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-   -   Why does Native american culture exist in US, but very rare in Mexico? (http://forums.powwows.com/f73/why-does-native-american-culture-exist-us-but-very-rare-mexico-68984/)

CatMan 11-25-2014 01:25 AM

Why does Native american culture exist in US, but very rare in Mexico?
 
I mentioned this topic briefly in the other thread I created, but I'll elaborate on it.

Most mexicans are either native or part native, yet very few Mexicans (some Mexicans in southern mexico near central america-thats about it) still live in tribes and practice traditional culture. Native Americans are a tiny minority in the US and Canada, yet most of them belong to tribes and practice traditional culture. They arent assimilated like Mexicans are- and Mexico is a a country where most people are amerindian. Why is that? I think it's kinda sad how native american culture is practically super rare in Mexico but is very commonin other parts of the continent.

Northern and central Mexicans are related to the same indian tribes who live in the american southwest (like navajo, etc)-yet while southwest indians still hold onto their native culture and identity-Mexicans dont. I dont know any Mexicans who identify themselves as part of a tribe or anything like that. Apache - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Apachean people formerly ranged over eastern Arizona, northern Mexico (Sonora and Chihuahua)
Yet in those states of Mexico and people with ancestry from N Mexico, they dont identify themselves as a part of native american tribes. They culturally have no connection to that now.

According to this map, the Yuman and Pimnan native american tribes of the US also were widespread all over Northwestern Mexico. Mexicans techncially are native americans in the sense that they belong to the same tribes of natives that lived in the US.

http://www.shoshonebannocktribes.com...pliguistic.jpg

So why do you think Native American culture from tribes is alive and thriving in Arizona and the western US states, but is practically functionally extinct in Northern Mexico?

xTekno 11-25-2014 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatMan (Post 1612562)

Northern and central Mexicans are related to the same indian tribes who live in the american southwest (like navajo, etc)-yet while southwest indians still hold onto their native culture and identity-Mexicans dont. I dont know any Mexicans who identify themselves as part of a tribe or anything like that. Apache - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this is bS to the core! I am Navajo, but know of no relations to anyone south of the border.

wanjica_the_one 11-25-2014 01:24 PM

Mexicans are racist against the Indios chaparros. To be called in Indio pisado is an insult.

CatMan 11-25-2014 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one (Post 1612598)
Mexicans are racist against the Indios chaparros. To be called in Indio pisado is an insult.

How does that explain why most Mexican people dont live in tribes anymore?

xTekno 11-25-2014 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatMan (Post 1612603)
How does that explain why most Mexican people dont live in tribes anymore?

they DO live in tribes - Red or Blue!

AmigoKumeyaay 11-25-2014 07:23 PM

http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2014/...Map_Mexico.pdf

AmigoKumeyaay 11-25-2014 07:39 PM

500 years ago, Mexico was all Native. Then the Spanish invaded in 1521.

After centuries of Spanish colonization, the new Mestizo ethnicity dominated.

The racial divisions of "La Casta" (caste system) ranked Indios to bottom of colonial society.

Mestizos that recognized their own Indian blood would be lowering themselves. to this day many "laugh" when you mention if they have Indian blood, or ancestors. They consider Indians to be "backwards" and uneducated.

There are many Mexican tribes that still live as their ancestors did: Tarahumara, Wixarika (Huichol) Mixteco, etc, etc etc

CatMan 11-25-2014 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay (Post 1612614)
500 years ago, Mexico was all Native. Then the Spanish invaded in 1521.

After centuries of Spanish colonization, the new Mestizo ethnicity dominated.

The racial divisions of "La Casta" (caste system) ranked Indios to bottom of colonial society.

Mestizos that recognized their own Indian blood would be lowering themselves. to this day many "laugh" when you mention if they have Indian blood, or ancestors. They consider Indians to be "backwards" and uneducated.

There are many Mexican tribes that still live as their ancestors did: Tarahumara, Wixarika (Huichol) Mixteco, etc, etc etc

If they consider Indians to be "backwards", why do they have no problem acknowledging that they are part native? I dont get that.

AmigoKumeyaay 11-26-2014 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatMan (Post 1612616)
If they consider Indians to be "backwards", why do they have no problem acknowledging that they are part native? I dont get that.

Most Mexicans consider themselves "Mestizo" kind of a "hybrid" mix of spanish & indian blood.

They might have the indian blood, but not the Indian traditions, language, culture.

Mestizo was higher social ranking than Indio, under colonial society.

This persists as an attitude today.

AmigoKumeyaay 11-26-2014 12:12 AM

Tribal Map of Mexico
 
In Mexico, they use the term "pueblo" or "town" for what in USA is a "reservation"-

Atlas de los Pueblos Indígenas de México

Atlas de los Pueblos Indígenas de México

CatMan 11-26-2014 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay (Post 1612619)
Most Mexicans consider themselves "Mestizo" kind of a "hybrid" mix of spanish & indian blood.

They might have the indian blood, but not the Indian traditions, language, culture.

Mestizo was higher social ranking than Indio, under colonial society.

This persists as an attitude today.

Why do you think most US and Canada natives (a minority in their countries) still hold onto traditional culture (like tribes), but most Mexicans dont do it, even though the majority of them have native blood in them?

gilisi 11-26-2014 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTekno (Post 1612612)
they DO live in tribes - Red or Blue!

:eyebrow2:

gilisi 11-26-2014 01:12 AM

Thanks @AmigoKumeyaay for the information

gilisi 11-26-2014 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatMan (Post 1612616)
If they consider Indians to be "backwards", why do they have no problem acknowledging that they are part native? I dont get that.

Over 5% of the population in Mexico retains tribal affiliation, in that they speak their indigent languages as of the census taken in 2005.
Tribal identity is alive and well among Mexican indians, many of whom proudly admit their 'Indio' status, albeit unpopular among the predominant colonial attitudes.

If anyone is truly interested in references and actual information, by all means PM me. If, however, you have more fun making hasty generalizations about entire races of people because it feels good, then let the ethnocentric babble continue.

CatMan 11-26-2014 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1612625)
Over 5% of the population in Mexico retains tribal affiliation, in that they speak their indigent languages as of the census taken in 2005.
Tribal identity is alive and well among Mexican indians, many of whom proudly admit their 'Indio' status, albeit unpopular among the predominant colonial attitudes.

If anyone is truly interested in references and actual information, by all means PM me. If, however, you have more fun making hasty generalizations about entire races of people because it feels good, then let the ethnocentric babble continue.

So why does such a small population of Mexico belong to a native tribe, when most of their population is either native or part native to begin with? In the US, native americans (or people with some ancestry) are a minority-yet a significant portion of them belong to tribes. Why is that?

wanjica_the_one 11-26-2014 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatMan (Post 1612652)
So why does such a small population of Mexico belong to a native tribe, when most of their population is either native or part native to begin with? In the US, native americans (or people with some ancestry) are a minority-yet a significant portion of them belong to tribes. Why is that?

Because the northern plains and southern plains tribes fought tooth and nail to survive, we killed and we were murdered. The Mexican tribes didn't seem to have the instinct to keep their ways. Why is that?

Joe's Dad 11-26-2014 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatMan (Post 1612652)
So why does such a small population of Mexico belong to a native tribe, when most of their population is either native or part native to begin with? In the US, native americans (or people with some ancestry) are a minority-yet a significant portion of them belong to tribes. Why is that?

Have you thought about contacting the Mexican government? You're asking questions that can only be answered by the Mexican government. If you would like to know about powwows, or powwow etiquette, you're art the right place. If you want to know why Mexican Indians are not called 'Native Americans', ask the Mexican government.

TeenaBear 11-26-2014 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1612625)
Over 5% of the population in Mexico retains tribal affiliation, in that they speak their indigent languages as of the census taken in 2005.
Tribal identity is alive and well among Mexican indians, many of whom proudly admit their 'Indio' status, albeit unpopular among the predominant colonial attitudes.

If anyone is truly interested in references and actual information, by all means PM me. If, however, you have more fun making hasty generalizations about entire races of people because it feels good, then let the ethnocentric babble continue.

I think the questions presented in this thread are great and eye opening! If you have any further information, I encourage you to share it with the group. It is rather interesting that the Native culture south of the border is very different than in the states. I mean, the Pueblo Indians are a border nation. I wonder how many went south of the Rio Grande and claimed to be Mexican...?

molton 11-27-2014 04:30 AM

If you read the works of Carlos Castaneda, an American who went to interview a Yaqui Indian "man of knowledge" Don Jaun De Matis in the 1970's, this topic is brought up. I can't find a quote exactly, probably partly because 1/2 the books I had in the series of books I lent out to people that never returned them, but I believe he says Mexican's often viewed the Yaqui culture as silly and they generally frowned upon people that took it seriously.

wanjica_the_one 11-27-2014 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molton (Post 1612671)
If you read the works of Carlos Castaneda, an American who went to interview a Yaqui Indian "man of knowledge" Don Jaun De Matis in the 1970's, this topic is brought up. I can't find a quote exactly, probably partly because 1/2 the books I had in the series of books I lent out to people that never returned them, but I believe he says Mexican's often viewed the Yaqui culture as silly and they generally frowned upon people that took it seriously.

Carlos Castaneda is a fraud. His work was all fiction and no substance.


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