion !And speaking in general , ndns don't generally hate anybody. The only person in the world I "hate" would be my ex-wife (and for good reasons in my eyes), but as far as hating whites , I don't , otherwise I'd have to hate 1/2 of myself !:thinking:
The discussion of religion here is not taken favorably. It causes a lot of ill will. There are over 500 different tribes and possibly an equal number of what some would call ndn religion ! Maybe more. I think you need to figure out who and what you are first , then learn as much about that as you can. Then seek out Elders of that group to learn from.
And remember this when discussing religion and referring to the bible : The Bible is a book , translated many times over by scholars that really didn't know the languages they were translating , based on scrolls found in caves. These scrolls were gathered together and made into a story book. Now some people (mostly organized religion) use this story by stating it is the "word of God" and use it to control the people , convincing them that their way is the only way and if you don't bend to their will you'll go to he**. They try to scare you into submission.
Most native peoples believe in a Creator or higher power. But we are not afraid of Him , He is our friend , protector , helper ,guardian , supporter, provider.Each tribe having it's own ways of living and honoring Him.
These are my thoughts , and I hope they give you a starting point. At least something to think about. Good luck

Calista2015 06-05-2015 12:33 PM

Well
 
I'm eighteen and I found out last night I'm from the Lakota-Sioux tribe and I'm not trying to be racially bias, I'm just curious because I heard these Hebrew Israelites speaking in North Carolina two days ago and they were the ones saying that white people were evil devils and would be turned into slaves when God comes back and that the blacks and American Indians and Spanish would be the white people's slave masters and I was like - wow, is that true? I didn't know so I came here because most of the family I had that knew about the true ways of American Indian heritage are gone...So if I asked offensively, my apologies but I'm sincerely curious as to what is the truth on this issue.

Calista2015 06-05-2015 12:38 PM

Huh??
 
Why is it that when people ask questions about Native American heritage here, it's considered insulting and rude and racist? Firstly I am NO outsider, my FATHER was Cherokee Indian, my Mother was half black and half Lakota Indian. As I said, I ASKED this because I wanted to know what the spirituality of Native Americans was, so I can practice it. I can NOT find this out from family because they are ALL gone. I then wanted to find out if American Indians agreed with the ways of the Hebrew Israelites. Again, if the questions I asked was racist and rude to anyone here, my apologies but I thought this was a forum section where you could ask QUESTIONS about Native Americans.

OLChemist 06-05-2015 01:54 PM

I doubt this will be any better received than my last effort at civility and education, but hope springs eternal.

Take it easy. Remember you're on the internet. No one knows who you are. To my Dine and Creek friends you are an outsider. To my family you're an outsider. This was not meant to disparage you, but to remind you that we do not know you and you are in a very public place, discussing a sensitive matter.

Further, there are predators and tricksters that will take advantage of the desperate, the gullible, the ignorant. For this reason alone asking about spiritual matters online is unwise.

As a Lakota, you then know the just how damaging appropriation can be. How do you feel when you see non-Indians holding Sun Dances? Does it make you mad to have others making an inadvertent mockery of our offerings by leaving their scraps at our sacred places? Do the pipes for sale in gift shops make you feel queasy? Many of us guard very carefully our traditions.

As a Lakota you know from whence you came. Hopefully, you have heard the stories. You can go to the very place.

Let me make a final suggestion, if you're going to go asking these types of questions back in SD, you'd best grow a thicker skin. You will be tested. You will be teased. That's what happens. Best learn to let it roll.

(* To those reading this thread, note this forum is moderated. So, replies are often made before every post in a thread is visible to the respondent. *)

wardancer 06-05-2015 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista2015 (Post 1618396)
I'm eighteen and I found out last night I'm from the Lakota-Sioux tribe and I'm not trying to be racially bias, I'm just curious because I heard these Hebrew Israelites speaking in North Carolina two days ago and they were the ones saying that white people were evil devils and would be turned into slaves when God comes back and that the blacks and American Indians and Spanish would be the white people's slave masters and I was like - wow, is that true? I didn't know so I came here because most of the family I had that knew about the true ways of American Indian heritage are gone...So if I asked offensively, my apologies but I'm sincerely curious as to what is the truth on this issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista2015 (Post 1618397)
Why is it that when people ask questions about Native American heritage here, it's considered insulting and rude and racist? Firstly I am NO outsider, my FATHER was Cherokee Indian, my Mother was half black and half Lakota Indian. As I said, I ASKED this because I wanted to know what the spirituality of Native Americans was, so I can practice it. I can NOT find this out from family because they are ALL gone. I then wanted to find out if American Indians agreed with the ways of the Hebrew Israelites. Again, if the questions I asked was racist and rude to anyone here, my apologies but I thought this was a forum section where you could ask QUESTIONS about Native Americans.

