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One question about religion.
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#41 |
Pow Wow Visitor
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I found your comment rude and judgmental.... Lots of drink white people ..I see them more often ! Break someones spirit it is not so easy to heal after...
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#42 | |
Pow Wow Visitor
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#43 | |
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To my understanding it could have been said in a more understandable way, I see it like this, God says - for instance, do not do any harm to others (I suppose selfdefence is okay) - so if you live peacefully and help others if you can, then you live in peace (heaven) or else, if you like to purposely do wrong you'll have to face the consequences (you'd live in hell) as those who you would harm may have others who'd harm you back. Also it says somewhere God is a God for the living not for the dead. Simply said. You'll only face hell on earth for as long as you live when you keep doing harm, as the consequences aren't likely to make you happy. |
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#44 | |
Pow Wow Visitor
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I just wanted to applaud you for speaking up as you did in your comment ! You are like me in many ways and just say it plainly and no beating around the bush way ! I agree totally that the bible is the soul contributor to most of the violence in this world and history. It definitely was the OT God who influenced and even ordered regularly the annihilation of a group of people for being different. These Christians and Government who did this to the NA people were only doing what their God has always told them to do throughout the OT bible...murder ! I am non Native American..my niece and nephew are though and my boyfriend who 100% is now my ex..he chose the Christian religion over me as I walked away from it because of what happened to his people ! I thought he would be happy that I am on his peoples side and speaking up...but in stead he walked away from me ? But I am on a mission to speak out against this religion and its evils now and nothing can stop me ! I am even more pumped up to do this since this same religion destroyed my 5 year relationship with my man ! Do you still believe in a Creator ( Great spirit) like your ancestors did ? I want to prey for my man to open his eyes and come out if this wicked religion and even come back to me who loves him...I want to prey to the Creator that his own ancestors worshiped and maybe even if his ancestors can hear me from the spirit world they can help him also....What do you think..I am asking because I don't know what else to do an feel helpless ? Just because the OT God is evil or fake doesn't mean there is no Creator or Great Spirit ... ![]() ![]() |
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#45 | |
Pow Wow Visitor
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#46 | |
Dances With Fat Chicks
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but if you keep reading his posts he is also in total agreement with us heathen anti-christians, which leads me to believe that he likes playing devil's advocate at times and i wouldnt confine buttholism to just christians but to all abrahamic religions......judea, isslam AND christianity....all 3 of them worship the same god....all 3 of them are theological supremists that thrived and still thrive on colonization and conversion
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"I on the trail of a possible good Indian lady and she is reported to like the old way's and she to believes in big family and being at home with kids all the time"... - MOTOOPI aka WOUNDED BEAR ![]() Last edited by milehighsalute; 05-12-2014 at 05:31 PM.. |
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#47 | |
Pow Wow Visitor
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If they..like any of us.. lived a decent life and good to others....we will be in a good place after also ! Thanks again !! |
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#48 | |
Pow Wow Committee
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The bible I read actually agrees with you, and as far as that post you reprimanded me about... The Indian I was talking about was myself. People put God in a box, in fact it clearly tells people NOT to condemn other people to hell when they don't even understand their beliefs. "Don't judge lest you be judged, and with the measure you use to judge others you yourself will be judged" Regardless of what you believe, for me I demonstrated my desire to live a better life by getting into the bible, and it helped. Mind you, I was also feeling a bit defensive cause my friend called my beliefs "caca" LOL I am just now beginning to learn what it really means for me to be NDN, about my inheritance.
