Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree106Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Ask PowWows.com Native American Creation Stories Native American Creation Stories

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-29-2015, 01:57 AM   #1
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
Native American Creation Stories

Hello! How is everyone?

I'll just introduce myself as "Acadian". I'm from Canada and non-native (as far as I know?). There is only so much they taught us in school. When I was a little kid growing up there were First Nations people that lived all around my town. They've all moved away though and I mean all of them. Otherwise I would ask them personally. I understand treaty rights and the modern concerns and what's going on at least in Canada between the State itself and First Nations and am ever the activist in these regards.

However that's not what I would like to talk about right now (Though am always open to discuss such things any time and to learn from my Native brethren and sisters. I'd like to get to know the cultures, stories. practices, rituals, beliefs etc. of the many Nations that make up North America.

Specifically First Nations "Creation Stories", for this thread at least. I'll be asking other specific questions in specific threads in the future. If no one minds!

So if anyone would like to tell me the stories or direct me somewhere to read or watch or listen to authentic First Nations tales, stories, myths etc etc. That would be great! I've searched the net and to my dismay there isn't much material out there on First Nations.

I would maybe take a trip to a Reserve here or different Reserves from different Nations however I'm not sure how I'll be received? It's hard to gauge the relationship between Non-Native and First Nation these days.

Ah but to the point. If anyone wants to answer could you perhaps answer in this way:

Your "Native" name and (its meaning here in brackets)<< If you want u dont have to :)

Your Nation/Tribe

Your Nation's story of Creation.

Now I may have made myself look completely stupid for not asking the question first: "Do all First Nations have the same Creation Story"?

Thanks for your time! Looking forward to some replies =D

Last edited by Acadian; 09-29-2015 at 02:18 AM..
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 03:24 AM   #2
small bead addict
 
subeeds's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresentDolphinRainbow
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
subeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond repute
subeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond reputesubeeds has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Georgia
Posts: 3,042
Blog Entries: 1
Credits: 44,676.96
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
Hello! How is everyone?

I'll just introduce myself as "Acadian". I'm from Canada and non-native (as far as I know?). There is only so much they taught us in school. When I was a little kid growing up there were First Nations people that lived all around my town. They've all moved away though and I mean all of them. Otherwise I would ask them personally. I understand treaty rights and the modern concerns and what's going on at least in Canada between the State itself and First Nations and am ever the activist in these regards.

However that's not what I would like to talk about right now (Though am always open to discuss such things any time and to learn from my Native brethren and sisters. I'd like to get to know the cultures, stories. practices, rituals, beliefs etc. of the many Nations that make up North America.

Specifically First Nations "Creation Stories", for this thread at least. I'll be asking other specific questions in specific threads in the future. If no one minds!

So if anyone would like to tell me the stories or direct me somewhere to read or watch or listen to authentic First Nations tales, stories, myths etc etc. That would be great! I've searched the net and to my dismay there isn't much material out there on First Nations.

I would maybe take a trip to a Reserve here or different Reserves from different Nations however I'm not sure how I'll be received? It's hard to gauge the relationship between Non-Native and First Nation these days.

Ah but to the point. If anyone wants to answer could you perhaps answer in this way:

Your "Native" name and (its meaning here in brackets)<< If you want u dont have to :)

Your Nation/Tribe

Your Nation's story of Creation.

Now I may have made myself look completely stupid for not asking the question first: "Do all First Nations have the same Creation Story"?

Thanks for your time! Looking forward to some replies =D

I don't know where to begin to answer this. No, not all Nations have the same creation story. There may be some similarities between certain Nations, but they are all unique to the Nation. As for the rest of your questions...

A lot of what you ask is stereotypical. I am half Cheyenne. My Grandfather had a naming ceremony for me when I was a child. No, I will not tell you my "Native" name. Again, that's stereotyping. Many Nations also consider it the height of bad manners for a non-native to even ask.

Why do you even want to know these things that, since you say you aren't Native, aren't yours to know? You say you "are ever the activist". What does that mean?

Not trying to be rude, but we are not here to be encyclopedias for a thesis, as many seem to think.
__________________
Take nothing for granted. Life can change irrevocably in a heartbeat.

I will not feed the troll-well, I will try.
subeeds is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 03:46 AM   #3
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
Well I don't mean to be stereotypical. That's why I said it doesn't matter if someone puts their "native" name or not. The only reason I used "" or "native" is because I wasn't sure what to call it.