Dang.....quick temper ! LOL I did not say that asking was rude and racist. I did not say you were an outsider. And it is obvious that you are young. So you are Cherokee , Lakota and Black.....so is my wife ! Happens a lot ! Again , there is no "general indian religion". And there are a ton of differences between the Cherokee people and the Lakota people. The Cherokees have had a couple hundred more years of dealings with the dominate society than the plains tribes. Ol'C is right , you better get some thicker skin.....no matter what color it is !

OLChemist 06-05-2015 04:04 PM

You are a newcomer to Indian Country. A trait that is very valuable to cultivate is patience. In my experience nothing in Native ways is learned quickly, except humility :)

Our elders have seen a lot of people come racing into our communities. Some have been in pursuit of research dollars, quick fix spirituality, a white-guilt get out of jail free card, instant Indianess... They want instant information to take away and use without return. (Nowhere in what I just wrote was I saying you were doing this.) This makes people skittish.

Even for folks born within the culture and community, knowledge does not come quickly. (Ask Wardancer, he will tell you he's an old guy but he's still learning.) This is part of our ways. People will test your commitment. If you go to a Lakota elder to ask for help, you may well be refused the first three times. Wowacintanka, perseverance, is a Lakota virtue. Patience walks and in hand with perseverance. (Says the woman who lacks both, LOL.)

You have been enculturated within the dominant culture to ask and you shall receive. This has its roots deep in the enlightenment and even deeper in the Hellenistic Greek ethos. You are heir to cultures that do not spring from those worldviews. You are trying to enter those cultures. Therefore, you might do well to become aware that not all the world learns by direct interrogation. There are areas in all cultures about which questions are improper and even unwelcome. It is well to go slowly and take what answers you get. You may be warned away from those areas.

OLChemist 06-05-2015 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista2015 (Post 1618397)
...I thought this was a forum section where you could ask QUESTIONS about Native Americans.

You can ask. But you may not get the answer you want.

xTekno 06-05-2015 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista2015 (Post 1618385)
Forget I even asked, some people here seem to have such attitudes when asking about how to practice Native American spirituality. Why ask? Because one GENERALLY does not know. I wasn't being racist or racially bias, I was telling of the experience I came upon, upon hearing from a group called Hebrew Israelites but I certainly am NOT an outside because my father was Lakota and my mother was Lakota and black but again, never mind I even asked anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista2015 (Post 1618397)
Why is it that when people ask questions about Native American heritage here, it's considered insulting and rude and racist? Firstly I am NO outsider, my FATHER was Cherokee Indian, my Mother was half black and half Lakota Indian. As I said, I ASKED this because I wanted to know what the spirituality of Native Americans was, so I can practice it. I can NOT find this out from family because they are ALL gone. I then wanted to find out if American Indians agreed with the ways of the Hebrew Israelites. Again, if the questions I asked was racist and rude to anyone here, my apologies but I thought this was a forum section where you could ask QUESTIONS about Native Americans.

this is getting more confusing with every post ... you were half something and half something else in the original post.

then your father was Cherokee and then was Lakota in another post. :thinking:

wardancer 06-05-2015 06:03 PM

Indeed , she has edited her posts. The first one did say he was Lakota and her mom was 1/2 Lakota and Black. The she corrected herself saying the father was Cherokee and her mother remains Lakota and Black. I wasn't going to be my usual nitpicking self , and was trying to be somewhat reasonably polite. With the way she edits her posts I'd say she's frustrated with the moderation rules in this thread as posts don't show up until approved.

wardancer 06-05-2015 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLChemist (Post 1618399)
I doubt this will be any better received than my last effort at civility and education, but hope springs eternal.

Take it easy. Remember you're on the internet. No one knows who you are. To my Dine and Creek friends you are an outsider. To my family you're an outsider. This was not meant to disparage you, but to remind you that we do not know you and you are in a very public place, discussing a sensitive matter.

Further, there predators and tricksters that will take advantage of the desperate, the gullible, the ignorant. For this reason alone asking about spiritual matters online is unwise.

As a Lakota, you then know the just how damaging appropriation can be. How do you feel when you see non-Indians holding Sun Dances? Does it make you mad to have others making an inadvertent mockery of our offerings by leaving their scraps at our sacred places? Do the pipes for sale in gift shops make you feel queasy? Many of us guard very carefully our traditions.

As a Lakota you know from whence you came. Hopefully, you have heard the stories. You can go to the very place.


Let me make a final suggestion, if you're going to go asking these types of questions back in SD, you'd best grow a thicker skin. You will be tested. You will be teased. That's what happens. Best learn to let it roll.

(* To those reading this thread, note this forum is moderated. So, replies are often made before every post in a thread is visible to the respondent. *)



No , she doesn't know any of that. And with her quick temper and attitude , I doubt she ever will.

OLChemist 06-05-2015 07:31 PM

I don't usually send people off to the books, because so often they are just plain wrong but, here is some recommended reading:

Keeping Heart on Pine Ridge, Victor Glover; Native Voices: Summertown, TN, 2004.