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When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid. "Show me somethin" |
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#49 | |
Champion Dancer
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[QUOTE=Galaxygayle;1598286]
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I am aware of the past traumas created by a church who sought to evangelize and I am also aware of the current attempts to apologize for past atrocities and to reconcile as well as bring awareness to ensure those atrocities never happen again. Perhaps you could join in some of those committees and help them to find their way toward greater awareness? I thought the bible was confusing too.Just as I found my children's traditional beliefs confusing as well. But I learned through study that it is confusing when it is foreign. Once I learned how to study properly then it came into a greater context for me to understand. And now I see no discrepancy. But rest assured with proper study I came away with a beautiful faith that looks nothing like what most portray Christianity to be. So this is the place I have come to in regard to this issue. It leaves me with questions. Just as many non reverent, disrespectful, greed filled people have culturally raped the American Indian, I wonder if it is possible that those same types may have culturally raped Christianity for their own gain too. I want to ask this next question to look at a different perspective. Is it possible that through the lens of generational trauma that many Native people reject Christianity (I know that's a resounding YES! and I would too if I were you) but doing so could be equal to someone pointing a finger at James Arthur Ray and calling Native traditions and beliefs wicked because of his wannabe acts? My statements here are meant to reflect my own thoughts as I am trying to process much on this subject. I raise these questions for myself as I am trying to learn and grow. Any thoughts? |
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#50 |
Pow Wow Visitor
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When Jesus gave what Christians call the "Great Commission" to share the "Good News" to the ends of the earth, I don't think he ever meant for people to go to other places and force conversions, like so many people did in the past
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#51 |
Pow Wow Visitor
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I didn't mention in my last post, but I think that in order to understand the Bible properly, it's important to distinguish that the Old Testament was given specifically for the nation of Israel, and the New Testament was given for Christians. It's still in the Bible because Christians believe it is inspired (though not prescriptive to us), and because it paints a complete picture of redemptive history from creation to the end of the world. However, if you want to learn about Christian beliefs and how Christians ought to live and treat others, go to the New Testament.
That is why we would see it as wrong to go into other lands and drive people out. Because we aren't supposed to! That was a one-time thing involving Israel, but it is not applicable today. Not saying this to suggest anyone should embrace Christianity, but I think it's an important distinction to make in case someone wants to learn more about Christian beliefs. |
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#52 | |
The voices tell me...
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when you cross to the other side, where does the spirit go of a non-Christian Indian?
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat? "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder". Mr. Rossie Freeman |
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#53 |
Pow Wow Visitor
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Our belief is that, because of sin, no one (regardless of race, culture, etc.) is able to stand before the Creator (who is holy and therefore cannot tolerate sin in his presence) on judgment day. But God was merciful and sent Christ to die in our place as a substitute for our sin (in other words, when God judges us, he sees Christ and what he did in place of our sin). We believe that this was given as a gift, and the Bible promises that for anyone who is willing to trust in Christ, rather than themselves, to receive forgiveness of sin, that they will be saved. So, we do not believe salvation is achieved on a merit of being a good person or doing good works; but rather realizing that we cannot save ourselves by doing good works and turning to Christ instead.
That sums up what we believe in a nutshell :). What about you guys...what do you believe about sin and salvation |
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#54 | |
Powwow Dude
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Natives have so many beliefs and traditions literally hundreds, And yet we had to be saved! The Christian God is such a jealous god and now the religion has splintered into so many different sects. I often wonder if it had been Muslems who brought European Religion to our shore what the difference would have been?? Or of the Buddhist faith... LoL So narrow minded can only be one, such a jealous god
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ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi Till I Die! |
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#55 | ||
The voices tell me...
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I ask it in a good way with no malice. It should be read the same way.
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat? "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder". Mr. Rossie Freeman |
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#56 |
Pow Wow Visitor
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Thanks for your reply, Josiah :).
Definitely won't argue with you there (about the Judeo-Christian God being jealous). He even says that he is a jealous God when he gives the ten commandments to the Israelites in the Old Testament. We'd say that since he's the maker of the whole universe, he has the right to be jealous of having his creatures worship him alone. Since sin is a Judeo-Christian concept, I'm wanting to know what you guys believe about the afterlife? Do you believe there is some type of heaven, or place you go after you die? Does everyone go there, or only those who lived good lives? Sorry for so many questions (and please let me know if my questions are annoying or offensive...I definitely don't intend them to be). Cheers :) Melissa PS...I see you're from Oklahoma...are you a Sooner fan? That's where I went to school :) |
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#57 | |
Powwow Dude
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Or giving up all their customs, traditions, language for a god that only rewarded them when they died by living for eternity with those that brought this to them: disease, thievery, adultery, murder, and cruelty to all those that did not convert. It must have been maddness
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ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi Till I Die! |
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#58 |
Tiny Tot Dancer
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Thanks for a very interesting and thought provoking topic.
I’d like to share some of my thoughts, (and experience). I was brought up within the Christian faith but until the birth of my daughter, I can say that I was not Christian. My wife had a hard time at the birth and there was a very real possibility that we would lose the child and also that I would lose my wife. It was at this time that I prayed, and for the first time ever I really meant it and there was not anything selfish about it. I heard no voices or anything like that, but suddenly I knew that everything would be alright. I’ve not experienced anything like it since. I became a true Christian that day. I’ve given it a lot of thought (my daughter is now in her early 20’s). I’ve been asked, “Why are you a Christian” and my answer is above, but I’ve also been asked to think about many of the questions posed in this thread. I believe that Jesus Christ in human form is only one aspect of God. A god humans cannot ever fully understand. Jesus was one of two people to return from the dead, there may be more I don’t know about. By returning Jesus shows that (s)he/it is part of god and that there is more to life than this current existence. Jesus also says that that no-one can enter heaven unless though him. This is a tough one as this would imply that all persons before him and all those since that do not know him via ignorance aren’t in or can’t enter heaven. I’ve come to the conclusion that these words are not to be taken literally but refer to his teachings and striving to follow them. Since Jesus teaching were not new and have been floating around in some form as long as humans have existed, as such there is no-one that has not experienced these teachings from some source. Thus doing right (or at least trying to) will entitle anyone to enter heaven. I also have come to believe that the god of the old testament as written is a human corruption over many years, hence the intervention by Jesus (a new covenant, making the old testament obsolete). Other interventions have occurred since, thus Islam and the Mormans, whether these interventions have been a success or failure, real or fiction, I don’t know. I therefore have come to the conclusion these is only one God and each and everyone of us will face him upon our deaths. Our own personal Judgement Day, where we will be judged using rules some of which we created ourselves and have imposed upon others. I believe that God is a just god, any punishments will be fair and therefore hell is a relatively empty place. A just god would sentence no-one to an infinite punishment. I can think of many individuals who may have long sentences but not forever. Atheists are in for a surprise, a good one. The questions I’m currently struggling with are “Does time exist in heaven?” and “Are we all currently in hell”. K |
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#59 | |
Me & Eyes are the best !
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I returned to the ndn side of my family and started learning. Still learning ! I speak to the Creator several times a day. We're on good terms. He takes good care of me and I'm thankful for that.I do my best not to be a hypocrite , to keep my word , treat others fairly. I struggle with being judgmental, but I try. I have sat with relatives at their end and they told my they see others waiting for them. Waiting to help them on their journey. Others that had already passed years before.I don't pretend to know anything about the future. I don't know if we really "go" anywhere. Irregardless of that I intend to live my life as well as I can and hope that when my life here ends , my journey will continue elsewhere.
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance ! They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ? There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true ! ![]() Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life. It's not me....I think you're an idiot ! ![]() There's a chance you might not like me , but there's a bigger chance I won't care |
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#60 |
Me & Eyes are the best !
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My wife's cousin was talking the other day and said " I love you even though you aren't a christian", so my wife turned it right around and said " cuz , I love you even though you are a christian!" LOL
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance ! They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ? There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true ! ![]() Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life. It's not me....I think you're an idiot ! ![]() There's a chance you might not like me , but there's a bigger chance I won't care |
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