[LizBrokenArrow]

Hi Everyone. Anyone know any of the locations of any Taino Tribes? I am looking for Cheif names or the names of anyone you may know who is active in their tribe, addresses, phone numbers, email address, anything that can help me connect with a live person. I'm especially interested in the Taino Tribes & active organizations of Puerto Rico. Nothing is coming up in google searches or anywhere else.

These are the names of the Taino Tribes:
1- Taino
2- Boriken Taino
3- Kiskeia Taino
4- Bohio Taino
5- Hibaro Taino
6- Sibonel Taino
7- Kuba Taino
8- Guahiro Taino
9- Hamaika Taino
10- Yamaye Taino
11- Taino Arawak
12- Kalinago
13- Karib
14- Lokono

Does anyone know the locations of any of these?

My grandparents from both sides of my family are Taino, but all 4 are deceased & I cannot find out what tribes and reservations they belonged.

I am hoping that someone here may have answers for me. Thank you all in advance for time & help.

Peace & Blessings
Liz

[OLChemist]

There aren't reservations on Puerto Rico.

USGS Map showing federal lands on PR

For comparison a state with all kinds of federal and reservation lands:

USGS Map showing federal and reservation lands in NM

The situation for the Taino is much more complicated.

Smithsonian Mag: Taino

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by OLChemist

There aren't reservations on Puerto Rico.

USGS Map showing federal lands on PR

No reservations in Puerto Rico? I don't understand why my family would throw me off like this. I just don't get it. I don't understand all the secrecy. Did they not think I would find out one way or another?

For comparison a state with all kinds of federal and reservation lands:

USGS Map showing federal and reservation lands in NM

Thanks these "land links" help a lot. How did you find these? How do I conduct this kind of research myself for future reference. I'm saving these links. You Rock OLChemist.

The situation for the Taino is much more complicated.

You say "The situation for Taino is more complicated." That's an understatement. I have hit so many road blocks. But I thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction with these links.

Smithsonian Mag: Taino

I know I still have a lot more work to do, but I finally have some more answers, thanks to you. I appreciate your help.

I wish I could find some Taino's here on powwow.com forums. I have requested if there are any here, but apparently not. It would make things so much easier. Thanks again OLChemist.

[OLChemist]

Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow

How did you find these? How do I conduct this kind of research myself for future reference.

At the risk of being flippant, I typed the rather obvious phrase 'Puerto Rico reservation map' into the search field in Google. . The third or fourth link in the list had the maps.

There are lots of places to find this kind of data. There is the somewhat user-unfriendly US Census data. There are maps and other goodies spread over dozens of different areas on the website and in a zillion different formats.

Some of the easier to use are:

AIANNHA overlay:

https://tigerweb.geo.census.gov/arcg...NNHA/MapServer

Click the View In: 'ArcGIS Online map viewer' link. Then zoom in on your area of interest.

Tribal Census Tracts:

https://tigerweb.geo.census.gov/arcg...acts/MapServer

Click the View In: 'ArcGIS Online map viewer' link. Then zoom in on your area of interest.

There are also PDF's of the 2010 Census - Tribal Tract Reference Maps. But they are stunningly difficult to access. I've never had the links work and have had to wade through rather painful ranks of directories, hoping to find the most current data.

There is the USGS website fro the National Mapping program:

https://nationalmap.gov

Also not the most direct route to a map. But a very good one. Indeed, it's the source of those maps that you found helpful.

But, its' all so much easier than the old days digging in government record depositories, just to find the right thing to order. I still have blueprint tubes full of old topo maps from the USGS. Now, I can get all this with a search engine. But you do miss the serendipitous finds in the next folder over or the next decimal place up or down in the DDC or LC number.

[OLChemist]

Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow

I don't understand why my family would throw me off like this. I just don't get it. I don't understand all the secrecy. Did they not think I would find out one way or another?

I can give you a couple of reasons why this kind of thing happens in family stories. You're probably not going to like them. Understand I'm NOT saying these things happened in your particular case.

1) The original storyteller extrapolates from their understanding or experience to fill in missing details. So, they "know" Indians lived on reservations and their great-grandma was an Indian. A miracle then occurs. Quod erat faciendum, great-grandma lived on a reservation!

Oddly, this reservation was in whatever state in which great-grandma passed away. Whether or not there is a reservation there. I've had more than my share of arguments with folks who had claimed a Shawnee, Cherokee, Mohegan, Cheyenne, etc great-grandmother whose tombstone was in OH, PA, WV or some other state with no reservations. In the face of data to the contrary, they insist she lived on a reservation in OH, PA, WV, etc.

2) The original storyteller engaged in wish fulfillment and created the Native in the family tree. They told their friends, their children, anyone who'd listen about their Indian roots. Their child then told their children about their Indian ancestor. Now these children are looking for their ancestors. There is no way their mom and nana could have lied to them! So, they search for a non-exisitant Indian.

3). People misinterpret Indian census rolls. Folks got enrolled, disenrolled, turned down.... People are mistaken about names.

[Broken Arrow]

Originally Posted by OLChemist

I can give you a couple of reasons why this kind of thing happens in family stories. You're probably not going to like them. Understand I'm NOT saying these things happened in your particular case.

Sigh, you are all to right in all aspects of your points. And it is not limited to NDN's family stories and search for documents.

Liz, please be prepared to find "facts" which may be disturbing to you but it is not your fault.

You can not change the past but may give the future a better chance.

[gilisi]

Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow

Hi Everyone. Anyone know any of the locations of any Taino Tribes? I am looking for Cheif names or the names of anyone you may know who is active in their tribe, addresses, phone numbers, email address, anything that can help me connect with a live person. I'm especially interested in the Taino Tribes & active organizations of Puerto Rico. Nothing is coming up in google searches or anywhere else.

These are the names of the Taino Tribes:
1- Taino
2- Boriken Taino

3- Kiskeia Taino
4- Bohio Taino
5- Hibaro Taino
6- Sibonel Taino
7- Kuba Taino
8- Guahiro Taino
9- Hamaika Taino
10- Yamaye Taino
11- Taino Arawak
12- Kalinago
13- Karib
14- Lokono

Does anyone know the locations of any of these?

My grandparents from both sides of my family are Taino, but all 4 are deceased & I cannot find out what tribes and reservations they belonged.

I am hoping that someone here may have answers for me. Thank you all in advance for time & help.

Peace & Blessings
Liz

Good morning and welcome to pws.com

You should save some money, buy a plane ticket, and go.
Go to the place where your people were/are.

If you do this, you might just find what you're looking for.

If your ancestors want you to know who you are, you will know.
Documents and written histories can be valuable and very helpful to confirm/discern fact from fiction, but I believe alot of people are dissapointed even when they gain their CDIB cards because they don't REALLY identify with the people.

[OLChemist]

Possibly of interest:

An Inconceivable Indigeneity: The Historical, Cultural, and Interactional Dimensions of Puerto Rican Taíno Activism

The Caribbean Indigenous Legacies Project

Yale Colonial Genocides Project

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by OLChemist

At the risk of being flippant, I typed the rather obvious phrase 'Puerto Rico reservation map' into the search field in Google. . The third or fourth link in the list had the maps.

There are lots of places to find this kind of data. There is the somewhat user-unfriendly US Census data. There are maps and other goodies spread over dozens of different areas on the website and in a zillion different formats.

Some of the easier to use are:

AIANNHA overlay:

https://tigerweb.geo.census.gov/arcg...NNHA/MapServer

Click the View In: 'ArcGIS Online map viewer' link. Then zoom in on your area of interest.

Tribal Census Tracts:

https://tigerweb.geo.census.gov/arcg...acts/MapServer

Click the View In: 'ArcGIS Online map viewer' link. Then zoom in on your area of interest.

There are also PDF's of the 2010 Census - Tribal Tract Reference Maps. But they are stunningly difficult to access. I've never had the links work and have had to wade through rather painful ranks of directories, hoping to find the most current data.

There is the USGS website fro the National Mapping program:

https://nationalmap.gov

Also not the most direct route to a map. But a very good one. Indeed, it's the source of those maps that you found helpful.

But, its' all so much easier than the old days digging in government record depositories, just to find the right thing to order. I still have blueprint tubes full of old topo maps from the USGS. Now, I can get all this with a search engine. But you do miss the serendipitous finds in the next folder over or the next decimal place up or down in the DDC or LC number.

Thank you so much. This helps so much. I'm saving all this info. It will definitely help in my searches. You rock. This will help me continue in my search. Thanks a billion.

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by OLChemist

I can give you a couple of reasons why this kind of thing happens in family stories. You're probably not going to like them. Understand I'm NOT saying these things happened in your particular case.

1) The original storyteller extrapolates from their understanding or experience to fill in missing details. So, they "know" Indians lived on reservations and their great-grandma was an Indian. A miracle then occurs. Quod erat faciendum, great-grandma lived on a reservation!

Oddly, this reservation was in whatever state in which great-grandma passed away. Whether or not there is a reservation there. I've had more than my share of arguments with folks who had claimed a Shawnee, Cherokee, Mohegan, Cheyenne, etc great-grandmother whose tombstone was in OH, PA, WV or some other state with no reservations. In the face of data to the contrary, they insist she lived on a reservation in OH, PA, WV, etc.

2) The original storyteller engaged in wish fulfillment and created the Native in the family tree. They told their friends, their children, anyone who'd listen about their Indian roots. Their child then told their children about their Indian ancestor. Now these children are looking for their ancestors. There is no way their mom and nana could have lied to them! So, they search for a non-exisitant Indian.

3). People misinterpret Indian census rolls. Folks got enrolled, disenrolled, turned down.... People are mistaken about names.

I am not offended. I understand completely. No worries. You can be brutally honest with me. I am not one to get offended easily. I am praying that this does not the case with me because I will feel very hurt by my family. I have taken the required blood test, and I already filed an application for tribal registration. I have furnished them all of the information that I had found so far at the time of mailing out my registration. I have given them all of the names of my parents, and of all four of my grandparents from both sides of my family including the locations in Puerto Rico where I found out that they were born, lived or at least where I suspect that they were born from my online searches. I am hoping that that is not another brick wall and that the info that I furnished them is conformable. I have found more info like the names of my great-grandparents, and great-great grandparents, but only after I already put in my application. I will furnish that to them if they request it in case they turned up zero on their end. I still do not know how the registration process works after you've put in registration forms. But eventually I will find out. I will keep you posted on that. Than y

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

Sigh, you are all to right in all aspects of your points. And it is not limited to NDN's family stories and search for documents.

Liz, please be prepared to find "facts" which may be disturbing to you but it is not your fault.

You can not change the past but may give the future a better chance.

Broken Arrow, thank you so much for your support. It means a lot to me. I am prepared. Nervous, but prepared nonetheless to find out whatever facts may come my way. I just want to find out the truth, and hopefully find out why my family has been so shady about all of this. I wish I could speak to my mom, but I cannot. My mom was the one who initially told me about her mom being Taino, but very little about our ancestors since when she told me, she was on the early onset of dementia and wanted me to know before her mind was completely gone. At least all that she could remember at the time. Her mom died when my mom was about 10 to 13 years old, and her family shipped her off to New York to live with other family. All of my mothers siblings where all separated by the family when my grandmother passed away. The truth, I still do not know why. One thing that is for sure, that no matter how much time, how many years pass by, the truth always comes to light. My mother has dementia and I can't really get answers from her because her mind is not what is used to be. She'll be 81 soon and has mental health issues now with the dementia. I have had to find most everything on my own with no help from family. I look forward to finding out what comes out from my tribal registration form whether it's positive or negative. Will keep you posted too. Thanks again for the support.

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by gilisi

Good morning and welcome to pws.com

You should save some money, buy a plane ticket, and go.
Go to the place where your people were/are.

If you do this, you might just find what you're looking for.

If your ancestors want you to know who you are, you will know.
Documents and written histories can be valuable and very helpful to confirm/discern fact from fiction, but I believe alot of people are dissapointed even when they gain their CDIB cards because they don't REALLY identify with the people.

Hi gilsi. Yes, I want to go to Puerto Rico so bad. I had spoken to my unsupportive husband about going there, (he doesn't understand why I am doing all of this). Anyhow, he would support me in taking a trip to Puerto Rico and he would come with me. That made me hopeful. However, after hurricane Irma recently hit the island, and now with hurricane Maria making its way to the island again in these coming days, a trip to Puerto Rico now has to take a back seat until after hurricane season passes and it is safe to make that trip. I know that I do not know all of my family in PR, but I am banking on meeting some of them and hoping that at least one of them "likes me so much" that they would open up to me and give me some info, (the truth), and guiding me on the right path there. In the meantime, I have to keep searching here from my end to find whatever I can find until I am able to make a trip down there. Thanks gilsi.

