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-   -   Maybe a stupid question but asking anyway... (http://forums.powwows.com/f73/maybe-stupid-question-but-asking-anyway-70924/)

LizBrokenArrow 02-07-2018 06:10 PM

Maybe a stupid question but asking anyway...
 
Okay, so, my question is: Why do a lot of gringos claim to be Native American? They tell everyone that they are and where it like a badge of honor. For those who don't know what gringos are, they're Caucasian people (pale white skin, some blonde, blue, green or hazel eyes).

So I ask them if they really know what they are saying. I ask them if they really know the history because it's really not about the pilgrims and Indians breaking bread together and making peace. It's not about what they see on TV and in the movies. It's not about Pocahontas the cartoon movie, (since they wear the costume for Halloween). They proceed to tell me yes, that they know, and they tell me exactly what I just told them what it is not, but in their own words and make themselves look like (well, I'm not going to go there because I think you get where I'm getting at).

I go deeper, and then they proceed to tell me the hogwash that they learned in school from the textbooks. So then I begin to tell them that I grew up learning that hogwash too, but that it is all lies, and I try to explain the truth to them, to open their eyes about what society has done to hide what our ancestors had gone through and what our people now have are still going through. I explain how it has taken me a lifetime to learn the truth and that I am still learning.

Needless to say, to them I am wrong, I am deceived into believing propaganda, and that the textbooks are correct, and that gringos are Native American as well because this land is as much theirs as it is ours. Yeah, right.

Again, maybe a stupid question but still asking: Why do gringos claim to be Native American?

Any thoughts in how else I can respond because this isn't the first time and I know it won't be my last and I don't like to argue. I am not good at confrontation, but I am not good at standing down either. Thanks you to all who can give me any feedback here.

OLChemist 02-07-2018 07:35 PM

There are more than few threads on the boards that discuss this issue. That said...

One, I would caution you about judging people by phenotype. I know enrolled blue-eyed blonds who speak their language and are recognized by their communities.

Two, make sure you're hearing (capital-N)ative and not (little-n)ative. A good friend of mine just goes postal on the term Native American. She was born in a America, so she's native. Your blood pressure will be a lot lower if you don't draw the Maginot line around an expression as slippery as Native American. (I seem to recall you've had some tension over the the term before, LOL.) Before you pull the rhetorical knife make sure your not in a gun fight, in a different state.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish: Telling them they're not really Indian? Telling them that Native history is bloody? Telling them they're stereotyping?

(My grandpa used to tell stories like the one below to teach me. But, I never got anything from them if I let myself be consumed by thinking he was criticizing me. I was suppose to listen, think and take what I would from his story. In time, sometimes much later, the lesson generally bonked me on the head, LOL.)

I once watched a couple of ladies with Twinkie test scores in the 80th percentile or better try to out Indian each other, and catch the other out on some "Indian" fact. Both were dead set on putting the other on the wrong side of the us-them line. By the time they were done, they had relocated the Trail of Tears to 1930's Ohio, measured their check bones, invoked every Indian chief on Wikipedia and had counted the wolves on their t-shirts. I dang near wet my panties trying not to laugh. The saddest part of all, both had documented descent from ancestors on Cherokee rolls.

LizBrokenArrow 02-07-2018 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLChemist (Post 1634898)
There are more than few threads on the boards that discuss this issue. That said...

One, I would caution you about judging people by phenotype. I know enrolled blue-eyed blonds who speak their language and are recognized by their communities.

Two, make sure you're hearing (capital-N)ative and not (little-n)ative. A good friend of mine just goes postal on the term Native American. She was born in a America, so she's native. Your blood pressure will be a lot lower if you don't draw the Maginot line around an expression as slippery as Native American. (I seem to recall you've had some tension over the the term before, LOL.) Before you pull the rhetorical knife make sure your not in a gun fight, in a different state.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish: Telling them they're not really Indian? Telling them that Native history is bloody? Telling them they're stereotyping?

(My grandpa used to tell stories like the one below to teach me. But, I never got anything from them if I let myself be consumed by thinking he was criticizing me. I was suppose to listen, think and take what I would from his story. In time, sometimes much later, the lesson generally bonked me on the head, LOL.)

I once watched a couple of ladies with Twinkie test scores in the 80th percentile or better try to out Indian each other, and catch the other out on some "Indian" fact. Both were dead set on putting the other on the wrong side of the us-them line. By the time they were done, they had relocated the Trail of Tears to 1930's Ohio, measured their check bones, invoked every Indian chief on Wikipedia and had count the wolves on their t-shirts. I dang near wet my panties trying not to laugh. The saddest part of all, both had documented descent from ancestors on Cherokee rolls.

Haha, OLChemist, yes, I remember. LOL. I wasnít trying to accomplish anything persay. I was just getting frustrated because they were mocking me and patronizing me. I stayed quiet for about two weeks. I just couldnít anymore. They got on my last nerve. I get your point though. This group is born here in America (Irish), but, honestly, I do get your point. Doesnít mean they are or they arenít. Now youíve got me in the mood for Twinkies. Hehe.

subeeds 02-09-2018 03:38 AM

I think a lot of it has to do with the whole "spiritual quest" so many people seem to go on. Gringoes, as you call them, seem to think that if they can "walk the "red Path" they will become one with nature and all that stuff. Not sure what they are looking for, but they pay people like James Ray and others to take them on that "journey". There are a lot of people out there selling "native ways" and a lot of people out there buying. Sad but true.

Joe's Dad 02-09-2018 09:23 AM

What is a a gringo?

wardancer 02-09-2018 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1634933)
What is a a gringo?

Is it the opposite of "Frito" ? :laughing:

Toolbox 02-09-2018 11:57 AM

You live in the wrong state/region if that all bothers you. You can always move to Rapid City, or the Phoenix metro area, which are both places where being ndn isn't the fashionably in thing to be...

OLChemist 02-09-2018 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toolbox (Post 1634938)
You live in the wrong state/region if that all bothers you. You can always move to Rapid City, or the Phoenix metro area, which are both places where being ndn isn't the fashionably in thing to be...


Yeap, I can take you to some rez border towns where you wouldn't want to self-identify.... I've been followed by the police to the town limits after crossing back off the rez and, as I've said before, I get a phenotype pass.

wardancer 02-09-2018 12:11 PM

Heck , when I lived in Austin , I got pulled over by Border Patrol ! :rofl:

Broken Arrow 02-09-2018 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toolbox (Post 1634938)
You live in the wrong state/region if that all bothers you. You can always move to Rapid City, or the Phoenix metro area, which are both places where being ndn isn't the fashionably in thing to be...

:confused:

Rapid City is close to Pine Ridge. From Phoenix Arizona it seems it is 200 km to the Navajo Nation Reservation.

LizBrokenArrow 02-09-2018 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subeeds (Post 1634927)
I think a lot of it has to do with the whole "spiritual quest" so many people seem to go on. Gringoes, as you call them, seem to think that if they can "walk the "red Path" they will become one with nature and all that stuff. Not sure what they are looking for, but they pay people like James Ray and others to take them on that "journey". There are a lot of people out there selling "native ways" and a lot of people out there buying. Sad but true.


I hear what you're saying. Some of us really want to learn and you can't buy knowledge. You have to be in tune and actually learn truly learn what your family is all about: the good, the bad, and the ugly. The happy, and what hurts. It took me more tears than anything, and I am still learning, and none of that can be bought.

LizBrokenArrow 02-09-2018 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1634933)
What is a a gringo?


Funny. A gringo is what some people call Caucasians in Spanish. It's no different than calling them pale faces. LOL.

wardancer 02-09-2018 05:52 PM

I like my answer better ! LOL

LizBrokenArrow 02-09-2018 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toolbox (Post 1634938)
You live in the wrong state/region if that all bothers you. You can always move to Rapid City, or the Phoenix metro area, which are both places where being ndn isn't the fashionably in thing to be...

Guilty as charged. It did bothered me "big time." Not because I think ndn may be the fashionably in thing or not, because I don't. I don't wear a badge saying who I am or what I am or am not. At first they thought I was Middle Eastern. I get that a lot and I never say anything. I just don't think it's cool being bullied, period.

This whole fiasco began when they asked me what part of the Middle East I am from and if I am Muslim. "I told them I'm not Muslim nor Middle Eastern, I am Native American." The rest is history. I am not condemning them. I understand their ignorance. I too was once blind by ignorance, but now I see clearly. People just still get on my nerves.

solitare 02-10-2018 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toolbox (Post 1634938)
You live in the wrong state/region if that all bothers you. You can always move to Rapid City, or the Phoenix metro area, which are both places where being ndn isn't the fashionably in thing to be...

.....where Joe and his boys ask nothing of Middle Eastern Descent. And, after that, there's a LOT more to ruffle the feathers about.

Joe's Dad 02-10-2018 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow (Post 1634969)
:confused:

Rapid City is close to Pine Ridge. From Phoenix Arizona it seems it is 200 km to the Navajo Nation Reservation.

Rapid City is 100 miles (160km) from Pine Ridge. Ever been to Lakota Homes?

wanjica_the_one 02-10-2018 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LizBrokenArrow (Post 1634974)
Funny. A gringo is what some people call Caucasians in Spanish. It's no different than calling them pale faces. LOL.

They're also called "gavachos" or "hueros culeros."

Broken Arrow 02-11-2018 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1634988)
Rapid City is 100 miles (160km) from Pine Ridge. Ever been to Lakota Homes?


Distances which due to my experience I consider as a middle range you might regard as short distance. Rapid City to Red Shirt is 65 km or 40 miles

In the far west of Germany? >ou are joking, LOL

Serious, no not as far as I know. Perhaps some Lakota live in Bayern, Hessen or Rheinland-Pfalz.

I can assume the condition of a majority Lakota Houses on the Reservations by what little I know at the same time their will be Lakota Homes which are in better shape. Yet all will have a common spirit or culture dimension.

That is comparable to homes in the different regions of Germany and you can tell mostly by the Houses where you are in Germany.

Except the municipial areas and where in the course of the bombing in the Second World War complete districts have been wiped out. I can remember the heaps of rubble and holes in the street fronts even 15 years after the war.

LOL, the house where I lived first had earth closets and that in the middle of the village which is now a small town of 30.000. There were no modern sanitary installations and heating of what the kids of today take as granted wide spread until 1970.

OLChemist 02-11-2018 01:42 PM

Um, @Broken Arrow, Lakota Homes is a subdivision of Section 8 (subsidized housing for low income families)in North Rapid, near Rushmore Mall.

In 1972, a dam burst during a heavy rain storm releasing water in the Rapid Creek. Rapid City, Keystone and some other downstream town flooded. This is one of the top five most deadly river floods in US history. Close to 250 people were killed in Rapid City. One of the very hard hit areas was a part of town with a very large Native population. Somewhere around half the people killed were Native. (Roughly 5% of the population of Rapid City at that time was Native.). After the flood, the Rapid bought out homeowners to relocate businesses and entire communities off the floodplain. If I recall correctly, Lakota Homes was built in the aftermath.

Broken Arrow 02-11-2018 03:10 PM

Humph, thanks OL Chemist. I let Joe's Dad sent me in the wrong direction.:angel:

I have never been in the USA. What I can see by google street view, except for the middle school and the church, houses everywhere in Rapid City are of a different kind as what I am used too.

Looks as if water is normally in shortage and the sun burning hot.

Have the flooded houses been build where a flood could be expected?

Devastating for the residents. There is a list of victims on the internet.


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