Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree26Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Ask PowWows.com Question about powwow pics Question about powwow pics

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-31-2013, 04:29 PM   #1
Ready to dance
 
wyo_rose's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Back and Forth
Posts: 16,510
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 63,056.53
Savings: 0.00
Question about powwow pics

This comes from an email to powwows.com:

What are the rules about taking pics at powwows?

Do you need a release from the subject to post and sell a pic from a powwow?

Any takers?

Thanks! I can probably come up with a good reply for the first question, but I have no idea about the legalities of the 2nd.
windanncer likes this.
__________________
...it is what it is...
wyo_rose is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-31-2013, 05:15 PM   #2
I pull your leg out!
 
Toolbox's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melmac
Posts: 6,000
Credits: 91,150.71
Savings: 0.00
Let me start off with the information below is as-is and I am not responsible for any wrong information below or any trouble you may get into for following the advice below.

The answer to the first question really is a matter of what the committee states in their flyers and what the emcee says. Usually at most powwows people can take as many pictures and videos as they want for the exception of a few "blackout" times, such as Grand Entry and if a feather drops.

As for release forms, commercial photographers and videographers will ask for a separate release to satisfy their legal department and lawyers. At some powwows when you register as a dancer, singer, or performer you usually sign a blanket photo/video release. In general if the powwow is taking place on public land, such as a park, you as a photographer have the right to take pictures of anything and anyone so long as you do not harass the person(s). If they tell you not to take a picture of them then you really shouldn't if you plan to publish it.

If you are taking a portrait of someone at a powwow, as in you specifically ask the individual to "model or pose" for you and your intent is to sell the picture to a stock site, magazine or a newspaper then you should really get their permission, get them to sign a release, and alert them to your intentions. If you take a photo of them performing that's a bit different. Most publishers are going to want to see the release forms for individuals if they are available as a matter of practice to keep the lawyers happy. You must also try your best to include an accurate description of the photo when you sell it to prevent libel. The link I am providing below has lots of good information on this subject as well as a few examples.

Finally, and I included this separately for a reason, if you ask to take a stand-alone picture with or of a dancer you may want to consider giving them an honorarium or a few dollars. To some this shows respect and sometimes even helps them pay for the gas they spent to get there.

http://asmp.org/tutorials/frequently...l#.UnK09yTk-bA
ac_miss and windanncer like this.
__________________
CERN may have discovered the Higgs Boson but...


Help Powwows.com provide better webcasts with wireless cameras by purchasing a decal for your car! We all know you love car decals, don't deny that you don't have them. This is you with a car decal -> http://www.powwows.com/2014/10/23/pow-wow-stickers/
Toolbox is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-31-2013, 05:24 PM   #3
Ready to dance
 
wyo_rose's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
wyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond reputewyo_rose has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Back and Forth
Posts: 16,510
Blog Entries: 2
Credits: 63,056.53
Savings: 0.00
*like*
__________________
...it is what it is...
wyo_rose is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 11-01-2013, 05:43 PM   #4
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,097
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 38,634.63
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
Let me start off with the information below is as-is and I am not responsible for any wrong information below or any trouble you may get into for following the advice below.

The answer to the first question really is a matter of what the committee states in their flyers and what the emcee says. Usually at most powwows people can take as many pictures and videos as they want for the exception of a few "blackout" times, such as Grand Entry and if a feather drops.

As for release forms, commercial photographers and videographers will ask for a separate release to satisfy their legal department and lawyers. At some powwows when you register as a dancer, singer, or performer you usually sign a blanket photo/video release. In general if the powwow is taking place on public land, such as a park, you as a photographer have the right to take pictures of anything and anyone so long as you do not harass the person(s). If they tell you not to take a picture of them then you really shouldn't if you plan to publish it.

If you are taking a portrait of someone at a powwow, as in you specifically ask the individual to "model or pose" for you and your intent is to sell the picture to a stock site, magazine or a newspaper then you should really get their permission, get them to sign a release, and alert them to your intentions. If you take a photo of them performing that's a bit different. Most publishers are going to want to see the release forms for individuals if they are available as a matter of practice to keep the lawyers happy. You must also try your best to include an accurate description of the photo when you sell it to prevent libel. The link I am providing below has lots of good information on this subject as well as a few examples.