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by OLChemist

Possibly of interest:

An Inconceivable Indigeneity: The Historical, Cultural, and Interactional Dimensions of Puerto Rican Taíno Activism

The Caribbean Indigenous Legacies Project

Yale Colonial Genocides Project

OLChemist, Thank you so much for these links. I just booked marked all three so that I can sit down later after dinner and go through each one. I know the .pdf will take me a few days. It's almost 400 pages, but I am so excited to read and learn about all of this. Thanks again. You have been so helpful. Now I feel excited again. Thank you.

[Broken Arrow]

Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow

I am prepared. Nervous, but prepared nonetheless to find out whatever facts may come my way. I just want to find out the truth, and hopefully find out why my family has been so shady about all of this.

I wish, hope and pray for you and your family that find out and find inner peace. Walking the way is a first step and will help because you try.

Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow

I wish I could speak to my mom, but I cannot. My mom was the one who initially told me about her mom being Taino, but very little about our ancestors since when she told me, she was on the early onset of dementia and wanted me to know before her mind was completely gone. At least all that she could remember at the time. Her mom died when my mom was about 10 to 13 years old, and her family shipped her off to New York to live with other family. All of my mothers siblings where all separated by the family when my grandmother passed away. The truth, I still do not know why. One thing that is for sure, that no matter how much time, how many years pass by, the truth always comes to light. My mother has dementia and I can't really get answers from her because her mind is not what is used to be. She'll be 81 soon and has mental health issues now with the dementia. I have had to find most everything on my own with no help from family. I look forward to finding out what comes out from my tribal registration form whether it's positive or negative. Will keep you posted too. Thanks again for the support.

Oh weh. Parts sound so familiar. My parents are 82 and 81 now and I have some insight what you are facing.



Walk your way, you will find out may be in small peaces and with slow pace. You will find your particular obstacles and reasons. While the are different in detail the human reasons for that acting may be less different.

May God and the Creator lead you.

[eagleclanriverband]

Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow

I am not offended. I understand completely. No worries. You can be brutally honest with me. I am not one to get offended easily. I am praying that this does not the case with me because I will feel very hurt by my family. I have taken the required blood test, and I already filed an application for tribal registration. I have furnished them all of the information that I had found so far at the time of mailing out my registration. I have given them all of the names of my parents, and of all four of my grandparents from both sides of my family including the locations in Puerto Rico where I found out that they were born, lived or at least where I suspect that they were born from my online searches. I am hoping that that is not another brick wall and that the info that I furnished them is conformable. I have found more info like the names of my great-grandparents, and great-great grandparents, but only after I already put in my application. I will furnish that to them if they request it in case they turned up zero on their end. I still do not know how the registration process works after you've put in registration forms. But eventually I will find out. I will keep you posted on that. Than y

Honestly, I was put off by all your Christian proselytizing in your earlier posts; so I chose to stay quiet. But I feel the need to speak up now because I think you are being misled by whatever group you filled out an application for “tribal registration” to.

I hope you understand that there is NO Taino & Carib Indian Tribe that is legally US Federally Recognized and that the PR Commonwealth Govt. does not officially recognize any Taino/Arawak & Carib Tribe on the Island either. This has nothing to do with your family & who your ancestors were. All PR Tainos aren't legally recognized by the BIA as an American Indian Tribe.

There are a number of Taino “social friendship clubs”, “cultural organizations” & “political action groups” (they call themselves different things); NONE of these groups/entities can offer you “tribal enrollment” that is LEGALLY considered by the US Govt./BIA to be as belonging to a US Federally Recognized American Indian Tribe.

The membership you are buying is basically no different than Sam’s Club or a gym membership. It’s akin to paying a fee to become a member of the Girl Scouts kind of thing. For example, I have ZERO Taino blood & if I pay $30/person to the United Confederation of Taino People, they would give me a membership & issue me what they call a “tribal id”.

There are a number of for-profit corporations & non-profit charities that use weasel words to make it look like they offer “tribal enrollment” in their "official registry" or what they call an "affiliate" to their "inter-tribal indigenous nations", but these are basically scams in that they cannot offer you membership/enrollment in any US Federally Recognized American Indian/Native American Tribe.

BTW…The reason why there are no reservations in PR & no treaties with Taino/Arawak/Caribs is because the US Military invaded, took it over & occupied Puerto Rico during the Spanish/American War in1898. After the war, the US Govt. acquired it as a possession from Spain as a concession.

[OLChemist]

Originally Posted by eagleclanriverband

... But I feel the need to speak up now because I think you are being misled by whatever group you filled out an application for “tribal registration” to.

I hope you understand that there is NO Taino & Carib Indian Tribe that is legally US Federally Recognized and that the PR Commonwealth Govt. does not officially recognize any Taino/Arawak & Carib Tribe on the Island either. This has nothing to do with your family & who your ancestors were. All PR Tainos aren't legally recognized by the BIA as an American Indian Tribe.

There are a number of Taino “social friendship clubs”, “cultural organizations” & “political action groups” (they call themselves different things); NONE of these groups/entities can offer you “tribal enrollment” that is LEGALLY considered by the US Govt./BIA to be as belonging to a US Federally Recognized American Indian Tribe.

Thank you, I've been grappling with how to word this myself.


I've never understood this obsession with a card. Paper doesn't make an Indian. Enculturation makes an Indian. Kin makes an Indian. Language makes an Indian.

I would caution you, be very careful how you use that ID. These cards are not real federally recognized tribal ID's. The numbers on them indicate enrollment in a federally recognized tribe. In one of your earlier threads you mentioned education benefits. Understand that almost all of those require enrollment in a federally recognized tribe.

I put the phrase federally recognized in bold because it has import in Native America. It means your tribe has a particular legal relationship with the US government. Enrolled members of those tribes have particular legal standing within US law. Tribal ID card and CDIB's are markers of this relationship. Without them, you're outside those legal boundaries.

The recognition process wasn't perfect. It left people out. It wasn't irreversible. Ask @eagleclanriverband she can tell you all about termination.

Before someone starts the "I don't need no stinking Fed to tell me I'm Indian." I never claimed that you needed that be part of a Native community.

May I suggest Steven Pevar's book for a relatively painless introduction to the legal landscape of Native America.

Rights of Indian Tribes

[Joe's Dad]

Originally Posted by eagleclanriverband

Honestly, I was put off by all your Christian proselytizing in your earlier posts; so I chose to stay quiet. But I feel the need to speak up now because I think you are being misled by whatever group you filled out an application for “tribal registration” to.

I hope you understand that there is NO Taino & Carib Indian Tribe that is legally US Federally Recognized and that the PR Commonwealth Govt. does not officially recognize any Taino/Arawak & Carib Tribe on the Island either. This has nothing to do with your family & who your ancestors were. All PR Tainos aren't legally recognized by the BIA as an American Indian Tribe.

There are a number of Taino “social friendship clubs”, “cultural organizations” & “political action groups” (they call themselves different things); NONE of these groups/entities can offer you “tribal enrollment” that is LEGALLY considered by the US Govt./BIA to be as belonging to a US Federally Recognized American Indian Tribe.

The membership you are buying is basically no different than Sam’s Club or a gym membership. It’s akin to paying a fee to become a member of the Girl Scouts kind of thing. For example, I have ZERO Taino blood & if I pay $30/person to the United Confederation of Taino People, they would give me a membership & issue me what they call a “tribal id”.

There are a number of for-profit corporations & non-profit charities that use weasel words to make it look like they offer “tribal enrollment” in their "official registry" or what they call an "affiliate" to their "inter-tribal indigenous nations", but these are basically scams in that they cannot offer you membership/enrollment in any US Federally Recognized American Indian/Native American Tribe.

BTW…The reason why there are no reservations in PR & no treaties with Taino/Arawak/Caribs is because the US Military invaded, took it over & occupied Puerto Rico during the Spanish/American War in1898. After the war, the US Govt. acquired it as a possession from Spain as a concession.

And they have no Jingle Dress dancers.

You have spoken good words. It reminds me of the white people when they say they are 'tribal members' of the 'Cherokee Nation of the French All's. Poor people. Trying so hard to belong.

To the Taino lady. Search for your family, not your identity. Your will find more comfort that way.

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by eagleclanriverband

Honestly, I was put off by all your Christian proselytizing in your earlier posts; so I chose to stay quiet. But I feel the need to speak up now because I think you are being misled by whatever group you filled out an application for “tribal registration” to.

I hope you understand that there is NO Taino & Carib Indian Tribe that is legally US Federally Recognized and that the PR Commonwealth Govt. does not officially recognize any Taino/Arawak & Carib Tribe on the Island either. This has nothing to do with your family & who your ancestors were. All PR Tainos aren't legally recognized by the BIA as an American Indian Tribe.

There are a number of Taino “social friendship clubs”, “cultural organizations” & “political action groups” (they call themselves different things); NONE of these groups/entities can offer you “tribal enrollment” that is LEGALLY considered by the US Govt./BIA to be as belonging to a US Federally Recognized American Indian Tribe.

The membership you are buying is basically no different than Sam’s Club or a gym membership. It’s akin to paying a fee to become a member of the Girl Scouts kind of thing. For example, I have ZERO Taino blood & if I pay $30/person to the United Confederation of Taino People, they would give me a membership & issue me what they call a “tribal id”.

There are a number of for-profit corporations & non-profit charities that use weasel words to make it look like they offer “tribal enrollment” in their "official registry" or what they call an "affiliate" to their "inter-tribal indigenous nations", but these are basically scams in that they cannot offer you membership/enrollment in any US Federally Recognized American Indian/Native American Tribe.

BTW…The reason why there are no reservations in PR & no treaties with Taino/Arawak/Caribs is because the US Military invaded, took it over & occupied Puerto Rico during the Spanish/American War in1898. After the war, the US Govt. acquired it as a possession from Spain as a concession.

Hi eagleclanriverband, I appreciate your feedback and I apologize that you were put off by my Christian proselytizing in my earlier posts. That was not my intent. I was raised one way, and now I am trying to learn and find our about my ancestors and who I am. I am learning about what happened to my ancestors and I cannot tell you how much I am battling within my inner self due to with my Christian beliefs and my ancestors beliefs to the point where now I am questioning my Christian beliefs and trying to absorb more about what I am learning about my ancestors beliefs. It's my battle and in some form or another I will figure it all out within myself as I go along and continue to learn more about my family.

As for all of the info that you have given me about my Taino people, I can honestly tell you that I did not know all of that and I thank you for bringing that up to me and I will take that and research more so that I can learn more. Again, someway or another, I will figure all of this out.

Now for the Taino Tribal registration, when I found the organization that I sent my blood test and registration to, they stated that they are registered with the government and that they are recognized. Here is where I'm a little weary because you mentioned that I am being misled by them. I found 3 Taino organizations in Puerto Rico last night. Unfortunately, I cannot contact them yet because I don't know if you heard, but Puerto Rico lost all power and phone services in these days when they got hit with Hurricane Maria. I cannot even get a hold of my family there to find out if they're okay, alive and well. Are you telling me that the Taino Tribal Org's in PR are a scam as well? How would I find that out? How would I find out about the Tribal Org that I applied too? How did you get all of this information? My gosh, I'm all over the internet trying to find out info, and I hit brick walls, and when I do find something, apparently it's not legit. Apparently I must not be searching properly. Can you expand on that? So if and when I get approved to any Taino Tribal Org, it's all fake? They're all fake. I don't understand. The Taino Tribal Org that I applied to hold events and perform at Pow Wow's. What am I missing here? I am still so confused. I mean, on the one hand I understand everything that you told me and I believe you, but on the other hand, I am still confused because they hold events and recently found out that they do perform at Pow Wow's. So how do I investigate if the organization I applied to is legit or not? Thanks again for your feedback eagleclanriverband. I appreciate it.

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by OLChemist

Thank you, I've been grappling with how to word this myself.


I've never understood this obsession with a card. Paper doesn't make an Indian. Enculturation makes an Indian. Kin makes an Indian. Language makes an Indian.

I would caution you, be very careful how you use that ID. These cards are not real federally recognized tribal ID's. The numbers on them indicate enrollment in a federally recognized tribe. In one of your earlier threads you mentioned education benefits. Understand that almost all of those require enrollment in a federally recognized tribe.

I put the phrase federally recognized in bold because it has import in Native America. It means your tribe has a particular legal relationship with the US government. Enrolled members of those tribes have particular legal standing within US law. Tribal ID card and CDIB's are markers of this relationship. Without them, you're outside those legal boundaries.

The recognition process wasn't perfect. It left people out. It wasn't irreversible. Ask @eagleclanriverband she can tell you all about termination.

Before someone starts the "I don't need no stinking Fed to tell me I'm Indian." I never claimed that you needed that be part of a Native community.

May I suggest Steven Pevar's book for a relatively painless introduction to the legal landscape of Native America.

Rights of Indian Tribes

Hi OLChemist, Please, I am not like other people. You don't ever have to grapple with words to tell me. I actually appreciate honesty no matter how brutal the honesty may sound. I really do not offend easily. I am here to learn, even if what I learn is a harsh reality. As for the card, I am not obsessed with having one. I am just looking for who I am, where I come from. And I was encouraged by someone in another site to take the blood test and apply for the card because they investigate the information of your ancestors that you provide to see if it's true or not, so I figured I can do that, and see what they can find out and thought that through that, I could also get to the bottom of who my family is if the organization would get a hold of my families info in order to approve or decline my registration. That's all. About my earlier posts comments abut educational benefits, after the feedback and info to research that I received in those posts, I let that ship sail and no longer pursued it because it's not important to me. More important to me is to figure out who I really am. I am not doing all of this research and going through so much heartache and confusion because I want to "belong." Belonging is also a non-issue to me. I don't know if you understand what I'm getting at. When you grow up thinking one thing, and was raised one way, then you find out that your life was almost sorta like a lie, you move mountains to find out the truth. There's that old saying, "The truth will set you free." That's what I am looking for. I am looking for the truth, I am looking for my Taino family that my family abandoned and want nothing to do with. I want to know why they abandoned the family. I want to know the truth and I want to meet my family. Everything else doesn't matter. I am already confused and conflicted on so much during this journey, and really, nothing matters to me but the truth. And so I thank everyone here for their feedback, honesty, and links for me to research. So OLChemist, if you have something to say, tell me freely. I am here to learn. No worries. No need to spare my feelings. Yes, some stuff hurts, but I went into this journey knowing that it could go either way. I was already prepared for the good, the bad, and the ugly. Thanks friend.

[LizBrokenArrow]

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad

And they have no Jingle Dress dancers.

You have spoken good words. It reminds me of the white people when they say they are 'tribal members' of the 'Cherokee Nation of the French All's. Poor people. Trying so hard to belong.

To the Taino lady. Search for your family, not your identity. Your will find more comfort that way.

Hi Joe's Dady, I am by no means like the white people trying to be posers. I am by no means "Trying so hard to belong" like you put it. (I know you weren't really referring to me by the way). But just so that you can know what I am doing here on this site, and why I ask questions, you need familiarize yourself with my journey here through my past posts, and on this thread as well. You will see that I am here on this site merely trying to learn and getting help on finding out my families history. I know that I am Taino. There's no question about that. Both sides of my parents, my grandparents, and great-grandparents, paternal/maternal, all Taino. So far, I know that my grandparents and great-grandparents and the grands before them all lived it. I know about who my grandparents and great-grand parents were from both sides of my family. When my grandparents passed away, that's when the family after that, the descendants abandoned the life and never spoke a word of it to any of us. I ask, they all change the topic, and are really shady and reluctant to answer any questions at all. Also, a lot of the family who would know, and probably would not had said anything anyway, have already passed away. I'd love to take a trip to PR, but I cannot until PR is restored from this devastating hurricane that tore the Island apart. So until then, I am here asking questions and learning since I do not have all of the answers. Yes, I get misinformation, but I don't know that it is misinformation until I come on here to ask questions about things that I have found out.

As for your comment that Taino's don't Jingle Dance. Yes, I know that. I know the type of dances that they do. I've seen it. I however, gravitated to Jingle Dancing. It's what I am learning. It's what I love. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that. If there is, let me know.

Peace and blessings Joe's Dad. Thank you for your comments and feedback.