Rez Life, David Treuer; Atlantic Monthly Press:New York, 2012.

The Death of Raymond Yellow Thunder: And Other True Stories from the Nebraska-Pine Ridge Border Towns, Stew Magnusen; Texas Tech University Press: Lubbock, TX, 2013.

Bead on an Anthill: A Lakota Childhood, Delphine Red Shirt; Bison Books: Lincoln, NE, 1999.

Turtle Lung Woman's Granddaughter, Delphine Red Shirt; Bison Books: Lincoln, NE, 2003.

Standing in the Light: A Lakota Way of Seeing, Severt Young Bear, R D. Theisz; University of Nebraska Press: Lincoln, NE, 1996.

gilisi 06-05-2015 09:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
For the OP ......

wardancer 06-05-2015 11:10 PM

Well , as an un-educated person I thought I should look these Hebrew/Israelites up and see what that's all about !

25 Beliefs of the Hebrew Israelites - The Levites-????? ?????

wow , they are not anywhere close to my beliefs !

wardancer 06-05-2015 11:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
And for the Star Wars fans : LOL

subeeds 06-06-2015 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLChemist (Post 1618401)
You are a newcomer to Indian Country. A trait that is very valuable to cultivate is patience. In my experience nothing in Native ways is learned quickly, except humility :)

Our elders have seen a lot of people come racing into our communities. Some have been in pursuit of research dollars, quick fix spirituality, a white-guilt get out of jail free card, instant Indianess... They want instant information to take away and use without return. (Nowhere in what I just wrote was I saying you were doing this.) This makes people skittish.

Even for folks born within the culture and community, knowledge does not come quickly. (Ask Wardancer, he will tell you he's an old guy but he's still learning.) This is part of our ways. People will test your commitment. If you go to a Lakota elder to ask for help, you may well be refused the first three times. Wowacintanka, perseverance, is a Lakota virtue. Patience walks and in hand with perseverance. (Says the woman who lacks both, LOL.)

You have been enculturated within the dominant culture to ask and you shall receive. This has its roots deep in the enlightenment and even deeper in the Hellenistic Greek ethos. You are heir to cultures that do not spring from those worldview. You are trying to enter those cultures. Therefore, you might do well to become aware that not all the world learns by direct interrogation. There are areas in all cultures about which questions are improper and even unwelcome. It is well to go slowly and take what answers you get. You may be warned away from those areas.

I hope you have all these gems in a file so you can just copy and paste them. It would save you LOTS of typing. Seems this is the question of the week a lot of times.

wardancer 06-06-2015 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subeeds (Post 1618420)
I hope you have all these gems in a file so you can just copy and paste them. It would save you LOTS of typing. Seems this is the question of the week a lot of times.

She does ! :rofl:

OLChemist 06-06-2015 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subeeds (Post 1618420)
I hope you have all these gems in a file so you can just copy and paste them. It would save you LOTS of typing. Seems this is the question of the week a lot of times.

Sadly, yes.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista2015 (Post 1618397)
...I wanted to know what the spirituality of Native Americans was, so I can practice it.

You want to learn, good.

Indian 101.

There is no such thing as a generic Native American spirituality, except in a box on the shelf in your local New Age bookstore. There is Cree, Ojibwe, Saulteaux or ad infinitum spirituality. Native peoples are not monolithic. Each people has their own practices and traditions. It is a grave error to think of them as one group,

Since 1492, the dominant culture depiction of the various idigenious people of the Americas has reduced us to a mostly homogenous mass of tipi dwelling, warbonnet wearing, buckskin clad Dances with Wolves extras. There was and is enormous cultural, political, social, linguistic, and economic variation among the in excess of 1000 different peoples of the Americas.

At the time of contact, there were cities that matched those in Europe and Asia in size and sophistication. There were empires that rivaled those in Europe. There were hunters and gathers, city dwelling bureaucrats and priests, sea faring fisherman and traders, and sophisticated farming cultures. Some scholars estimate that nearly 50% of the crops that feed the world today were New World plants, unknown to the Old World in 1491. Our crops fueled the population explosion that led to extensive trans-Atlantic emigration. The religious range within the New World was as large as that in the Old World. Each group had their own practices.


Lakota 101:

Lakota is the language shared by a number of different political entities. There are seven groups that fall under the umbrella of Lakota: Sichangu, Oglala, Oohenumpa, Mnikowzu, Itazipcho, Sihasapa, and Hunkpapa. Thus Lakota people think of and refer to themselves as Oglala's, Hunkpapa's, etc. Within each group there are associations of extended families. So, you are also a member of one of these bands.

wardancer 06-06-2015 09:26 PM

You didn't give her the infinite knowledge of the ages or the exact "Indian" religious techniques , so I doubt she'll be back. Her kind never cease to amaze me.......
Someone should invent an "Instant Indian Acceptance Kit" :lol:


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