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Old 07-11-2020, 10:42 PM   #21
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BA, you've probably read about these in some of your books about the old days.

Red Cloud School Shop - chokecherry patties

(My apologies to those who've heard my chokecherries warning many times before.)

These are made by crushing the entire fruit, including the pits, and drying the mixture. They are used by reconstituting with water and cooking.

The cooking step should not be omitted. Like more familiar members of the genus Prunus cherries, plums and apricots, the pits contain amygdalin. Amygdalin hydrolyzes to release hydrogen cyanide. Hydrogen cyanide is volatile and is driven off by heating, reducing but not eliminating the toxin. Cyanide inhibits cytochrome oxidase in the mitochondria rendering the cell unable to use oxygen and ultimately killing it. Amygdalin produces a characteristic bitter almond flavor, which can be detected in dishes prepared with whole fruits. (You will find old world recipes using tiny amounts of the pits of other prunus drupes just to produce the bitter almond flavor.)

In my opinion, it is prudent to avoid consuming the pits particularly if you lack the generations of experience that Native grandmothers have in processing and preparing the fruit. I grew up with folks who processed elderberries, which contain sambunigrin a different cyanogenic glycoside, and chokecherries and I don't trust myself to safely prepare some of the dishes they made.

(BTW, elderberries must be cooked. They are toxic raw or dried. They also contain sambucine a toxic alkaloid that causes severe digestive upset. Both compounds are decomposed by heat.)
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Old 07-13-2020, 08:48 AM   #22
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Thank you!! Last night I made Wojapi sauce! I never made the frybread, but the wojapi sauce is very good!I will be trying out some more recipes! @OLChemist , I will be looking into all of the recipes that you listed and report back! So excited to make these dishes!
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Old 07-13-2020, 09:50 AM   #23
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I'm glad you enjoyed it. Wojapi is always a hit. I don't think I've ever made it and had someone not like it.

Forgive me if I missed something. Kabubu is not the same as frybread. Frybread is deep fired. There are tons of recipes for it on this website and online. There are even fry bread mixes: Ha-pah-shu-tse (Red Corn Foods), Wooden Knife, Valencia Flour Mill...

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Old 07-21-2020, 09:16 AM   #24
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Welcome to powwows.com, Deesk06.

Be aware Indians love to tease and we love food. We also like to mix out pleasures and tease each other about the foods our various peoples like to eat. In keeping with that I'm going to start with a little friendly teasing. Coming from a buffalo eating people, we called vegans bad hunters :)

Native America has wonderful food. And the New Worlds foods we cultivated changed the planet: corn, chiles, squashes, beans, pumpkins, pecans, cranberries, blue berries, tomatoes, peanuts, avocados, potatoes, papaya, elderberries, cassava, sweet potatoes, vanilla, quinoa, pineapple, hickory nuts, nopales.... A lot of mainstream American cooking has Native roots, particularly in the south, southwest and northeast.

You need to go to one of the pueblos for a feast day! The food is incredible. Many of these dishes have crossed into the mainstream southwestern diet.

There are all kinds of stews. Most that I've had had meat. There are quelites, which are a potherb made with purslane or spinach and beans:

Bueno Foods: quelites

There are stews and sautés with squashes, corn, onions and beans. There is piki, which is a paper thin bread made with cornmeal and cooked on a hot greased stone (the grease may be an animal product). Many of the women at the pueblos are excellent bakers. They make many different kinds of breads, cookies and pies:

pastelitos

Some other greatest food hits of the pueblos:

Chiquos de horno

Pinon cookies


Then you need to stop in with the Navajo. Sadly, you'll miss my favorites mutton stew and mutton ribs with frybread. Get some tanaashgiizh (my apologies if I spelled that wrong), blue cornmeal mush, and sumac pudding. Have a glass of Navajo tea. Navajo Agricultural Products can hook you up with the ingredients.

Tanaashgiizh -- recipe 1

Tanaashgiizh -- recipe 2

Chiiłchin

There is kneeldown bread:

Kneeldown bread

There are all kinds of breads and cakes.

Check out the Youtube channel Navajo In the City and the websites by The Fancy Navajo and Chef Freddie Bitsoie.

The Fancy Navajo


Then head over to eastern OK. I was going to suggest a wild onion dinner, but eggs are out :(. Get some fried hominy, without the bacon. Try some bean bread, greens, grape dumplings and kunchi.

Kunchi

Greens and grape dumplings

Bean bread


Then head over and visit the Muscogee. Try some sour cornbread and blue dumplings.


Then you can head up north and home. Since you don't do meat, eating in buffalo country is a bit harder. But you have to try some wojapi, berry pudding made with blackberries, blueberries, chokecherries, or service berries:

Wojapi

Have some corn wasna, just don't eat it at night:

Corn wasna

Maybe you can find some strings of dried timpsila, prairie turnips (psoralea esculenta), or some wild plums.



Ok, it's midnight. I've run out of steam. And my cat knocked my glass of water on the running electric fan, which as you can imagine was not good for the fan. (Thank goodness it had an inline fuse.). Maybe tomorrow, we'll head east.

Oh, I forgot to mention that this part of the forum is moderated. Please be patient if your post doesn't appear immediately.
Now, I'm hungry!
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Old 07-22-2020, 02:14 AM   #25
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Me too.
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Old 07-22-2020, 02:32 AM   #26
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Pueblo pumpkin cookies

Preheat oven to 350F and grease several cookie sheets.

Soak 2 c of golden raisins in hot water 15 mins and drain.

Coarsely chop 1 c of pecans.

Cream:

2 c sugar;
2 c shortening.

Add:

1 15 oz can of pumpkin;
2 beaten eggs;
2 tsp vanila extract.

In a separate bowl combine:

4 c flour;
2 tsp baking soda;
1 tsp salt;
1 1/2 tsp nutmeg;
1/2 tsp ground allspice.

Add the dry ingredients 1 c at time, until mixed. Mix in raisins and nuts.

Drop tablespoons of batter on the cookie sheets. Bake 12-15 mins, until golden brown.

Makes 6-7 dozen cookies.
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Old 07-22-2020, 03:00 AM   #27
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Biscochitos

Preheat oven to 350F. Line several cookie sheets with parchment paper.

Mix and set aside:

1/4 c sugar;
1 Tbsp cinnamon.

In a separate bowl sift together:

2 c flour;
1 Tbsp baking powder.

Cream:

2 c shortening or lard;
1 1/2 c sugar.

Add:

2 eggs;
2 tsp anise seed.

Mix in the flour mixture and add:

1/4 c brandy or water.


On a lightly floured counter, roll out the dough to 1/4" thickness. Cut into diamonds. Sprinkle with cinnamon and sugar mixture.

Bake for 10mins, until edges and bottom are lightly browned. Don't over bake.
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Old 07-22-2020, 05:26 AM   #28
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I still have to translate the recipes for Bapa Soup, Chotow's Hunter Stew and so on.

The day has 24 hours and I think I have to take the night into account too.

(Der Tag bhat 24 Stunden und wenn das nicht reicht nehmen wir noch die Nacht hinzu.)
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:51 AM   #29
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If you're trying to convert from cups, tsp and Tbsp to grams, I'll just send you some measuring cups and spoons. It's a fairly hopeless task.

On the Bapa soup you may have difficulty with some of the ingredients.

Timpisila are prairie turnips (Pediomelum esculentum). They are a wild legume, indigenous to North America. They range from Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, through the plains to central Texas. Like many indigenous plants in these agricultural areas, their habitat has been adversely affected by cultivation and the herbicides used to suppress toxic plants in pastures and competing plants in fields.

Pediomelum esculentum is a perennial and takes three to four years to reach full development. It develops a roughly foot high cluster of several hairy stems, with five lobed palmately compound leaves. These are topped with clusters of blue or purple flowers that somewhat resemble snapdragon flowers, with more bulbous bases. When the seeds are mature, the stalks break away from the root and blow across the ground to spread the seeds.

The root is harvested in May - June, before the stems break way making the roots difficult to find. Too late in the season and the root is mushy. The flowers are said to point to other prairie turnip plants. Once dug up, which is hard work due to the long tap root and hard soils of the undisturbed area where prairie turnips still grow, the stem is cut away and the thick brown husk is peeled off. The remains of the tap root are braided together with others to form long ropes. These are dried to preserve the roots.

The roots can be eaten raw or dried. They can also be ground to powder and used as a thickener. The ground root could be mixed with tallow and berries and formed into cakes. The roots are high in starch and contain ca. 7% protein (dry). They are rich in vitamin C, iron, zinc and magnesium. In modern dishes, potatoes are often substituted.

Timpsila also figures in many of the old stories. One of the women, who had married stars and gone to live in the heavens, was digging timpsila when she saw her family through the hole left in the sky by her turnip digger. Overcome by a longing to see her relatives, she tried to climb back down to earth on a rope of timpsila. She was killed falling from the too short rope, but her son survived and had did many wonderful things. Some tribes use the plant and/or roots in ceremony.

The Copes dried corn will also be a challenge. The corn in question is maize. In American recipes corn is maize. In American English about the only place you'll encounter the word corn used for another grain is the Bible.

Copes is a brand name. The John Copes company is an 120 year old operation in heart of Pennsylvania Amish country. They use super-sweet corn varieties. The corn is sliced from the cob and roasted to dry it, caramelizing the sugars. It's similar to chicos, the dried, roasted corn made in the pueblos.

In the old days, the dried corn was obtained in trade with the nations that cultivated the Missouri river bottoms. Likely, that product was more like the chicos than the Copes corn. In the early part of the last century the Copes corn was a fairly wide spread product in the midwest. It came to replace the old dried corn, especially after flood control projects put much of the traditional crop lands of northern plains tribes underwater.

You can use canned or frozen corn. Just put it in later in the cooking. It doesn't have as intense a flavor.
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:10 AM   #30
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The stew below is one of those NM crossover dishes that has its roots deep in pueblo cooking

Chico Stew
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Old 07-22-2020, 11:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
If you're trying to convert from cups, tsp and Tbsp to grams, I'll just send you some measuring cups and spoons. It's a fairly hopeless task.
cup = Tasse 240 mL
tsp teaspoone = Teelöffel or Kaffelöffel 5 mL
tbsp tablespoon = Esslöffel 15 mL

LOL, the kitchen utensils may differ due to the believe of the makers in differnet countries.

Very good is the "Prise Salz" pinch of salt. LOL, though everybody agrees, that it is a tiny amount, that tiny is different to different people. In all it is less than 1/3 teaspoon of salt, may be what you lift with the edge of a cutlery knife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post

On the Bapa soup you may have difficulty with some of the ingredients.


The flowers are said to point to other prairie turnip plants. Once dug up, which is hard work due to the long tap root and hard soils of the undisturbed area where prairie turnips still grow, the stem is cut away and the thick brown husk is peeled off. The remains of the tap root are braided together with others to form long ropes. These are dried to preserve the roots.

Timpsila also figures in many of the old stories. One of the women, who had married stars and gone to live in the heavens, was digging timpsila when she saw her family through the hole left in the sky by her turnip digger. She tried to climb back down to earth on a rope of timpsila. She was killed falling from the too short rope, but her son survived and had did many wonderful things. Some tribes use the plant and/or roots in ceremony.

The Copes dried corn will also be a challenge. The corn in question is maize. In American recipes corn is maize. In American English about the only place you'll encounter the word corn used for another grain is the Bible.

In the old days, the dried corn was obtained in trade with the nations that cultivated the Missouri river bottoms.

In the early part of the last century the Copes corn was a fairly wide spread product in the midwest. It came to replace the old dried corn, especially after flood control projects put much of the traditional crop lands of northern plains tribes underwater.

You can use canned or frozen corn. Just put it in later in the cooking. It doesn't have as intense a flavor.
The availability of the ingredients is the greatest problem and substitutes may not exist or give a wrong impression of the dish.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:00 AM   #32
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When I've served Native dishes with pork I've been asked about use of an introduced species in Native cooking.

Pork has been a long standing part of the Native diet, especially in the south and southwest. Spanish explorers routinely released pigs into the wild with the intent of allowing them to breed and provide food for successive waves of invaders. Hernado De Soto introduced pigs into Florida in 1539. The Coronado expedition brought live pigs as part of their supplies. More pigs escaped from or were released by later waves of European settlers.

Domestic pigs given a few generations in the wild, change from the light colored, sparse haired piggies of Charolette's Web into lean, dark furred, sharp-tusked and aggressive foraging machines. The New World turned out to literally be hog heaven, with an endless buffet. They eat almost everything and are eaten by almost nothing in the New World. Their snouts can literally plow over planted fields in a matter of days, as they feed. They were/are incredibly destructive to Native farms. Naturally, folks started killing them and eventually eating them.

Since take-out food is the second thing exchanged when two culture meet, preservation and cooking methods were traded. European salting and pickling mixed with Native smoking and drying. Bacon got added to the hominy. Red chile joined the lactic acid bacteria in the fermenting of pork and evolved into the carne adovada, beloved by generations of New Mexicans. Pork replaced the venison in tamales and lard replaced the other animal fats in masa. And so on.


Feral hogs are still a huge problem in some areas of the country. We're hip deep in them in Texas. They've been classified as pests, you can kill them in just about any way and any number you like. The state and individual land owners hunt them from helicopters. They are trapped, slaughtered, butchered and sold by the thousands. The good old country boys at work kill dozens every year, making some really tasty hams and Canadian bacon. But still they're tearing up farms, ranches, the Pineywoods and Hill Country. Their voracious eating habits are starving out deer, elk, quail, possums and other wildlife. Young wild pecans and other fruit and nut bearing trees are being crowded out by the species that spring up after hogs strip the ground cover.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:01 AM   #33
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Good heavens! I need social contact. I'm starting to have spontaneous core dumps.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
When I've served Native dishes with pork I've been asked about use of an introduced species in Native cooking.

Pork has been a long standing part of the Native diet, especially in the south and southwest. Spanish explorers routinely released pigs into the wild with the intent of allowing them to breed and provide food for successive waves of invaders.

Feral hogs are still a huge problem in some areas of the country. We're hip deep in them in Texas. They've been classified as pests, you can kill them in just about any way and any number you like.
The wild pigs (ferol hogs) are a massive problem in Germany too. They have already invaded the front yards in part of Berlin and stupid as some of our Environmentalists are have strated to feed them, incresing the problmes. Same with the Pigeons.

I volunteer for social contact with cooking and eating to combat spotanous core dumps.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:10 AM   #35
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Montana Stories: Mariah Gladstone, a Pre-contact Meal
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:29 AM   #36
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I am a lousy cook I think.

Looking at the video, I got hungry. Where is the next possibility to get those meals?

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Old 07-25-2020, 02:13 PM   #37
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BA, I'm not sure if you know what wild rice is. So, I'll do another core dump.

Manoomin (Ojibwe)

Wild rice is four different species of grass, three of which are native to North America. In the US, wild rice is generally some variant of Zizania palustris. This species is native to many lakes and rivers in Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Idaho, Alberta, Ontario, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Zizania aquatica grows along the St Lawrence River and along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts. The third species, Zizania texana, grows only along a tiny part of San Marcos River in Texas. It is an endangered species.

The forth species is indigenous to China. Unlike the North American varieties, the stem is consumed. Import into the US is prohibited because it can harbor a fungus that could endanger the native species in North America.

Wild rice is second only to oats for amount of protein per calorie. It's rich in thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, Vitamin b6, folate. It is also high in some minerals: iron, manganese, magnesium, zinc, and potassium.

Wild rice is traditionally harvested by canoeing into stands of the grass. The plants are bent over the canoe with white cedar poles, called knockers. The seeds are brushed from the stems. Care is taken not to strip every seed, but to allow some to fall back into the mud to sprout for next year's crop. (It is somewhat of a misnomer to call traditionally gathered grain wild gathered since the action of centuries of Native harvesting have encouraged the seeding of the grain, increasing its pre-contact range.)

The harvested rice is air dried for several days. Then it is parched in metal kettles over cedar fires. The process is continued until the grains are slightly cracked. Then the grain is cooled and "jigged" to remove the hulls. The rice is placed in buckets and pounded with poles, to break loose the sharp beards. The rice is fanned in a birch bark basket. Then the final removal of the hull is done by placing the rice in hide or canvas lined pits. Youngsters in clean moccasins tread on the grain to loosen the hulls. Then the rice is fanned for a final time.

Wild Rice has been commercially cultivated in the US since the 1950's. The rice thus produced is mechanically dried and hulled. Minnesota and California are the leading producers of wild rice. It is also cultivated in parts of northern Europe.

Traditionally, processed wild rice is a different beast from the commercially cultivated product. The cooking times are different. The grains are generally lighter, softer and cracked. The finished grain frequently has a slight to pronounced smoky flavor.
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Old 07-25-2020, 02:44 PM   #38
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I have found when using wild rice in dishes like meat balls, you need to parboil the rice. Otherwise the meatball and rice mixture can live up to the nickname porcupine balls.

Bring to boil:

1/4 c wild rice;
1/2 c water.

Cover and simmer until the rice is almost tender, about 30 mins. Set aside to cool.

Preheat oven to 350F.

Mix:

1 lb ground buffalo or beef;
2 Tbsp dehydrated onions;
parboiled rice;
1 egg;
1/2 tsp rubbed, dry sage;
1/8 tsp black pepper;
1 tsp salt.

Mix. Form into 1" dia. balls.

Heat 2 Tbsp oil in a large frying pan. Brown the meat balls in batches; don't crowd. Place the meatballs on a rimmed baking sheet. Cook in the oven until they are no longer pink in the center, about 25-30 minutes.


This can be served with a sweet fruit sauce. I've used a thicker, less sweet version of my wojapi recipe (less water and flour instead of cornstarch). They make a nice appetizer with a dipping sauce made with mustard, sage and capers.

Sauce:

In a small saucepan, bring to a simmer.

1/2 c heavy cream;
2 Tbsp dijion mustard;
1 tsp dried sage;
salt and pepper

Cook until reduced in volume by one half.

Add:

3 Tbsp of pan dripping from the meat or chicken stock;
1 Tbsp of drained capers.

Remove from heat. Serve.
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Old 07-25-2020, 02:51 PM   #39
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north american wild rice is to have in Germany.

https://www.oryza.de/produkte/produktdetails/wildreis/

It will be the cultivated wild rice, not the wild rice harboured from the canoe on the lakes I assume with reason.

Question is, what I can get as cranberries (Preiselbeeren) in glases which is ready for roasted meat (deer, wild boar) can be used.
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:07 PM   #40
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I was under the impression that preiselbeeren are ligonberries -- Vaccinium vitis-idaea -- not cranberries -- Vaccinium macrocarpon. According to the dictionary the English cranberry comes from Low German kraansbere. Am I wrong?
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