I'm not in University or anything like that and have no desire to make any thesis'. I just want to know/understand.

I am however a lover of history and cultures/peoples. And even though it may be offensive I want to know many things and perhaps its looked at as wrong of me but I don't believe knowledge is something that can/should be owned? That's just a personal philosophy though.

When I say I'm an activist I try to educate my fellow non-natives about things they were ignorant about or not taught. Things like the residential schools in Canada, treaty rights. I ridicule racists and correct misinformation. You know when you see people in comment sections claiming that the "Taxpayers shouldn't be funding the reserves anymore"? Crap like that? I attempt to school those types of ignoramus's into understanding that it's actually the other way around. I attempt to correct their misguided, state brainwashed take on history and things like land treaties and law.

But like I said I wasn't here to discuss things like that.

If no one will tell me then that's okay.

I guess I have my answer as to how well I would be received at a reserve as well....

I'm a friendly person. Not sure why there has to be so much mistrust right off the bat.

Alot of people are genuinely interested in First Nations. Not sure why we can't just all be friends? How are non-natives supposed to get involved or understand about things like "Idle No More" if you guys and gals won't even talk to us and shoot down the genuinely interested...

I'm not trying to be rude either.
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 05:24 AM   #4
.
 
Spiritflight's Avatar
 
Items TreePresentChange User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,992
Blog Entries: 3
Credits: 15,986.12
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
...but I don't believe knowledge is something that can/should be owned?
Was that a question or a statement? Which kind of knowledge do you mean, shouldn't be owned and owned or not owned by whome?
Spiritflight is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 05:36 AM   #5
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,399
Credits: 73,472.78
Savings: 0.00
Welcome to powwows.com. A willingness to learn is a good place to start. Would you like to understand why some of us find the questions you asked aggressive and off-putting, at best, and rude at worst? Or why Subseeds and myself feel dehumanized and stereotyped by your questions?

First, there is a huge ethos difference at in play here. You, as a product of your culture, are the proud inheritor of a particular mode of inquiry having roots in ancient Greece and European enlightenment. You learn by aggressive questions and regard all knowledge -- except trade secrets and state security secrets -- as areas of open enquiry. To paraphrase your post, knowledge should be freely available and belongs to all. And you assume this a universal truth.

Well, it is not.

Native cultures spring from different roots. For most of us, within our cultures, the modes of inquiry are different. Knowledge is owned and some is restricted. Like you, we too believe knowledge is power. For this reason, the sharing and transfer of many types of knowledge are governed by various rules. For example, some stories may only be told in certain seasons. Or they can only be told to men. Or some teachings can only be shared with those who have been initiated into particular religious orders. Or they are only intended to be shared with those of certain clans.

Does this explain why we may not welcome such questions, especially right out of the gate?

We as peoples have been subjected to intensive religious colonization. Missionaries came, asked what we believed and then told us we were wrong. The Spanish Inquisition got on boats and came to our shores. It put our men to death in their Kivas, it put our libraries to the torch, it leveled our temples and built its churches on their ruins, it burned our holy people and healers at the stake... Our grandparents and parents were torn from their families and forced to bow to a different god. Then came the anthros and the spiritual seekers. They asked us what we believed, and when we trusted took our knowledge and wrote books telling others what they thought we believed, distorting or profaning our traditions. They followed the holy people to the shrines and snuck back at night to steal them. Or they attended a sweat lodge, then went back to their city, wrote a book mixing our ways with a dash of Jung and pinch of appropriated Hinduism, hit the self-help circuit, got rich and now scream about their religious freedom when we complain.

Can you recognize the source of our anger? Can see why I or any other Native person might be unwilling to share?
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 06:38 AM   #6
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,399
Credits: 73,472.78
Savings: 0.00
Now, for the dehumanizing part.... This too is at the roots a collision of worldviews. Let me attempt to illustrate. Understand I'm basing what I'm going to say about your perspective on 12 years as a participant and eventual moderator on this forum, years working and teaching in college and university labs, and half a century as a unpaid and sometimes unwilling cultural educator. I apologize in advance for the presumptuousness of placing words in your mouth and assigning meanings to your actions. Please bear with me, there is a method to my madness.

Dominant culture POV:

I've found an online forum for learning about powwows and the arts associated with social dancing. This format obviously invites questions. So, I'll jump right in and ask some questions. But, these people are slapping for asking. How am I supposed to learn if I don't ask? Why wouldn't they discuss this? You can ask any preacher or priest what they believe and they'll tell you. Heck, with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and certain kinds of Evangelicals you DON'T have to ask and they'll tell you anyway...

I'm hurt. Can't they see I just wanted to learn, otherwise why would I have asked? Can't they see my intentions and actions are good? I'm on their side. I just wanted to teach others. Why can't we all just get along


The POV of one mixed-blood woman who is a unique product her ancestors many cultures and too many years in University:

Here we go again. Polite people, especially on a different culture's turf, keep their month closed and their eyes and ears open. You sit back and watch, until you know what is acceptable. After all not everyone has the same rules. Watch how they interact, learn the boundaries. Stay out of the way, until you are invited. Can't they see how we address each other? Can't they see we don't talk about those subject in causal conversation?

Already, she/he has assigned blame to us. Why can't we be friends? Does she/he sit next to a stranger at the bus stop and strike up a conversation with, "tell me about your deeply held religious convictions"? Does he/she then get all offended when that person gets up and moves to a seat further down the bench? Why can't they take to time to learn about us as individuals?

Did I get it right? Or did I stereotype you as a bumbling, nosey wasicu? How did it feel to be treated as a group, rather than a person? Did I illustrate my point or just enhance my reputation as a big green meanie?


We are all blinkered by our own culture. But, in my experience, especially people from the Euro-American view point. So many of your cultural institutions have been aggressive exported and willingly and unwillingly adopted planet wide, that it is easy to assume aspects of your viewpoint are universal. But, some of the most basic assumptions are not.

If you want to learn about us, first learn about individual Native persons. Once you have that relationship, then you will know what you can and can't ask. Then can come the deeper things.

Last edited by OLChemist; 09-29-2015 at 08:51 AM.. Reason: Ouch, atrocious grammar - again.
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 06:44 AM   #7
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
Thanks for the welcome :)

I am always willing to learn. That's why I asked.. It would seem I asked in the wrong way. And I'm sorry for that I didn't mean to be offensive or dehumanize anyone or treat anyone like an encyclopedia.

This leads to better understanding though, which is what I was looking for.. As for Ethos I would agree there is a difference somewhat. I would agree to some extent that I am a product of my culture the "European" culture. I guess I do ask questions bluntly to get to answers faster. But I don't look to acquire knowledge for power. For me knowledge becomes wisdom and understanding and for me I consider all knowledge should be used for peace and prosperity(properity being a good life, not material wealth). I've found throughout my life that secrets divide and do more harm than good.

That being said, I understand now that there are rules or customs as to how, when and to who these stories and knowledge are passed. And I wouldn't presume to attempt to violate those things. You explained perfectly why such questions aren't welcome off the bat.

Do you see how it can "dehumanize" and stereotype me to consider me only a product of my culture though? I am much more than that. As are you. I'm also an individual. Like you. An individual who happens to care deeply about the First Nations. And indeed I try to care about all people... Though the task is practically impossible.

I know all about colonization, thus the name "Acadian". I know what the British, Spanish and the 13 Colonies, soon to be America did. I know what the churches did. I stopped going to church when I was 12/13 as I grew up and learned my history. That's really the only reason I ask these things, for the truth. I've seen videos on youtube that explain the story of Turtle Island and creation but I wanted to ask to make sure I knew all the true stories.

I don't discount any of the things my ancestors did. I condemn it all, I am ashamed at how things are still going. And THAT being said I didn't come here to absolve the sins of my ancestors. There is no way I could do that and as far as I know my ancestors fought along side the First Nations throughout the history of Europeans landing. I'm also such a mixed breed/mutt that I probably have a little bit of every "nationality" in me.

The reason I place such a high price on knowledge is all the help it can provide to others. There are technologies that are completely sustainable and environmentally harmonious that can be developed all over the world where it's needed.

Another reason I really wanted to ask is that in this specific video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGTln59YZj8

Talks about how one of the main things said is that the creator passed on "Unconditional Love"

Growing up a Christian I found that intriguing.

I hope no one hates me for being such. I'm not here to convert anyone or tell you that you're wrong or your peoples are wrong. In fact I would say you are right.

I'm also not here to take things I learn and twist them with my own beliefs. Or go around spreading misinformation or some skewed version of your cultures.

Hopefully you better understand me now. I understand where you're coming from. I mean no harm and come in peace.
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 06:46 AM   #8
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,399
Credits: 73,472.78
Savings: 0.00
Now, its my turn to ask a couple direct questions. I'm allowed; after all I have a Welsh great grandmother. (Actual Scots and German ones too.) LOL.

Why do you need to know about our Creation to understand Idle No More? Isn't knowing about our history enough to understand our anger and activism? Isn't having some sense of the magnitude of loss and injury within our communities enough to get it?


I'll hush now and try to crawl back in my oh so hot bed. Got to love fall in TX, 90F and a broken AC, LOL.
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 06:51 AM   #9
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
If you want to learn about us, first learn about individual Native persons. Once you have that relationship, then you will know what you can and can't ask. Then can come the deeper things.
That was the plan.. I was hoping to strike up individual conversations. Like we're having now I guess.

I apologize I went about it in the wrong way. I was excited I finally found a First Nations forum to ask questions I didn't put a big amount of time into wording it I just wanted to get the question out there.
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 07:02 AM   #10
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Now, its my turn to ask a couple direct questions. I'm allowed; after all I have a Welsh great grandmother. (Actual Scots and German ones too.) LOL.

Why do you need to know about our Creation to understand Idle No More? Isn't knowing about our history enough to understand our anger and activism? Isn't having some sense of the magnitude of loss and injury within our communities enough to get it?


I'll hush now and try to crawl back in my oh so hot bed. Got to love fall in TX, 90F and a broken AC, LOL.

Idle No More I understand. I guess I worded that all wrong too. I meant to say how are others supposed to understand. I follow current events and issues all over the world and not just Canada/North America. First Nations have a special place in my heart. When I was a kid I was around them (and I am not trying to say "them" in a bad way) all the time. I remember being between 3-5 yrs of age being at a Drum Circle near Georgian Bay Ontario.

When I grew up all the Native Peoples were gone. I wasn't old enough when I was a kid to ask them about their Nation or their history.

That's what I really want to know. Is culture and history Pre-Colonization. I am a firm believer that with at least half if not more of the decision making that goes on includes First Nations people this continent would be a better place and the world itself would benefit. There is so much to learn about keeping the Earth and Humanity healthy that I believe First Nations have to teach everyone else. And I believe I've only scratched the surface in what I think I know/have researched/looked up.

I am Welsh partly, that is 100% for sure! Lol Weldon would be my surname if not for my Father.

I would speak to First Nations if any lived near me but like I said they all moved away sometime between when I was growing up and when I came back to my hometown.

It would seem I don't really belong anywhere.... Not that that's what I'm looking for either. I am a loner at heart and hope to live in the wilderness with myself and my dog one day, atleast I hope thats how the end of my days play out.

Perhaps I talk too much? It is my day off and I have had a couple of drinks. Maybe I should shut up eh?
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 07:11 AM   #11
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritflight View Post
Was that a question or a statement? Which kind of knowledge do you mean, shouldn't be owned and owned or not owned by whome?
I meant it to be both a question and a statement. I mean knowledge that can help bring people together or help others. I don't mean privacy or private knowledge.

Which I now understand First Nations histories, parables, stories and lessons are much more personal than I thought.

Apologies.
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 07:22 AM   #12
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,399
Credits: 73,472.78
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
Thanks for the welcome :)

I am always willing to learn.
Nice to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
Do you see how it can "dehumanize" and stereotype me to consider me only a product of my culture though? I am much more than that.
That was kind of my point.

But, you are a product of your culture. As am I. All cultures have their blind points. One of the biggies in the dominant culture is good intentions override all. As I recall, a road to a rather undesirable location was paved in those, LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
I know all about colonization, thus the name "Acadian". I know what the British, Spanish and the 13 Colonies, soon to be America did. I know what the churches did. I stopped going to church when I was 12/13 as I grew up and learned my history. That's really the only reason I ask these things, for the truth.
The other thing we are products of, is our history. I don't get a pass from the effects of my people's history. But you should?

I really do understand what you are trying to do. Honest -- uh -- something. You're saying I'm not the problem, that was other people or my ancestors but not me. But, try to look at it from the viewpoint of some Native people. It sounds like you're telling us: "My people were oppressed (for a time). I got over. You need to too."

In my experience forgive and forget, is a product of the Christian worldview. It isn't real big in a lot of other cultures. Mine focuses on restitution. You acknowledge your responsibility -- even if it was only as a relative of the transgressor -- and try to heal the breach. It seems to me, people from the dominant culture, want absolution. "It wasn't us, and even if the effects are still felt, we have no part in it." The effect is to delegitimate our suffering and in many of our worldviews block any real healing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
..But I don't look to acquire knowledge for power. For me knowledge becomes wisdom and understanding and for me I consider all knowledge should be used for peace and prosperity(properity being a good life, not material wealth). I've found throughout my life that secrets divide and do more harm than good.
Understand, it's nothing personal. It just the way our Creator and Powers taught our peoples to handle such knowledge. It isn't always such great shakes for us either. But, you don't just change certain things without grave consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
That being said, I understand now that there are rules or customs as to how, when and to who these stories and knowledge are passed. And I wouldn't presume to attempt to violate those things.
That kind of attitude will go a long way.


Let me offer one other piece of advice: In the dominant culture explanation of the reason of a transgression of rule or norms, is often given in an attempt to mitigate intention. Native people are often like parents, they don't want to hear any excuses. Often a direct acknowledgement of the wrong is better received. And hey, another learning opportunity, you can often ask for instruction in how to avoid giving such offense again. A world a gems have come my way from such direct acknowledgements and requests to be taught how to behave appropriately.


Yikes, I need to get the AC fixed, so I can get a good night sleep. I'm rambling, LOL.

Last edited by OLChemist; 09-29-2015 at 08:00 AM.. Reason: Autocomplete and sleep deprivation is a great combination.
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 07:29 AM   #13
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,399
Credits: 73,472.78
Savings: 0.00
BTW, this forum is moderated. Posts must be approved. Hence, some the lag in responses.
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 07:36 AM   #14
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
"I really do understand what you are trying to do. Honest -- uh -- something. You're saying I'm not the problem, that was other people or my ancestors but not me. But, try to look at it from the viewpoint of some Native people. It sound like you telling us: "My people were oppressed (for a time). I got over. You need to too."

In my experience forgive and forget, is a product of the Christian worldview. It isn't real big in a lot of other cultures. Mine focuses on restitution. You acknowledge your responsibility -- even if it was only as a relative of the transgressor -- and try to heal the breach. It seems to me, people from the dominant culture, want absolution. "It wasn't us, and even if the effects are still felt, we have no part in it." The effect is to delegitimate our suffering and in many of our worldviews block any real healing."


I swear I'm not trying to do that. That's one of the very things I'm against. I don't know any of my ancestors that were oppressed. I'm certainly not one to tell anyone to get over anything and that you need to as well. Not at all. I don't mean you should forgive and forget. Forgive maybe, but never forget. I can't absolve myself of something my ancestors did ever. I wasn't there. Restitution means moving forward. If I was alive back then you can be sure I would have fought and died alongside the First Nations if they would have had me.

I can apologize til the cows come home. I don't care to own land or anyones land. I just want to live in peace and for my fellow human beings to be happy.

I know for certain that my birthplace of Canada will fall apart in the near future if we as separate peoples don't start working together. There are those of us "white' europeans many more than you would think, that want to see restitution for your peoples, we want to get things on the right track.

You live in the USA so I am not sure the situation down there as much as up here..

If restitution means walking into the ocean and leaving than so be it. I would leave.

I only stay in North America because I care about First Nations and my own people as well. And the future of this Nation and North America..

So what is the best way to start a conversation then? Perhaps I should just butt out eh? I'm not sure what to do... I want to get to know as many First Nations people as I can AS Individuals... Should I just go to the Reserve? Say hi? Maybe bring some picnic/lunch or have a BBQ or something?

Perhaps I've just had too much to drink
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 07:48 AM   #15
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
The only way I can offer any restitution. As an individual, for what my Ancestors did is to help change the present/future.

Where you strive to hold onto your ancestry (at least that is what I gather) I strive to lose mine.

I am not like other white/anglo/europeans. All I can do is help you fight the good fight in the here and now. Unless I can understand what you mean by restitution that is all I can really do.

I am in no way trying to absolve what happened. I firmly stand behind the fact that it wasn't me and that I do all I know how to do to change and make things right here and now..

Show/Tell me a better way?

Last edited by Acadian; 09-29-2015 at 08:08 AM..
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 11:21 AM   #16
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,399
Credits: 73,472.78
Savings: 0.00
At the risk of talking way too much, I'd like to comment on something I find very hard to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
If I was alive back then you can be sure I would have fought and died alongside the First Nations if they would have had me.
It's far to easy to sit where we are, in a very privileged temporal and sociological space, and denounce the decisions of our antecedents. One thing I've learned in my study of history, is just how far from my door the wolves of disease, starvation and violence are.
All of our ancestors (and a not insignificant portions of the current population of the Earth) lived in worlds which were much more dangerous and painful than we in developed world understand. Even now it takes little to strip away the veneer of civilization. (If you doubt me, you should have heard the rhetoric down here in TX when we had a 3 person Ebola outbreak.)

People move into dangerous hubris when they quickly assume that these reactions, prejudices and primal fears are gone from us. The quickest way to indulge our basest passions, is to assume ourselves free of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
Where you strive to hold onto your ancestry (at least that is what I gather) I strive to lose mine.
Hmmm. Seems a bit like throwing away the baby with the bath water. Again, let me indulge my fondness for my own voice:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Each Native person alive today, stands at the end of a string of ancestors who made heart-breaking, life and death decisions to preserve their lives and legacies that we might actually be walking this earth today. We owe it to our children to understand and respect -- as best we as denizens of a very corseted age are able -- their decisions both good and bad. For within that context comes our history and surviving culture. For within that context we will make our own decisions about what to pass on to our descendants and what to leave behind. We are free to believe we would have made different decisions. But, we are not free to treat their sacrifices with disrespect. That, in my opinion, is a rejection of values basic to every Native culture I have encountered.
This is true for all people. My European ancestors weren't burning Pequots at Mystic River, holding a gun at Sand Creek, taking Cherokee land in Georgia, or wielding a scalpel to sterilize Native women. But they weren't standing in the way. I am a product of people who failed to act and thereby tacitly endorsed. Understanding this tempers my judgement. Throwing away your history, is to risk throwing away your conscience. It is to uproot yourself. It is very un-Native.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
I am not like other white/anglo/europeans.... I am in no way trying to absolve what happened. I firmly stand behind the fact that it wasn't me and that I do all I know how to do to change and make things right here and now.
Actually, if you knew how often Native people hear non-Native assert this, you drop the claim to uniqueness :) It is the norm, rather than the exception. I've never had one announce: "I'm just like old Colonel Chivington."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
So what is the best way to start a conversation then? Perhaps I should just butt out eh? I'm not sure what to do... I want to get to know as many First Nations people as I can AS Individuals... Should I just go to the Reserve? Say hi? Maybe bring some picnic/lunch or have a BBQ or something?
How do you make any kind of friend?

Just remember, it can be really weird to have someone interested in you just because of your DNA. Would there be a lot of common ground if I tried to pursue a friendship with you, just because I wanted to know all about Canadians? My culture may be really cool and unique to you, but to me it's a little like breathing -- don't really notice and don't really want to spend all my time thinking about it. Common interests what people share.
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 11:56 AM   #17
Pow Wow Committee
 
gilisi's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,871
Credits: 70,238.55
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
I know for certain that my birthplace of Canada will fall apart in the near future if we as separate peoples don't start working together.
What you said here is true; and then you used the word "restitution".

Its always funny to me when Indians pull out there paperwork LOL..
*As I pull mine out*

I picture my grandmother, and her daughter of 6 years. The two of them were raped and murdered at the same time. How would you propose restitution be paid for this? Would you give more money? Help with housing? Food? Would you mow our lawns?

Can you bring them back?

I mean this with respect; perhaps to help you solidify your own motives and purpose in your desire to help the first nations people.
__________________
When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

"Show me somethin"
gilisi is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 12:12 PM   #18
Me & Eyes are the best !
 
wardancer's Avatar
 
Items DevilPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: S.E.Kansas (again) LOL
Posts: 16,011
Credits: 72,669.65
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
Thanks for the welcome :)

Another reason I really wanted to ask is that in this specific video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGTln59YZj8

Talks about how one of the main things said is that the creator passed on "Unconditional Love"

Growing up a Christian I found that intriguing.

I hope no one hates me for being such. I'm not here to convert anyone or tell you that you're wrong or your peoples are wrong. In fact I would say you are right.

I'm also not here to take things I learn and twist them with my own beliefs. Or go around spreading misinformation or some skewed version of your cultures.

Hopefully you better understand me now. I understand where you're coming from. I mean no harm and come in peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadian View Post
That was the plan.. I was hoping to strike up individual conversations. Like we're having now I guess.

I apologize I went about it in the wrong way. I was excited I finally found a First Nations forum to ask questions I didn't put a big amount of time into wording it I just wanted to get the question out there.
That video was mildly amusing and had some basis in truth , even though it was a production with it's own disclaimer as to origin:
Uploaded on Dec 16, 2008
[Commissioned for the 2008 First Nations Folklorama Pavilion; this video presentation tells one version of the aboriginal story of creation.] And it doesn't specify a particular Tribe and watching it I saw several stories had been "blended" That's what typically happens when we tell outsiders anything !

As far as the "christian" thing.....yes , I hate you for that.....well , no I don't hate you , I just have no use for you ! I really don't waste much time "hating" anyone or anything. If you wonder why , I'll offer my version in one easy statement. There is not one Native American/Indian/ First Nations person that has not lost some part of their family in the name of christianity. We existed for lots of years without any help from christianity and our systems worked great.( many tribes , many beliefs) No one was forced. Outsiders came and demanded we accept "their ways" and if we didn't , we died. One way or another. That's "unconditional love " for you !
I understand you and you may "go in peace"
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
wardancer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 02:04 PM   #19
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post

How do you make any kind of friend?

Just remember, it can be really weird to have someone interested in you just because of your DNA. Would there be a lot of common ground if I tried to pursue a friendship with you, just because I wanted to know all about Canadians? My culture may be really cool and unique to you, but to me it's a little like breathing -- don't really notice and don't really want to spend all my time thinking about it. Common interests what people share.
I don't make many friends these days. By choice. It has nothing to do with DNA but culture and spirituality. I am no NAZI or eugenicist.

I respect that you don't want to think about it. I guess I am where I shouldn't be. I apologize for even posting here.
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-29-2015, 02:16 PM   #20
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Acadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scaleAcadian is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11
Credits: 263.13
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilisi View Post
What you said here is true; and then you used the word "restitution".

Its always funny to me when Indians pull out there paperwork LOL..
*As I pull mine out*

I picture my grandmother, and her daughter of 6 years. The two of them were raped and murdered at the same time. How would you propose restitution be paid for this? Would you give more money? Help with housing? Food? Would you mow our lawns?

Can you bring them back?

I mean this with respect; perhaps to help you solidify your own motives and purpose in your desire to help the first nations people.
I didn't use the word restitution at first. I didn't bring it up. If what I say is true why doesn't it happen?

Hearing that about your grandmother and her daughter disheartens me and appalls me. But what can I do about it now that it happened? That is what I meant by how am I to pay restitution?

I can't bring them back and I would never assume that I could. Of course not.

Money wont do anything ever. Housing can be done, sewage and water and electricty systems all nature friendly too
can be done. First Nations influence in north american direction can be done. But you can't do it alone. No offense.

Tyranny is something I abhor most likely more than anyone. And I stand by that.

However. I came here expecting something that maybe isn't.

I never meant to offend anyone.

I guess it's time to leave "humanity/fellow man and woman" behind. No one wants to get along or understand each other.

It would seem that I've wasted 14 years at least trying and hoping that we could all solve this together.

I now realize that there is nothing to be done. And I am going to leave "humanity" behind forever. There is no plan or future no one really wants to help each other...

I'm finished.

Good luck in your lives! I wish you all a fare well! Be safe.
Acadian is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A New Cable Network Wepunkwteme Native Issues 0 08-17-2006 07:59 PM
NIH News release re: Native American Children AMotherCares Health Issues 0 12-26-2005 05:14 PM
Native Americans - lost and found hatfield589 Native Issues 1 08-23-2005 10:50 PM
Family asks police to pay for Native teen's death Smokin' Ace Native Issues 0 01-14-2005 10:27 AM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery