Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Pow Wow Talk > Smoke Dance What is Old Style to you? What is Old Style to you?

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-31-2007, 02:26 AM   #1
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gadaihongwas is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyei Niyohweja:ge:
Posts: 12
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
What is Old Style to you?

I have found that people have very different perceptions as to what Smoke dance should look like. Particularly, when we talk about 'Old Style'.

Two examples of who I would consider 'Old Style' would be the late Kyle Dowdy Sr. for the men and Esther Sundown for the women.

Who would you consider to be classic examples of 'Old style' and why?

Last edited by gadaihongwas; 07-31-2007 at 02:29 AM.. Reason: grammar
gadaihongwas is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 07-31-2007, 11:08 AM   #2
Notoriou'sly'
 
La + * Mom's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
La + * Mom is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tax Exempt Country!
Posts: 323
Credits: 180.00
Savings: 0.00
Hmmm, good one! - we were just talking about an 'old style' smoke dance category...NO super beadwork, NO flashy anything and men that dance with their hands behind their back (as Kyle used to). There are a lot of good young dancers I have seen coming out this year that do not get recognized because of their 'plain-ness'.
__________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
La + * Mom is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-09-2007, 12:29 AM   #3
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gadaihongwas is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyei Niyohweja:ge:
Posts: 12
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by La + * Mom View Post
Hmmm, good one! - we were just talking about an 'old style' smoke dance category...NO super beadwork, NO flashy anything and men that dance with their hands behind their back (as Kyle used to). There are a lot of good young dancers I have seen coming out this year that do not get recognized because of their 'plain-ness'.
So true.

There are a lot of powwows out there that host separate categories for old style and contemporary dancing in jingle, men's tradish and grass. It's about time powwows in our own territory did the same for smoke.
gadaihongwas is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-09-2007, 12:53 AM   #4
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
indn_grl is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Turtle Island
Posts: 29
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I agree with Kyle Dowdy Sr.. Another that comes to mind was Lloyd Elm Sr.'s grandson. I don't remember what his name was but I had seen him dancing when he about 5 years old and man that boy could dance!!! He put grown men to shame. That was about 12 or 13 years ago.

When I think of 'old style', it wasn't about a lot of 'flashy' footwork. It was about being graceful, on beat and staying close to the ground. Your showmanship was what could make or break you. I'm not talking flashy. Puffed out chests, and classic arm movements. In general making it look like fun not work.

How can there be an old style women's smoke when smoke dance is a man's dance. Women only started participating in the late 60's/early 70's for dance demonstration purposes. It was to show that women could dance too.

Last edited by indn_grl; 08-09-2007 at 01:01 AM.. Reason: typo
indn_grl is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-12-2007, 07:54 PM   #5
Oneida Momma
 
oneidagirl22's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
oneidagirl22 has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Oneida, WI
Posts: 139
Credits: 723.00
Savings: 0.00
Talking ol style all da way

growing up round kyle sr. and bill crouse, i lyk ol style better. meaning no fancy beadwork & accessories and no flashy foot work. i see a lot of men & women who have outrageous outfits and crazy dancing who get 1st place for it. wen ive seen the same ppl loose items of their outfits during competition. not mentioning ne names of course out of respect. there have been times when ive danced my hardest and because i hav a plan outfit & try 2 keep the beat w/out fancy footwork i either dont place or place really low. i think if ppl wanna call themselves iroquois smokedancers, then they need to think of the old ways that are still there.
oneidagirl22 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-13-2007, 10:17 AM   #6
Senior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
trob226 is a splendid one to beholdtrob226 is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Where my hat is
Posts: 698
Credits: 82.00
Savings: 0.00
I'm not familiar with old style, but having some Mohawk ancestry I'm really interested. Where would be good places for a spectator who is not of the culture to see old style smoke dancing?
trob226 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-15-2007, 12:16 PM   #7
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
6nayway is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: between the western an eastern doors
Posts: 2
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
what about.................

sge noh, i've been singin an dancin for a long time now an have seen a lot of different dancers, two "old style" dancers that are still dancin in contests that i like are kevin johnny-john for the men, an evelyn george for the women. both have been dancin longer then i can remember but still kick it up old skool, i was down at nmai this past year for the pow wow an watched the smoke dance special. the winner of the mens looks like he's doing the chicken dance, not the prairie chicken dance, but the honky chicken dance! lol! oh yeah, the trick song on friday got most dancers but kevin got it both times an didn't place, i was hopin to see evelyn there but i guess she couldn't make it. anywho........kevin an evelyn are two of my favorite dancers to watch. anybody remember the "spot light" dance off between kevin an glen miller at oneida a few years back? that was some serious smoke dancin
6nayway is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-16-2007, 12:23 AM   #8
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gadaihongwas is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyei Niyohweja:ge:
Posts: 12
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by trob226 View Post
I'm not familiar with old style, but having some Mohawk ancestry I'm really interested. Where would be good places for a spectator who is not of the culture to see old style smoke dancing?
The two powwows hosted by the Seneca Nation Powwow, Seneca nation Fall Festival, Grand River powwow and Awkwesasne has a couple of powwows. You could also check out the NY state fair on 'indian day'. These are just a few events that host smoke dance contests in Haudenosaunee territory.

Of course you would have to weed out the contemporary style dancers from the more old style but they are there.
gadaihongwas is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-16-2007, 02:06 PM   #9
Senior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
trob226 is a splendid one to beholdtrob226 is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Where my hat is
Posts: 698
Credits: 82.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadaihongwas View Post
The two powwows hosted by the Seneca Nation Powwow, Seneca nation Fall Festival, Grand River powwow and Awkwesasne has a couple of powwows. You could also check out the NY state fair on 'indian day'. These are just a few events that host smoke dance contests in Haudenosaunee territory.

Of course you would have to weed out the contemporary style dancers from the more old style but they are there.
Thank you!
trob226 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-28-2007, 01:48 AM   #10
Pow Wow Visitor
 
usdi's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
usdi is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: bc
Posts: 7
Credits: 363.00
Savings: 0.00
yeah, i have a hard time w/women dancing smoke dance. i grew up at onondaga and my dad pulled me from dancing at the fair when i was little because they had me do smoke dance...and this was in the 80's. i know times change and women didn't use to dance in the powwow circle, but i think that you should try to stay true to the original dance if you're gonna do it. with good footwork and classic arm movements. like, be respectful and think of the way our skirts are designed. they're close to our bodies because we're not meant to be jumping around and kicking our legs up in the air. i think it would be more skillful to have fast feet close to the ground than to just be spinning around and waving your arms. and also as someone else said on another thread, having fun with it. not being so cocky that you're slamming your feet on the ground when the song ends.
usdi is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-21-2008, 07:29 AM   #11
fancy shawl
 
my-little-native's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
my-little-native is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 22
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by usdi View Post
yeah, i have a hard time w/women dancing smoke dance. i grew up at onondaga and my dad pulled me from dancing at the fair when i was little because they had me do smoke dance...and this was in the 80's. i know times change and women didn't use to dance in the powwow circle, but i think that you should try to stay true to the original dance if you're gonna do it. with good footwork and classic arm movements. like, be respectful and think of the way our skirts are designed. they're close to our bodies because we're not meant to be jumping around and kicking our legs up in the air. i think it would be more skillful to have fast feet close to the ground than to just be spinning around and waving your arms. and also as someone else said on another thread, having fun with it. not being so cocky that you're slamming your feet on the ground when the song ends.
I agree with usdi about keeping in mind the way the skirts are made when your out there dancing
my-little-native is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 03-26-2008, 05:18 PM   #12
catfish: food of the gods
 
StereoTypicalHarley's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
StereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 255
Credits: 875.03
Savings: 1.00
I believe that alot of "traditional" dances are becoming less and less traditional. Everything is going toward the eurocentric "bigger is better" ideal. Bigger bustles, flashier colors, bigger roaches. Its not about the dance anymore, its about the contest.

Just my opinion though.
__________________
Come together, right now....Over me.
StereoTypicalHarley is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2008, 11:16 AM   #13
Senior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
trob226 is a splendid one to beholdtrob226 is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Where my hat is
Posts: 698
Credits: 82.00
Savings: 0.00
I see there's a smoke dance competition at Cornell on April 12. I think I'll go - anybody else? Anybody been in the past?
trob226 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-03-2008, 04:43 PM   #14
BOULDERDASH!
 
Coyot_In_The_House's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Coyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond repute
Coyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Please Don't Interrupt Me While I'm Ignoring You!
Posts: 4,134
Credits: 396.55
Savings: 1.00
Lightbulb Several families come to mind......

Although with out a doubt the late Richard Johnny John was Old Style....Kevin and his relatives have maintained it....The Dowdy family, Buck family, the Sundowns, the George family.....There are more....Gotta give a shout out to Onondaga too....The Lazures, Frank Mcnaughton, and the one n only Andy Fish!
__________________
"She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."
Coyot_In_The_House is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-20-2008, 06:48 AM   #15
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gadaihongwas is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyei Niyohweja:ge:
Posts: 12
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeproud View Post
I believe that alot of "traditional" dances are becoming less and less traditional. Everything is going toward the eurocentric "bigger is better" ideal. Bigger bustles, flashier colors, bigger roaches. Its not about the dance anymore, its about the contest.

Just my opinion though.
Unfortunately, that does seems to be the nature of contests. Especially, when the prize money starts skyrocketing into the thousands of dollars.

If any of you have judged contests with twenty or thirty dancers, I'm sure you realize how difficult it is to fairly pick out the top three when so many dance similarly.

So people start using their outfits and throwing in other moves to try and make themselves stand out in the judges minds. It is so easy for people to get caught up in that mind set of continually having to one up one another.

Just my own observations.

Last edited by gadaihongwas; 04-20-2008 at 06:58 AM..
gadaihongwas is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-20-2008, 01:00 PM   #16
catfish: food of the gods
 
StereoTypicalHarley's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
StereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 255
Credits: 875.03
Savings: 1.00
As someone who has judged, what do you think the reaction would be to someone who just came out in plane traditional clothing, without all the flashiness.
__________________
Come together, right now....Over me.
StereoTypicalHarley is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-22-2008, 11:16 AM   #17
BOULDERDASH!
 
Coyot_In_The_House's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Coyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond repute
Coyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond reputeCoyot_In_The_House has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Please Don't Interrupt Me While I'm Ignoring You!
Posts: 4,134
Credits: 396.55
Savings: 1.00
Knowledge of the dance....

That should come across from a dancer as well as the judge....I've seen people with elaborate outfits dance fair at best.....Sure dancers will catch your eye, but the dance is what will determine who you select. I suppose if it comes down to dancers who are "on point" dancing very well some folks may consider the outfit...This is tough with smoke dance cause just like with anything else people have their opinions....Personally I prefer dancers who maintain the ole school styles....As far as dancing and their outfit....
Coyot_In_The_House is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-24-2008, 08:27 PM   #18
Senior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
trob226 is a splendid one to beholdtrob226 is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Where my hat is
Posts: 698
Credits: 82.00
Savings: 0.00
I went to the smoke dance at Cornell. An older woman, wearing callico rather than satin and dancing old style, blew me away. I didn't get her name, but when she danced it was a joy to watch, and she had moves.
trob226 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-29-2008, 10:13 AM   #19
MsRobinLynn
 
DancingBlueButterfly's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
DancingBlueButterfly is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 8
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Question

This may sound a little stupid, but what is smoke dancing?
DancingBlueButterfly is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 04-29-2008, 07:51 PM   #20
catfish: food of the gods
 
StereoTypicalHarley's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
StereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond reputeStereoTypicalHarley has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 255
Credits: 875.03
Savings: 1.00
Watch this, its a video from Schemitzun, 2006.

YouTube - Men's Smoke Dance - Schemitzun 2006
__________________
Come together, right now....Over me.
StereoTypicalHarley is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Style fancy shawl tradish_wiyan Fancy Shawl Dancing 27 03-24-2013 01:45 PM
Question about Cloth Dress in Style of Bucksin Riverwoman Buckskin Dancing 17 09-30-2005 04:04 PM
Southern style lsijohn Cloth Dancing 1 07-10-2002 04:23 PM
Old Style v. New Style Choctawgirl Jingle Dancing 11 06-08-2002 08:53 AM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery