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Old 06-28-2006, 10:09 PM   #1
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Judging Women's Smoke Dance

just wondering if you were judging would you give preference to ladies in traditional smoke dancing clothes over ladies in fancy shawl clothes minus the shawl?...

I would have to say I would...I've never judged smoke dance though (tee hee)

have you ever seen contest rules that don't allow shawlers (sans shawls) to compete? "tradish clothes only" rule??? Is there such a thing? Should there be such a thing???
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Old 06-29-2006, 04:34 AM   #2
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I definitely would give preference to someone in traditional clothes. Or else would it be allowed for a fancey dancer to dance southern cloth?
Also, I have seen fancy dancers who smoke dance and the foot work is just not there. These dancers are 9 times out of 10, out of beat...and yet they seem to win. Probably cause the judges are all non-iroquois and are only looking at the steps and not listening to the beat.

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Old 06-29-2006, 09:51 AM   #3
smoke & ladies tradish
 
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i aggree... to "compete" you should be apropriatly dressed which then clues me that perhaps you are not even of any of the Iroquois Nations.
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Old 06-29-2006, 10:54 AM   #4
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I've got a question that goes a little deeper than that. Since traditional Iroquoian clothes are preferred for these contests, should only Iroquoian people or those expressly given the right to wear those clothes be allowed to compete? Because right now it seems open to pretty much anyone.

I remember - in the not too distant past - when Smoke Dance came on the scene and everyone (east and west) went crazy over it because it was new and exciting. Then we were simply inundated with it...it became a little much to be honest and I think a lot of people not from the east grew tired of it as it had lost its luster so to speak. But a lot of non-Iroquoian people do enter these contests still. Is this frowned upon? And if so, why?

It seems to me that you guys sort of threw it out there and in your zest to see it become a full-fledged pow wow category gave it away to all nations basically. At least that's my views.
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Old 06-29-2006, 03:09 PM   #5
smoke & ladies tradish
 
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some very valid points singerdad... i wouldnt like to see it become pan-indian... i think the craze came from a certain person who used to do shows all over the coast then country and then it caught interest,
i'll be totally honest and tell you that i personally would be upset if i were beat out by a non-iroquois person that danced flashy opposed to appropriate... i'm sure those who's people originated jingle, chicken, round bustle ect, feel the same way... however, at the moment, i'm not opposed to it being competition in the ny area because you will get judges that know what to look for and dancers that know what and how to dance.
but we must remember that it's a SOCIAL dance and perhaps if it becomes to "watered down" that poeple should think about it and return it to social and not competition...
just my two beads... lol...
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Old 07-01-2006, 07:02 AM   #6
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Just adding another question to it...if you're non Iroquois, but you wanted to dance smoke dance, socially, just for fun, would you think its ok? And, what would you view as ok for that person to wear during it. Like, would you think its ok to wear the smoke dance regalia if you're non-Iroquois? Also, do you think its ok if someone in a jingle dress goes out to smoke dance?
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:00 PM   #7
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Its true that one should be dressed in the outfit that the category requires. I mean think about it- like everyone has posted already- you wouldn't go out to dance Jingle in a fancy shawl ensemb...
I don't think that it's wrong for Non-Iroquois folks to dress in Iroquois Manner and dance in the Smoke Dance. BUT, I would hope that they actually knew how to dance because I see a lot of IROQUOIS AND NON-IROQUOIS getting away with bad footwork...and the judges don't take note of it beacuse they don't care, know the person, don't know to take note of it, or who knows what. Thats real cheap when those folks are selected as winners over others who danced correctly. This really bothers me because than everyone thinks that they should watch the wrong people to see how smoke dance it done properly. There's things like this in all categories, though. That's when the split between Contemporary and Old Style emerges...
Also, I should put that Smoke Dance is a social dance, which means that anyone can join in. If it is competition though, than it should be looked at like any other category, where you have to learn how to perform appropriately-
I have also heard that the "slow war dance" should not be included...there's a lot of reasoning behind that, but mostly because one would want to keep the sacred ceremonial things away from public competition...Just wanted to add that on...
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:36 PM   #8
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The first time I ever saw smoke dancing was at the Niagara Falls Turtle Powwow back in the 80's. I was really impressed. There was a large group of men singers seated in a circle. They took turns passing a water drum, two rattles and starting the songs.

As soon as they started singing young and old alike came from the audience to dance and the arena was full of people with and without Iroquois clothing. But everyone knew the songs.

At one point they invited visitors to the arena for a couples dance... Iroquois style. There sure are some purdy Iroquois girls!!! *L and I was asked by one to participate from the 6 Nations Reserve.

It wasn't until the late nineties did I see smoke dancing again. Yes, the guy who did shows and announcing was the guy that introduced it to popular mainstream powwowing.

I have had the pleasure to join in when they invited visitors at the Mohegan Sun Powwow, Schmitzun and the Gathering of Nations. The above announcer and Dennis Bowen both commented on the microphone that I did a pretty good job!


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Old 07-03-2006, 09:35 PM   #9
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I would tend to give preference but then there are non -iroquois that compete and that's fine and I would rather see them dressed in their own garb than ours. It's not a ceremonial dance, it's not even exactly a traditional dance because it's so new... and I've seen my own people competing in their fancy shawl clothes.
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Old 07-08-2006, 01:18 AM   #10
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Talking my 2 centz

sge:noh swagwegoh, here's what i think !...LOL... smoke dance ain't a " iroquois social dance" but iroquois dance it and socialize with one another and whoever else is dancing it!....THE SMOKE DANCE i see is Contemporary style! if anyone thinks it should be old style ~! then maybe we should all put our rised beadwork and new stuff away!...and get out an all buck skin get'up!and no headress' just the old mohawk cut!..LMFAO!. !...NOT picking on anyone now!..i mean!. guys wearing some shiney shirts like their ready to dance disco!....LOL....when i was told to get up there and dance i just went !...no questions asked !...thats where i learnd to dance! i was never told thats not the right way or thats wrong how your dancing !...just go out there and dance !.....if it looks good then so be it!...if your going nutts and the judges look at you and put you on their score sheet!...so be it!....who cares !...just go out there and dance!...have fun!..alot of people forget to have fun when they are competing in smoke dance!......

as for non iroquois dancing this dance ! GO 4 IT!... i wouldn't be mad if you beat me!..LOL...i'd just stand there and look at you like what the heck!..LOL..j/k.... i've seen a few different people/ non-iroquois dance smoke dance!....and some are really good!...that Yazzie guy is a good smoke dancer!.. that chick that won the "all-around special" at toronto powwow this past year!.. was a damn good smoke dancer!....

as for taking away from sacredness! of our ceremonies!...i think the new style of this slow war dance is way different then what is done for our ceremony!..u know what one i'm speaking of!...whats more sacred then the eagle that sits atop our tree of peace?.???? and here we are wearing the feathers at shows/powwows and in public events!...should these feathers only be for longhouse use ???? ( 4 iroquois) why would we do such a thing??...just something to think about!

and i dis-like when any of the smoke dance singers sing the songs from the ceremony set of songs!.....and i admit that i have snag a few !...i'm not perfect!...that when i slip up!....LOL...


now don't all jump on me at once!!! LMFAO
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:26 PM   #11
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Talking right on the money

Well said Sir Cam! i agree wit u 100%. preach on! lol
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:23 AM   #12
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Well said mr. hill! BRAVO!!! i guess! who the heck wears shiny shirts??? what's that all about? ain't nothing traditional/old style bout that!!?? LMFAO!!! sike! well..hope to see you bust it out and show all dese newcomers to smoke dance what it's all about dis weekend!
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:13 PM   #13
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by seneca*one
Well said mr. hill! BRAVO!!! i guess! who the heck wears shiny shirts??? what's that all about? ain't nothing traditional/old style bout that!!?? LMFAO!!! sike! well..hope to see you bust it out and show all dese newcomers to smoke dance what it's all about dis weekend!
lol....yeah boi! Whip out ur Dance Feva shirt!!!!! lol. Who is singing anywayz? who knows???? spill!!
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:59 AM   #14
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Lightbulb preference over trad. regalia or can anyone try smoke dancing

As you can see, I am Tuscarora. Longhouse all the way baby. I am a Smoke Dancer and I perform all over the country. I belong to our Nation Dance and Song Troupe along with my son. I like to see people in Trad. Regalia when there's a smoke dance contest, however all is welcome in my eyes. When we show the public or the schools our dance do we not invite them to try. Yes, sometimes people not in trad. regalia do win. And yes, some of them don't have the footwork. Oh, Well! It's all about having fun. I am a Southern Tuscarora from N.C. So my trad. dress is totally different from my sisters of the North. I have a Northern outfit, however I love my stomp dress. This is our trad. dress. I attend longhouse ceromonies in the same dress. It's not about the dress so much as it is about sharing my beautiful smoke dance. I have been in Cherokee and lost to a fancy dancer. It's all in what the judges are looking for. I know there was one Iroquois judge. So dont sweat it for the one's that think smoke dancer should only be for Iroquois people. Let's just all have fun and socialize and make new friends from it. Nyweh
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