Finally, and I included this separately for a reason, if you ask to take a stand-alone picture with or of a dancer you may want to consider giving them an honorarium or a few dollars. To some this shows respect and sometimes even helps them pay for the gas they spent to get there.

http://asmp.org/tutorials/frequently...l#.UnK09yTk-bA
Excellent Answer!
One thing to add:
I always ask for a Cheese Burger LoL
windanncer likes this.
__________________
ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
Till I Die!
Josiah is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-10-2014, 04:11 PM   #5
Journeyman
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Journeyman is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3
Credits: 127.03
Savings: 0.00
Similar question along the same thread...

I am a non-native photographer, I do sell images however I am not a full time pro and I am researching a body of work I have wanted to do for some time with Native Americans / First People's. This body of work would not be for sale however would be shown in a gallery type setting and I would provide all images for anything the individuals wanted me too how "sit" for the images. Be it for their community center, library, online anything.

I want to create images that depict the strength,resilience & beauty of the culture(s) as well as the connection/respect to/for the land.
So this inquiry is twofold. Is it acceptable for a non-native individual to approach individuals or groups for such an endeavor? and if so all suggestions on how to approach and learn about people or groups to see if they would participate are greatly appreciated. Thank you
Journeyman is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-10-2014, 05:07 PM   #6
Pow Wow Committee
 
OLChemist's Avatar
 
Items ElephantPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
OLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond reputeOLChemist has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,299
Credits: 69,211.02
Savings: 0.00
Journeyman, I mean no disrespect but I am going to give you an answer I doubt you're going to like. Before you consider doing something like this, you need to look at the bigger picture.

Native peoples have been studied, photographed, written about, imitated and outright displayed as dominant culture curiosities, since our favorite lost-white-guy, Columbus, took a few Tanios back to Spain to show off at court. Our grave goods and our ancestors' body parts and our stolen arts fill your museums and galleries. We've been E.S. Curtis-ed into posters for dorm rooms and calendars for the local travel agent.

Non-Native people have gotten grants, PhD's, one-man shows, lines of jewelry, and spots on CNN parading the latest in poverty porn from Pine Ridge. Non-Indian academics have built their reputations and careers on being "experts" on us. A thousand starving, non-Native artists make a living off chartreuse dream catchers, bad paintings of half naked buckskin clad maidens, and romantic lantern show photographs of Indians. All, while the accuracy of the viewpoint of Native academics is questioned. And the voices of our artists are smothered in the buckskin curtains of false imagery.

Always an outsider appoints himself to speak for us. We are represented, presented and interpreted until we are hopelessly lost in interpretation.

My rant above is a hyperbolic framing of the history of the outsider documenting Indians. It's point is not to accuse you, but to acquaint you with the historical baggage you will carry should you choose to continue with your project.

Before you work on how to get an introduction to a community, perhaps you should ask yourself the questions below, because I don't doubt that someone in your journey will ask you why are there.

1) Why do I think I am able (or even better able) to represent a community and culture of which I am not a part?

2) What presuppositions -- good and bad -- am I bringing to the table?

3) Do I feel, I can better interpret (I'm an artist as well as a scientist and know every act of public creation involves a level of interpretation) because I bring a superior level of: technical competence, objectivity, dominant culture savvy, etc to the table?

4) Why do I feel the need to do this?

5) Do I expect gratitude in return?

6) Am I just another missionary out to "save the Indian" albeit not from Hell this time?
windanncer, Toolbox and yaahl like this.
OLChemist is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-10-2014, 05:38 PM   #7
I pull your leg out!
 
Toolbox's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melmac
Posts: 6,000
Credits: 91,150.71
Savings: 0.00
Hi @Journeyman first of all welcome to Powwows.com!

Secondly in general follow the guidelines that I have outlined above. It is perfectly fine to ask someone or a group if you can take their pictures. It shows that you are at least extending them the courtesy of giving them a chance to say "NO" - however the Powwow world is so full of divas that some will jump at the opportunity to not only have their picture taken but to also be printed and hung in a gallery or as part of an exhibit. Some will say "YES" simply because if it's done right it will show the culture in a positive light as well as having some educational value as well. Just remember to always truthfully state your full intentions and anything that you are looking to display publicly you should try to get a release form signed.

Simply put you can just ask questions. A good idea is to offer a bit of tobacco to the person that you are asking, even if they tell you that they can't give you any information. Take small squares of felt or other fabric put some tobacco in the middle, the stuff you buy for pipes is fine, and then fold it up and tie the end together to keep it all together.

One thing that I can't stress enough is if someone tells you "NO" or they believe that you shouldn't be privileged to the answer do NOT argue the point simply accept it and say "Thank You, I understand". All too often people will come to this site and ask a question and when told NO they refuse to take it and argue the point until one of us MODs have to step in and shut down the thread and break up the argument.
windanncer likes this.
__________________
CERN may have discovered the Higgs Boson but...


Help Powwows.com provide better webcasts with wireless cameras by purchasing a decal for your car! We all know you love car decals, don't deny that you don't have them. This is you with a car decal -> http://www.powwows.com/2014/10/23/pow-wow-stickers/
Toolbox is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-11-2014, 04:07 PM   #8
I pull your leg out!
 
Toolbox's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melmac
Posts: 6,000
Credits: 91,150.71
Savings: 0.00
As luck would have it for you - there was an article in Indian Country Today Media Network about someone doing something similar to what you are asking. Read this article and understand what she did. In so few words she collaborated with a Salish poet. There are some really beautiful pictures on the site as well. People and Pageantry: 20 Eye-Popping Photos by Sue Reynolds - ICTMN.com
windanncer likes this.
__________________
CERN may have discovered the Higgs Boson but...


Help Powwows.com provide better webcasts with wireless cameras by purchasing a decal for your car! We all know you love car decals, don't deny that you don't have them. This is you with a car decal -> http://www.powwows.com/2014/10/23/pow-wow-stickers/
Toolbox is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-13-2014, 10:08 AM   #9
Journeyman
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Journeyman is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3
Credits: 127.03
Savings: 0.00
@OLChemist Thank you and no disrespect was taken. The questions are all ones I am still working through accept for 5 & 6. I look forward to open dialogue and insight before embarking on this, I do not enter into any body of work lightly and I appreciate your honest and direct insight regarding my question.
The answers to 5&6 are simple for me - I expect nothing other than the opportunity to learn from and make a connection with the individuals I photograph and I am not out to save anyone or group I simply want to insure I capture/create images that show people in a positive light. There is already too much negativity being promoted by the media.
windanncer likes this.
Journeyman is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-13-2014, 10:19 AM   #10
Journeyman
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Journeyman is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3
Credits: 127.03
Savings: 0.00
@Toolbox thank you for your reply. I am an ethical person/photographer and when told no I don't question it. When I captured an image of a dance in CT I worked through the State Park office who coordinated the educational program so I could contact the dancer to ask permission to show the image. I also provided prints to he and his mother as a gift. I appreciate your reply and advice.
windanncer likes this.
Journeyman is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-13-2014, 03:24 PM   #11
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
running_with_buffs has a reputation beyond repute
running_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: in the middle of the hood
Posts: 160
Credits: 2,080.18
Savings: 0.00
@tool you mentioned earlier about times when not to take pics. grand entry ? why not ? just wondering? and the feather dropping thing. if your at a big contest powwow aren't most people wearing those feathers to try and make some money? js, I thought grand entry was a borrowed concept from rodeos, used to be just the calling song and bam you was dancing, so no pictures during grand entry I say go ahead that's what it was made for. contest powwows aren't anything like the way they started out to be. I know different tribes have different ways about picking up feathers, I used to hear from some elders things break pick it up and keep dancing or let the whip man pick it up and keep on dancing. so I guess take pictures when ever you want to at a contest powwow is my opinion.
windanncer likes this.
running_with_buffs is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-13-2014, 05:25 PM   #12
I pull your leg out!
 
Toolbox's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melmac
Posts: 6,000
Credits: 91,150.71
Savings: 0.00
The no photos at grand entry thing is common but not always at the larger contest powwows. I've been to many contest powwows, some large and some small, where the emcee sometimes says "No photos or video at this time". Then after the grand entry and veteran's song etc. the emcee will say that you may now take pictures. There have also been times when no mention of restrictions on photos or video was ever mentioned except when a feather falls. I've also heard that the grand entry was something borrowed from rodeos but I'm not too sure on the validity of that (I'm from the city and we don't have rodeos here).

As for the not taking pictures when a feather is dropped it is usually a thing of respect as most people will believe that a fallen feather represents a fallen warrior - contest powwow or not. This usually only applies to feathers from a bird of prey like an eagle or a hawk. I've seen many fancy dancers drop hackle and other smaller feathers and nothing happens other than maybe the dancer disqualifies himself for that contest and or the arena director or dancer goes and picks up the feather.

All of the protocols depend on the joint agreement of the arena director, the emcee, the powwow committee, judges, and if necessary sometimes elders or veterans. My best suggestion is just to listen to the announcements of the emcee and in cases where no mention of photography restrictions are made at all also take a look around you to see if others are putting their cameras down or if the others are filming. Add to that if someone says to stop filming or put your camera down then you do just that.
windanncer likes this.
__________________
CERN may have discovered the Higgs Boson but...


Help Powwows.com provide better webcasts with wireless cameras by purchasing a decal for your car! We all know you love car decals, don't deny that you don't have them. This is you with a car decal -> http://www.powwows.com/2014/10/23/pow-wow-stickers/

Last edited by Toolbox; 01-13-2014 at 09:20 PM..
Toolbox is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-13-2014, 06:13 PM   #13
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
running_with_buffs has a reputation beyond repute
running_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond reputerunning_with_buffs has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: in the middle of the hood
Posts: 160
Credits: 2,080.18
Savings: 0.00
@tool thanks for the reply, really good to see somebody post that aint got to get all huffy puffy about it or im right your wrong type of deal. but again thanks for answering. and that's all it is camera man just opinions, my real opinion on the matter is go ask if you can take their picture. even before you take a picture of them dancing just ask "do you mind if I get some pictures of you while you dance?" you can say that lots do like their pictures taken, but I know their are lots of people that don't like their picture taken, in particular if you are going to publish it. what if they have family designs on their dance clothes, and just saying if they was from like Oklahoma or south Dakota and after that publication comes out you see your family designs on somebody in Arizona or California or north corolina? so im all for just asking if you can anytime you want to take pictures.
windanncer likes this.
running_with_buffs is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-13-2014, 09:52 PM   #14
I pull your leg out!
 
Toolbox's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melmac
Posts: 6,000
Credits: 91,150.71
Savings: 0.00
To me asking a question is never something to really get huffy puffy about because it's all about educating someone. I only get annoyed when people who are told that they are not allowed to know the answer keep pressing the issue.

At most contest and larger powwows the dancers generally assume that they will have their picture taken while they are dancing. You're exactly right about family designs. With us we may take pictures of our outfits and beadwork but when certain family designs are in the frame we pull the camera back so that it's harder to count beads and mimic the pattern. Like I mentioned several posts above when a dancer is just walking around and you (you being anyone) wants to take a picture just ask and maybe offer up a buck or if you're a great photographer ask for their e-mail address so that you can send them the pictures and some will oblige. The younger ones like getting a dollar or two because they will then run over to the vendor with the snow cones or ice cream and honestly nothing beats a blazing hot powwow weekend like a nice cold snow cone.

Something else that I and others have mentioned elsewhere on these forums - if someone puts their fan, or other item, over their face or over something that you are trying to take a picture of that usually means that they don't want their photo taken. I remember once at Schemitzun many years ago I was sitting next to a traditional dancer and some ladies came in with their big DLSRs and they saw his wonderful bustle and they leaned in to snap a photo and he put his fan over it and turned his back to them and said "NO". The ladies then said "we weren't trying to take your picture we want to take a picture of that {points at bustle} and he again said "NO". He gathered his bustle to go dance and they were upset and where kind of ticked about it. My friend and I turned around to them and explained why they weren't allowed to take a picture of his bustle and they were like "OK" and then walked away to take pictures of the men's traditional dancers out in the arena.
windanncer likes this.
__________________
CERN may have discovered the Higgs Boson but...


Help Powwows.com provide better webcasts with wireless cameras by purchasing a decal for your car! We all know you love car decals, don't deny that you don't have them. This is you with a car decal -> http://www.powwows.com/2014/10/23/pow-wow-stickers/
Toolbox is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-14-2014, 01:59 AM   #15
Me & Eyes are the best !
 
wardancer's Avatar
 
Items DevilPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
wardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond reputewardancer has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: S.E.Kansas (again) LOL
Posts: 15,945
Credits: 68,213.54
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
1.The no photos at grand entry thing is common but not always at the larger contest powwows. I've been to many contest powwows, some large and some small, where the emcee sometimes says "No photos or video at this time". Then after the grand entry and veteran's song etc. the emcee will say that you may now take pictures. There have also been times when no mention of restrictions on photos or video was ever mentioned except when a feather falls. I've also heard that the grand entry was something borrowed from rodeos but I'm not too sure on the validity of that (I'm from the city and we don't have rodeos here).

As for the not taking pictures when a feather is dropped it is usually a thing of respect as most people will believe that a fallen feather represents a fallen warrior - contest powwow or not. 2.This usually only applies to feathers from a bird of prey like an eagle or a hawk. I've seen many fancy dancers drop hackle and other smaller feathers and nothing happens other than maybe the dancer disqualifies himself for that contest and or the arena director or dancer goes and picks up the feather.

All of the protocols depend on the joint agreement of the arena director, the emcee, the powwow committee, judges, and if necessary sometimes elders or veterans. My best suggestion is just to listen to the announcements of the emcee and in cases where no mention of photography restrictions are made at all also take a look around you to see if others are putting their cameras down or if the others are filming. Add to that if someone says to stop filming or put your camera down then you do just that.
1. Well , I've powwowed all over and I never heard of such a ridiculous statement ! I've been to big and small , in Ok.,Tx. ,Mo. Ks.and Tn. and I've never heard that said.More made up crap like not recording whistled songs....Sometimes the wannabe mentality just over ceremonializes (made up this word) everything.

2. Just eagle feathers ! If they're picking anything else up as a ceremonial type thing then they're just blowing smoke to impress the crowd.

I've had my pic taken with permission and without. I had a guy ask and I told him NO and then I caught him taking them with a bigger lens from farther off thinking I wouldn't see him. I made the paper in Austin and the next thing you know some guy in France has my pic up as his avatar on facebook !Then someone else here in the states has it for themselves on FB. Just a couple years ago I was on a billboard for the Missouri State fair and they don't even have a powwow !Somebody also told me someone had a pic of me that they had submitted for a contest at the fair.At least 3 times I've heard of paintings in galleries of me and I did actually find 2 of them.But I guess the point is , this all happened WITHOUT my permission. If the pic taker wants it , they'll get it , whether you like it or not.

rwb , I love hearing the calling songs !
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
wardancer is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-14-2014, 09:32 AM   #16
I pull your leg out!
 
Toolbox's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melmac
Posts: 6,000
Credits: 91,150.71
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
1. Well , I've powwowed all over and I never heard of such a ridiculous statement ! I've been to big and small , in Ok.,Tx. ,Mo. Ks.and Tn. and I've never heard that said.More made up crap like not recording whistled songs....Sometimes the wannabe mentality just over ceremonializes (made up this word) everything.
I've mainly heard this up in the Northeast (not just PA, OH, NJ) and at real powwows not hobbyist crap. I've also heard this about powwows at west. Then again it might be common there to set some sort of precedent to the largely non-native public about respect. The origin of this is something I don't know. In some areas when they cater to the public they are going to put on some dog and pony acts and over "ceremonialize" (nice word BTW) to keep the audience engaged in something that isn't ceremonial at all.


Quote:
2. Just eagle feathers ! If they're picking anything else up as a ceremonial type thing then they're just blowing smoke to impress the crowd.
They probably are blowing smoke but again just as I said above maybe their intention is to set a precedent for the public. (Consider my response above here too)


Quote:
I've had my pic taken with permission and without. I had a guy ask and I told him NO and then I caught him taking them with a bigger lens from farther off thinking I wouldn't see him. I made the paper in Austin and the next thing you know some guy in France has my pic up as his avatar on facebook !Then someone else here in the states has it for themselves on FB. Just a couple years ago I was on a billboard for the Missouri State fair and they don't even have a powwow !Somebody also told me someone had a pic of me that they had submitted for a contest at the fair.At least 3 times I've heard of paintings in galleries of me and I did actually find 2 of them.But I guess the point is , this all happened WITHOUT my permission. If the pic taker wants it , they'll get it , whether you like it or not.

rwb , I love hearing the calling songs !
You're exactly right if they want to take the picture they will take it. My rants and responses in the previous posts were more geared to get the public to exercise some professional etiquette when taking pictures. The thing is that since these are public events that usually take place on public grounds anyone can legally take pictures of anyone or anything. That's creepy finding that someone used your picture as their avatar on Facebook.
windanncer likes this.
__________________
CERN may have discovered the Higgs Boson but...


Help Powwows.com provide better webcasts with wireless cameras by purchasing a decal for your car! We all know you love car decals, don't deny that you don't have them. This is you with a car decal -> http://www.powwows.com/2014/10/23/pow-wow-stickers/
Toolbox is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-21-2014, 06:05 PM   #17
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,097
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 38,634.63
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post

I've had my pic taken with permission and without. I had a guy ask and I told him NO and then I caught him taking them with a bigger lens from farther off thinking I wouldn't see him. I made the paper in Austin and the next thing you know some guy in France has my pic up as his avatar on facebook !Then someone else here in the states has it for themselves on FB. Just a couple years ago I was on a billboard for the Missouri State fair and they don't even have a powwow !Somebody also told me someone had a pic of me that they had submitted for a contest at the fair.At least 3 times I've heard of paintings in galleries of me and I did actually find 2 of them.But I guess the point is , this all happened WITHOUT my permission. If the pic taker wants it , they'll get it , whether you like it or not.

rwb , I love hearing the calling songs !
They take your picture because your so Handsome LOL!!!

But I agree about the show thing too many MC's and AD's do the big production picking up feathers. Although its funny I have seen Waaaaay more feathers dropped at Red Earth and never seen any at Grey Horse or Pawhuska during ceremony. Hmmmmm

I Have seen them stop the whole Grand Entry and make a big deal but during Cherokee Holiday GE last Fall the AD dropped his hat over it and we took care of it after Grand Entry and it was done before anyone could make a fuss just like it suppose to be...



And yes its only Eagle Feathers
windanncer and Toolbox like this.
__________________
ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
Till I Die!
Josiah is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-21-2014, 06:34 PM   #18
I pull your leg out!
 
Toolbox's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantPresentPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Toolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond reputeToolbox has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melmac
Posts: 6,000
Credits: 91,150.71
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
They take your picture because your so Handsome LOL!!!

...
You're starting to sound like JD
windanncer likes this.
__________________
CERN may have discovered the Higgs Boson but...


Help Powwows.com provide better webcasts with wireless cameras by purchasing a decal for your car! We all know you love car decals, don't deny that you don't have them. This is you with a car decal -> http://www.powwows.com/2014/10/23/pow-wow-stickers/
Toolbox is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-21-2014, 07:18 PM   #19
The voices tell me...
 
Joe's Dad's Avatar
 
Items CatCatCatCat
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 15,763
Credits: 127,514.31
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
The no photos at grand entry thing is common but not always at the larger contest powwows. I've been to many contest powwows, some large and some small, where the emcee sometimes says "No photos or video at this time". Then after the grand entry and veteran's song etc. the emcee will say that you may now take pictures. There have also been times when no mention of restrictions on photos or video was ever mentioned except when a feather falls. I've also heard that the grand entry was something borrowed from rodeos but I'm not too sure on the validity of that (I'm from the city and we don't have rodeos here).

As for the not taking pictures when a feather is dropped it is usually a thing of respect as most people will believe that a fallen feather represents a fallen warrior - contest powwow or not. This usually only applies to feathers from a bird of prey like an eagle or a hawk. I've seen many fancy dancers drop hackle and other smaller feathers and nothing happens other than maybe the dancer disqualifies himself for that contest and or the arena director or dancer goes and picks up the feather.

All of the protocols depend on the joint agreement of the arena director, the emcee, the powwow committee, judges, and if necessary sometimes elders or veterans. My best suggestion is just to listen to the announcements of the emcee and in cases where no mention of photography restrictions are made at all also take a look around you to see if others are putting their cameras down or if the others are filming. Add to that if someone says to stop filming or put your camera down then you do just that.
I've been to powwows everywhere but the Northeast (didn't have a desire to travel up there). Never heard all those rules. Over the years I've pictured or video'd all aspects of the powwow. I was videoing, ground level at the edge of the circle at Indio in November. I dont video fallen feathers.
windanncer likes this.
__________________


Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman
Joe's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-21-2014, 07:21 PM   #20
The voices tell me...
 
Joe's Dad's Avatar
 
Items CatCatCatCat
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 15,763
Credits: 127,514.31
Savings: 1.00
Are you saying I'm saying that he's saying he's handsome??? LOL
windanncer likes this.
Joe's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
National Powwow 16 Tipi Camp and Competition July 2014 TWDBear Tipis 0 07-26-2013 09:51 PM
My Red Earth Powwow 2012 experience. Jozi Pow Wow Trip Reports 7 06-24-2012 03:40 PM
Final Atemt on makeing a hot thread Nipkie Chit Chat 107 08-02-2006 04:22 PM
I Wanna Powwow (Twisted Sister parody) mathewhebailey08 Chit Chat 2 01-12-2006 11:56 AM
Socorro PowWow question frybread allstar Pow Wow Talk 5 05-17-2005 01:39 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery