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Old 02-07-2017, 07:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Why do people expect that Indians at gatherings are going to effusively welcome strangers? And why when we don't do they take their ball and go home?

Let me illustrate: I'm a nerd, so I gravitate to nerdish things -- like lapidary clubs and Star Trek conventions. (Sorry, if I crushed any illusions. Not ya'll JD and Wardancer; you guys know I'm a nerd, LOL.)

A couple years ago, I joined an all Anglo rockhound/lapidary/jewelry club. The first meeting I attended turned out not to be a regular club meeting but -- surprise, surprise -- the Christmas potluck. Some folks made a point of greeting me and inviting me to join their table. Others were too busy meeting old friends and doing their own thing. And one person made a remark about my showing empty handed. If I had acted like some non-Indians do the second they are corrected or not greeted with instant blood-botherhood or some dang thing, I'd have missed out on a lot of fun.

I won't even discuss the welcome I got from a bunch of drunken "Klingons" in the hallway of a Boston Hyatt. But I still go to cons.

NDN's are people. We're not prefect -- except JD We're just folks. We have varying levels of interest in and aptitude at intercultural interaction. We have varying temperaments. Some of us are nice, some of us are jerks.

You want to go to a powwow, start with a nice, well advertised contest powwow at university or someplace like that. Sit in the back. Don't sit where a blanket has been placed on a seat or bench. Buy a program if they have one and read the powwow etiquette section, if there is one. Listen to the MC and the Arena Director. Stand when they tell you. Keep your hands to yourself (you'd be amazed the number of people who touch dancers without permission -- powwow not petting zoo) and your eyes open.

Watch for patterns more than ask questions. Learn to distinguish between contests and intertribals. Watch how folks of your gender behave. Nothing brands you as a -- uh -- can't find a polite word for it, than being the lone white girl on the floor without regalia, clutching a feather duster, dancing men's traditional during an intertribal. Or being the straight non-Indian guy with a blanket slung over his shoulders dancing fancy shawl. (Yes, I have seen both of these.) Save the dancing during an intertribal for the next powwow, unless invited by a new acquaintance you might have made.

Then go buy some Indian food and crafts. Get an extra bottle of water and offer it the elderly person next to you. Note the differences in etiquette. Watch and listen more than talk. Be humble.
Ummm...you misspeeled a word.

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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


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Old 02-07-2017, 08:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mystic View Post
Hello all, I am hear to learn more about Native Americans whom I have always admired and been fascinated with since childhood so please excuse my many questions.

I searched for Native American beliefs and was lead to this article:

Native Beliefs

Everything in that article is pretty much what the God of Moses dictates. I understand Native American pray to the "spirits in the sky", is there any link to those spirits and the Jewish/Christian God please? Thanks.
I'm confused. Does Trump pray to a Jewish god? Since he feels like he doesn't need to be forgiven, does he 'really' believe in a Jewish god? And since a lot of Anglo (many being of great descent) voted for Trump, do they still like him because he likes Israel?
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

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Old 02-07-2017, 08:28 AM   #23
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I'm purrfect!
You are so right.

How's the wife taking to all the cats?
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:57 AM   #24
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We are not pretentious, it's in our blood to treat everyone the same, whether relative, friend or stranger.
Among my people that would be very rude. You treat strangers with hospitality. But, having relatives and treating them appropriately is what makes you civilized. You joke with certain types of in-laws and treat others with the utmost respect, even unto not speaking directly to some. Woman treat their brother with great respect. And brothers protect their sisters throughout their entire lives. A well-raised person most assuredly does not treat everyone the same; they treat everyone correctly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic View Post
...the whole reality of true Reservation life and protocol and why her statements differ from you guys here?
Realities, reservations, lives, protocols... Plural, again. Also, reservation Indians aren't necessarily more "real" than urban Indians.

Non-Indians want an essentialist Indian experience. A nice neat box in which they can shove Indians, just like the mental boxes in which they store other groups. I understand that this is, in part, a function of our neurobiology, which makes the human brain an unparalleled, high-speed pattern seeker. The Creator did some exquisite work crafting our neurons. But, culture shapes how we employ our God given skills.

If you're going to enter Indian country -- by this I mean cultural territory not necessarily geographic -- get used to shades of gray. First, there are 500+ federally recognized Native communities in the US alone. Second, you are viewing our cultures through the lens of your culture. At the risk of being a total scientist-nerd here, expect a lot cultural chromatic aberration and coma (look it up:) ). As you go remember, what you think you understand, you probably only partially understand.


As for the yes or no, note the context. I was telling you that at a public social gathering, where everyone is invited, like an intertribal powwow, you will probably find welcome (from some individuals) if you behave appropriately.

But when it comes to attending a religious event -- be it a sweat, a sing, a prayer meeting, a Saint's day dance, or whatever a particular tribe does -- I was saying no.

Here's some Native Culture 101 to hopefully help. And remember, we're many people, with many cultures and many religions. There is no unifying religious practice or philosophical framework. So undoubtedly, there are exceptions to what I am about to say, however...

Since 1492, we have had to fight to protect our people, land, economy, intellectual property, and spiritual integrity. We have lost many of these battles; so, we cling jealously to what is left. The Christian west actively seek converts, it shares religious information freely and copiously. All the Native ways I've learned about have restrictions on the sharing of religious information. Natives don't seek converts. Native cultures have very different understandings of the structure and function of the spiritual.

For example, among my people you earn access to teachings and power. They are gifts from the Spirits and Creator, but you have to cultivate relationships to become worthy. Intent and action both have to be right. And you may never be given some things. There will always be some aspects beyond your reach; humans are pitiful and limited. Further these gifts are for the good of the people. You are selfish, boastful or loose-lipped at your own risk. This is the way the universe was created.

Down in the Pueblos, knowledge belongs to societies, priesthoods, families, and clans and is held by the People for the good of the People. Knowledge is on a need to know basis. Men don't know all about women's ways and vis versa. You know only what you've been initiated into. You don't tell the secrets of your religious order without profound metaphysical and physical consequences. This is the way the universe was created.

Back in the North Caroline and Oklahoma, the Cherokee medicine people have written "textbooks" of their prayers and cures. But, only those with the prerequisite spiritual sanction and training have -- or need -- access to these things. This is the way the universe was created.

Do you see and understand? For most Native people, traditional religion is cloaked by a veil of respect and privacy. You don't trifle with the sacred or even speak too casually about these things. This is not done out of spite or racism. It is need to know, whether you're Indian or non.

It is done in accordance with a community's teachings about how creation and the spiritual powers function. It is done to protect our ways, our families and even those outsiders who might trifle with the Powers. There are deep physical and metaphysical consequences to the appropriation and abuse of the spiritual. These acts are believed to damage our people and this land. So, we act to protect ourselves, our children and our land. We ask that you try to understand our perspective and our actions. Failing that, that you respect our boundaries and stay out of what doesn't concern you.
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:51 PM   #25
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Remember that the reason I inquired here about visiting a pow pow is because the cherokee friend had told me about the "Standing Rock" pow wow, how great and enjoyable it is for all visitors from all over the world, that is what I had based my intentions on.

I think I see now why the friend's statements may not be accurate. She is a 60 year old well travelled University Grad, have made a lot of friend worldwide, is by nature a very friendly and outgoing person, I share the same personality so does my family BUT she told me that she had only spent a whopping 6 "weeks" on a reservation with her relatives all of her life.

I am thinking now this is why she may not know the whole reality of true Reservation life and protocol and why her statements differ from you guys here?

So your Cherokee friend told you how welcoming the ndns were at the Standing Rock Powwow , is that correct ?
Just trying to get this straight in my feeble little brain.....
Then She she only spent 6 weeks on a rez with her relatives , is that right ?
So what Rez was that ? The Cherokee Rez or was it also Standing Rock ? If so I was unaware of The Cherokee migration to Standing Rock and would like to know more !
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:12 AM   #26
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So your Cherokee friend told you how welcoming the ndns were at the Standing Rock Powwow , is that correct ?

Then She she only spent 6 weeks on a rez with her relatives , is that right ?
So what Rez was that ? The Cherokee Rez or was it also Standing Rock ? If so I was unaware of The Cherokee migration to Standing Rock and would like to know more !
I spoke to her last night, she is from the Cherokee nation in N. Carolina and yes have lived off the Reservation all of her life and had only spent 6 weeks there in her younger days.

The Standing Rock pow wow is a "protest" she says which is held in N.Dakota and people worldwide attend to show their support.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.55590774af24

She also said that there are different pow wows, like you guys have stated some where no visitors allowed but there others like the annual pow wow which is held in New Hyde Park in NY in July, this was the one she was referring to which is more of a fundraising event so the general public is invited.

At such a pow wow as that one there are certain dances where the visitors are invited to join in if they wish, that is the info I got.
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:55 AM   #27
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The gathering for the protest is not the same as a powwow. You should probably learn the difference.
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic View Post
I spoke to her last night, she is from the Cherokee nation in N. Carolina and yes have lived off the Reservation all of her life and had only spent 6 weeks there in her younger days.

The Standing Rock pow wow is a "protest" she says which is held in N.Dakota and people worldwide attend to show their support.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.55590774af24

She also said that there are different pow wows, like you guys have stated some where no visitors allowed but there others like the annual pow wow which is held in New Hyde Park in NY in July, this was the one she was referring to which is more of a fundraising event so the general public is invited.

At such a pow wow as that one there are certain dances where the visitors are invited to join in if they wish, that is the info I got.
She sounds pretty white.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:52 PM   #29
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Mystic; since you are asking these questions, answer one for us....
What is your take on this story.

(Thanks MHS for sharing this before, I don't remember where you referenced it)
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