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Old 06-19-2013, 03:13 AM   #1
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The manifesto is coming...

In approximately one month, I will have been here ten years. For the record, as web boards go, that is an ancient amount of time.

First, most web boards do not last that long and leadership here deserves kudos. Second, even if you last that long, posters have typically become disinterested, distracted, or have otherwise worn out their welcome long before a decade has elapsed.

Sum?

This is a time for celebration for both Powwows.com (which existed long prior to my joining) and me. Oddly enough, my identification with this board has existed beyond any romantic endeavor I have had, relationships with my children or any professional (good or bad) status that I have accrued. Basically, ten years is a long time!

I am not sure what to do with that but I know it is a milestone.

So here's the deal: I am far, Far, far from a perfect human but I am not aware of anyone who does not believe that I am smart and/or possess an opinion. I am debating the idea of expounding upon them in some sort of manifesto but realize that 3/4 of what I care about could be completely meaningless to the public at large.

As such, I invite you to PM me with any questions, even uncomfortable ones for me (or other Natives). For those queries I answer, I give you my word I will directly quote your question -- with no identifying information -- and tell you specifically what I feel about it. (Or, you may just ask questions, below.)

1. Do not expect objectivity.
2. I may wind up highlighting nothing but personal weakness.
3. Leadership takes this risk.
4. I want to be a leader for those whom I love.

You'll never get a better chance to take a pot shot at Zeke's way of thinking...

If this puts me on record and ruins any chance at a political career? Oh, well.

Last edited by Zeke; 06-19-2013 at 01:38 PM.. Reason: Clarification.
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:07 PM   #2
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I would love to read your manifesto...bring it on!

A lot of what I post in recipes, crafts, and anything besides the daily drivel, is there in case any of my progeny would like to access that info in the future...or at least for as long as powwows.com exists.

Sooo...in response to your request, I am wondering...what is(are) the top issue(s) facing native communities nowadays, and what steps do you think should be taken to overcome that (those)?
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:20 PM   #3
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So, we send Zeke a PM message, like a Dear Abby letter, and he "answers" on this thread?

Dear Zekey,

I want to be on tribal council, but I'm already having an affair with the Chairman, who is married to my auntie, who got snagged last week by the BIA Ranger, who dated my cousin last year.

How can we get a casino?

Thank you
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:26 PM   #4
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Congrats on the Decade here on Pow wows Dot Com.

I myself, have around the same time over on Delphiforums Dot Com.


The format of these forums are struggling against Facebook & Pinterest type sites.

Let's see how much longer the forums keep chuggin' along
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
In approximately one month, I will have been here ten years. For the record, as web boards go, that is an ancient amount of time.

First, most web boards do not last that long and leadership here deserves kudos. Second, even if you last that long, posters have typically become disinterested, distracted, or have otherwise worn out their welcome long before a decade has elapsed.

Sum?

This is a time for celebration for both Powwows.com (which existed long prior to my joining) and me. Oddly enough, my identification with this board has existed beyond any romantic endeavor I have had, relationships with my children or any professional (good or bad) status that I have accrued. Basically, ten years is a long time!

I am not sure what to do with that but I know it is a milestone.

So here's the deal: I am far, Far, far from a perfect human but I am not aware of anyone who does not believe that I am smart and/or possess an opinion. I am debating the idea of expounding upon them in some sort of manifesto but realize that 3/4 of what I care about could be completely meaningless to the public at large.

As such, I invite you to PM me with any questions, even uncomfortable ones for me (or other Natives). For those queries I answer, I give you my word I will directly quote your question -- with no identifying information -- and tell you specifically what I feel about it. (Or, you may just ask questions, below.)

1. Do not expect objectivity.
2. I may wind up highlighting nothing but personal weakness.
3. Leadership takes this risk.
4. I want to be a leader for those whom I love.

You'll never get a better chance to take a pot shot at Zeke's way of thinking...

If this puts me on record and ruins any chance at a political career? Oh, well.
Thanks for being here for 10 years! I appreciate your input here.
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
Congrats on the Decade here on Pow wows Dot Com.

I myself, have around the same time over on Delphiforums Dot Com.


The format of these forums are struggling against Facebook & Pinterest type sites.

Let's see how much longer the forums keep chuggin' along
Not to get this thread off track, but I wanted to comment on this.

Over the last few years, this forum has lost about 30% of it's traffic. (that's the forums not the rest of the site) I attribute that to Facebook and other social sites.

In the last year though, traffic is growing. Social sites are now helping to drive traffic to the forums. Since the beginning of the internet, people have looked for places where they can chat with like-minded people. So I think forums will always have a place on the web.
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:48 PM   #7
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I just want to know if Zeke and Wanjica the One are One in the same and just like to argue with each other. You know...split personalities!

I'm just kidding. Congratulations on the decade!
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:50 PM   #8
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Zeke - congratulations on your 10 year anniverary next month. And many more returns.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:14 AM   #9
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Congrats on the 10 years, Zeke.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:11 AM   #10
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Yes, congrats on 10 years!! Thanks for all your contributions to powwows.com!!

So I'm wondering...in your opinion, what are the top issues facing native american chat rooms and what steps can be taken to improve them?
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:41 PM   #11
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CONGRATS ZEKE
I personally always enjoy your posts. I can count on your wit and sarcasim, but more importantly a thoughtful post. Post that have intellect and purpose(most of the time anyway). Plus I love the "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" idealogy you espouse.
As far as consistant posts you rank up there. I cant wait to read the Manifesto! Maybe I'll send a question via PM.

That being said No one can outdo " OLCHEMIST'
That lady would be hard to top(as far as quality posts go).
Just sayin'
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul G View Post
Not to get this thread off track, but I wanted to comment on this.

Over the last few years, this forum has lost about 30% of it's traffic. (that's the forums not the rest of the site) I attribute that to Facebook and other social sites.

In the last year though, traffic is growing. Social sites are now helping to drive traffic to the forums. Since the beginning of the internet, people have looked for places where they can chat with like-minded people. So I think forums will always have a place on the web.
Okay...

....please explain the amount of Lurkers on Powwows Dot Com. Shyness? No-ooooooo! It's because

like-minded people here get together and beat up the OTHER like-minded people.



Paul, YOUR traffic...AND....MY traffic on my YouTube & Facebook have BOTH grown in the last year.

Do I need to call upon Captain Obvious to make an appearance here?



So, here is the NEXT level: a Native Jewelry / Crafts channel like HSN, QVC, or Jewelry Channel.

The beaders can just stick to production of items while the Channel handles the marketing, display,

sales, and shipping. All items CERTIFIED to be Native-made, and authentic. No family designs stolen,

or appropriated. This is a Win-Win-Win!
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
Okay...

....please explain the amount of Lurkers on Powwows Dot Com. Shyness? No-ooooooo! It's because

like-minded people here get together and beat up the OTHER like-minded people.
We've always had lurkers. But we have even more than ever now.

People love to browse and quickly read content now. It's the whole FB like mentality. We don't necessarily post a comment, we just glance, like and move on.

People are doing that on all sites now.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyo_rose View Post
Sooo...in response to your request, I am wondering...what is(are) the top issue(s) facing native communities nowadays, and what steps do you think should be taken to overcome that (those)?

1. Belief that we have to have "Native communities."
2. Fear of change, believing it makes us non-Native.



Number One:

I get it, there is a prevailing idea suggesting that physical communities -- generated in an organic manner -- are what protects Native culture and makes us who we are.

Well, only if the community is in any way indicative of actual Nativeness and not some loose conglomeration of folks who happen to be Native that live near each other due to allotment, status or (failed) treaty.

Sum? Said folks aren't protecting anything but a way of life that has been dead since 1890 yet cloak themselves in some sort of pride filled martyrdom generating behavior from it.

My obvious example is fry bread. Now, I am not elitist, I eat the stuff. But it's not traditional and it's not who we are. That said, we've codified slave food into being a specific and honored part of what it means to be Native.

Are you kidding me? That is like Jewish parents tattooing their children at birth with concentration camp markings because it has become traditional among their people. And only those Jews carry the true identification of their people holding fast to the "old ways."

Eff that.

Right now, Native communities -- as they exist -- are NOT necessarily helpful to Native people. We need to redefine them but that generates fear.

Number Two:

It generates fear because we have allowed ourselves to become socially brainwashed into believing that not only do we not control our own destiny but that anything cultural that would not be recognized by our ancestors as within their scope to understand is bad.

To begin with, limited sovereignty is an oxymoron. Just as you cannot be a little bit dead or sort of pregnant, you cannot be sovereign with limitations. You are or you are not dead, pregnant or sovereign.

The most recent example of this is when I called the Cherokee strategy dumb in terms of ousting the Freedmen. Right or wrong (and I believed it wrong from jump), you've generated a situation where -- eventually -- the BIA is going to show you (and everyone else) who actually calls the shots. All that $$$, all that embarrassment and nothing changed: due to trying to disenfranchise a relatively small number of people.

We exist as political entities at the will and pleasure of the Great White Father. That's just reality so long as the table scraps taste better to leadership than what we can achieve. Unfortunately, if there is any tribe that might have been powerful enough, right now, to cede Federal recognition with any semblance of self-sustaining momentum, we just learned how far away we are.

That's fine. What's NOT fine is failing to try to grow.

Again, I get it. Trough either malice or Manifest Destiny delusion, we got our posteriors kicked for about 500 years and lost a continent.

That happened.

But the vast majority of our issues now are internal and a cog in that determinative machine is that nobody seems to be able to agree on what it means to be an Indian. There's a lot of fear about that, mostly from those who despise deviating from what they perceive to be a traditionalist norm.

Are you serious? Who defines that norm? We do. Collectively. To be anything we desire.

But that's scary to those who worry about rights, privileges and $$$ passed down from Federal recognition and status due to bloodlines. They fear being able to define ourselves and honor a system that grades beagles and chows because it is in their "hang around the fort" best interest. They fear being social adults, bearing any accountability or questioning a scheme that -- right now -- serves their interest even though they KNOW it is strategically bad because they're making a buck.

The best example I have of this is an IACA loon in St. Louis who champions an unnecessary law because it protects a desired monopoly while -- at the same time -- knowing her grandchildren are not enrollable in her tribe due to quantum. Sum? To make a quick $$$ she supports something that disavows folks she (presumably) loves even though it immediately disenfranchises them because they cannot be recognized as Native.

Me? I'd be asking questions on both ends of that equation: why do I need your protection and who are you to define me? But those are scary questions that folks who prefer to remain social pets won't ask.

That's too bad because it doesn't make us non-Native to do so unless the definition you care about is someone else's.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:29 PM   #15
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Thank you for the response! I have to read it twice, or maybe three times, but I swear...my brain would just atrophy, if it didn't stimulation like this!!
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by wyo_rose View Post
Thank you for the response! I have to read it twice, or maybe three times, but I swear...my brain would just atrophy, if it didn't stimulation like this!!
I know right, Zeke calls it intellectual masturbation. Zeke is really good at lending a hand so everyone can reach the big finish
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:26 PM   #17
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I get it, there is a prevailing idea suggesting that physical communities -- generated in an organic manner -- are what protects Native culture and makes us who we are.

Well, only if the community is in any way indicative of actual Nativeness and not some loose conglomeration of folks who happen to be Native that live near each other due to allotment, status or (failed) treaty.

Sum? Said folks aren't protecting anything but a way of life that has been dead since 1890 yet cloak themselves in some sort of pride filled martyrdom generating behavior from it.

I'm not sure we don't risk throwing out the baby with the bath water by being so quick to dismiss the spiritual influence of physical space. And it is an error to discount the shear force of cultural resistance that can be generated by proximity. The reservations/traditional communities offer the possibility of creating a space in which our institutions and structures can function. They could become the NDN equivalent of the Shtetl, fostering a rich set of community and family institutions, arts, language, literature, religion and learning. Or they could just make us easier for the Cossacks to pick off.

The key to which path we go down, I think, is what you say below. We need to decolonize and cultivate the self-discipline that will allow us to prune away social chaos, and familial and personal dysfunction.


OK, we're playing lifeboat and you're building a modern Native community on your desert island:

1) What do you keep? Or probably more useful, what criterion to you use for preserving that which is now considered tradition and fighting to reclaim what we've misplaced?

2) What do we throw away? Why?

3) What criterion do you propose for harmonizing our changes and borrowings with our -- to plagiarize Dr Garroutte -- "original instructions"?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
...nobody seems to be able to agree on what it means to be an Indian. There's a lot of fear about that, mostly from those who despise deviating from what they perceive to be a traditionalist norm.

Are you serious? Who defines that norm? We do. Collectively. To be anything we desire....

That's too bad because it doesn't make us non-Native to do so unless the definition you care about is someone else's.


And finally, if you're going to redefine tribal membership:

1) What delimits membership: language, religion, kinship, ethos, phenotype, residence, community recognition?

2) If you discard lineal descent and blood quantum, how do you keep the "People of Walmart Tribe" who define Indianess as covering their assets with a breechcloth, the culture-distorting New Agers, or the ner'do'wells in search of a per cap from claiming membership?

Last edited by OLChemist; 06-21-2013 at 12:43 AM.. Reason: I'm too ashamed to admit it, LOL.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:28 AM   #18
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Congratulations on the decade of masturbatory posting :p

Seriously I have a lot of respect for you. Even when we disagree about stuff.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:35 AM   #19
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Congrats @Zeke - A virtual tin of fine cigars for you in honor of your 10th anniversary here!

I'm looking forward to your manifesto. My ears always perk up when you enter a conversation. I may or may not agree with you, but your positions are always well considered and thought provoking. Here's hoping for another 10 years!
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:01 PM   #20
Ugh. As. If.
 
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if it gets you banned heck i wanna read it haha
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