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Old 01-01-2008, 01:24 AM   #1
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Dreamcatchers demonic?!

Ok, so I'm a Christian and I'm a member of this Christian teen forum called Anointed Youth. There was one member on there wondering about dreamcatchers, and she posted a link to a website that says dreamcatchers are evil and possessed with demons and all this other stupid stuff. It was crazy, especially since the website seems really kind of racist towards natives. I was hoping you guys would check it out, and tell me if I was right to send the author of the site some e-mails letting him/her know exactly how stupid I think they are...

Here's the thread in the forum where we're talking about it. My username there is agasga. You can find the link to the website in the first post, but it's DREAM CATCHER

Help research Dream catchers - Anointed Youth

So what do you think? Is the group that runs the demonbusters website out of their minds, or what? Thanks for your input.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:50 AM   #2
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Talking Holy or evil...?

Ahinawake...
Hello!
Letīs put it this way: You can have a pen to write Love letters... itīs a holy pen, īcause Love is sacred...--Love builds.
You can have a pen to write Hate letters... itīs an evil pen, īcause Hate is possessed by "demons"...--Hate destroys.
We build Heaven here or build Hell here... Itīs up to us! ***Happy New Year 2008***
Truly Yours, ---Cuetzpallincihuatl.
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:34 AM   #3
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Oh jesus christ almighty
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuetzpallincihuatl View Post
Ahinawake...
Hello!
Letīs put it this way: You can have a pen to write Love letters... itīs a holy pen, īcause Love is sacred...--Love builds.
You can have a pen to write Hate letters... itīs an evil pen, īcause Hate is possessed by "demons"...--Hate destroys.
We build Heaven here or build Hell here... Itīs up to us! ***Happy New Year 2008***
Truly Yours, ---Cuetzpallincihuatl.
I totally agree with what was said here. And I want to add this to it. What is evil and unchristian is hatred and racism and anything used to promote hatred and rascism is evil. but if something is used for love and kindness. And to help others it is good. That is what I believe.

Thank you and Bless all those that promote love and kindness.

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Old 01-01-2008, 01:25 PM   #5
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I don't usually reply to stuff like this, but.......... my wife & I made one with good thoughts and prayers for my grand-daughter. No........ I do not believe in purchasing a dreamcatcher. I don't know what is going through peoples minds when they are making one, except that they are making them to sell.

Now, she sleeps all night with no nightmares. That's all I know. Am I wrong to want to help her? Does the Creator ignore our prayers for her? I don't think so.
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Old 01-01-2008, 04:16 PM   #6
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How about it's what I call church ignorance. If it has nothing to do with the old puritan ways, it's evil because it is'nt something made for or by Jesus. I believe most Christian scholars should study other beliefs and religions before donning anything they don't know about or understand as evil or demonic. But it seems the doctrine is to remain ignorant and that's because alot of the old puritan and early preachers found it hard to keep a congregation in their thrall if they got smart and investigated things for themselves to see how harmless or benign something might be... and anything that threatened their word or scared them could be deemed "demonic" or "witchcraft" so that they were justified in destroying it. And that is NOT what the bible or "God's Word" even teaches. He gave us minds to think for ourselves and the brains to find ways to heal ourselves as well as his faith that he'd heal us... and the greatest gift of all, the free will to make up our minds for ourselves.

SO.. are dreamcatchers demonic? Only if it was made to catch demonic dreams... duh! LOL!!

No... of course not. Tell them the real meaning of them which is to catch dreams for babies and the good dreams are stored in the feathers to be dreamed the next night and the bad dreams get caught in the beads in the webbing to be destroyed with the morning sunlight.
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Old 01-01-2008, 04:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahinawake View Post
Ok, so I'm a Christian and I'm a member of this Christian teen forum called Anointed Youth. There was one member on there wondering about dreamcatchers, and she posted a link to a website that says dreamcatchers are evil and possessed with demons and all this other stupid stuff. It was crazy, especially since the website seems really kind of racist towards natives. I was hoping you guys would check it out, and tell me if I was right to send the author of the site some e-mails letting him/her know exactly how stupid I think they are...

Here's the thread in the forum where we're talking about it. My username there is agasga. You can find the link to the website in the first post, but it's DREAM CATCHER

Help research Dream catchers - Anointed Youth

So what do you think? Is the group that runs the demonbusters website out of their minds, or what? Thanks for your input.
Ahina - I would avoid web sites like this, and individuals who advocate many of the ideas presented here, LIKE THE PLAGUE! Not only is what they are showing here racist, anti-Indian, etc., (see the section on "Indian Burial Grounds"), but much of the so-called "doctrine" they present is Scripturally incorrect. For example, Easter is not a pagan holiday, and fallen angels are demons, just to mention a couple.

Nonetheless, I think they are folks out there who are on spiritual witch-hunt, looking for demons in every shadow and under rock and tree. The spirit world doesn't work like that. I can safely say that the troubles that I've encountered in my daily life are more often directly related to my own poor decision-making or the doings of other people, WAY MORE than they are to demonic activity. I think people that use these kind of scare tactics are giving the Devil way more credit than he deserves. Demons have NO POWER over a believer, no matter what these folks say! No man can serve 2 masters - if you're serving Christ, you can't be serving Satan.

As to the dreamcatchers - I think these folks are off base. I see nothing demonic in them and have no fear of such. My daughters have 2 dreamcatchers in their room - both made by enrolled Native American craftspeople. I don't know what was involved in how they were made, but I'm certainly not fearful of them being possessed with any evil power whatsoever. My girls, and the rest of my household, sleep quite soundly every night, bottom line, and we pray to our Creator, God, for safe nights each night...
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Old 01-01-2008, 04:34 PM   #8
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1. most non-ndns don’t understand what a dream catcher is. First they need educated on what it is about, and how it is to be used. Which is why you see them for sale in gas stations as air freshners or *shudder* the pet aisle as cat toys… all made in China of course

2. one of the problems of Christianity that the ignorant, or not-really-Christians tend to exploit is the Dualism. Dualism is either “us or them” “black or white” with no room in between. Some Christian leaders split the world into Christian and anti- Christian. If you’re not one of them you are considered the enemy. So any other religion or element that is not based on the Abrahamic God is wrong and evil.

So yeah…. It doesn’t surprise me that there are some Christians offended by dreamcatchers. They were also offended by interracial marriage, rock & roll, divorce, drinking, Halloween, spongebob, & tinky winky.
I would say education is the key, but since Christianity also has a history of borrowing and appropriating from other religions as well.
today there are Christian rock concerts, Christian raves and Christian shamans???... there may soon be Christian dreamcatchers for sale in gas stations soon.
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Old 01-01-2008, 05:07 PM   #9
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Well thanks you guys. I've calmed down a little bit about the website, but I still wish there was something that could be done to show these people exactly how ignorant and blinded they really are. Anyway, I've decided the best thing that I and any other Christians can do is pray that they will see how wrong they are and change...
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Old 01-01-2008, 05:11 PM   #10
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pure ignorance and fear of difference that is all it is. Unfortunetly the Christian church tends to imply that anything that is not specific to the traditions of that particular church is something evil that should be feared and shunned. Its so unfortunate, its up to people like you to make a difference.
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Old 01-01-2008, 05:29 PM   #11
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pure ignorance and fear of difference that is all it is. Unfortunetly the Christian church tends to imply that anything that is not specific to the traditions of that particular church is something evil that should be feared and shunned. Its so unfortunate, its up to people like you to make a difference.

Not all Christians feel this way, thank goodness. After I told a couple of my white friends, they got really mad because they said the website makes all white Christians look really bad. They've been sending the author nasty e-mails, one after the other all day. Of course, that doesn't make them look great as kind and loving Christians...but whatever...
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Old 01-01-2008, 05:36 PM   #12
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No offense meant by that friend. Most of my family is Christian too. Unfortunetly this is the mindstate that is perpetuated amongst the Leadership and teachings of most Christian churches. Not saying "Christians are bad" by any means.
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Old 01-01-2008, 05:43 PM   #13
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No offense meant by that friend. Most of my family is Christian too. Unfortunetly this is the mindstate that is perpetuated amongst the Leadership and teachings of most Christian churches. Not saying "Christians are bad" by any means.
I know you weren't. :) But it's websites and people like the author of the website who make all Christians look bad. It's kind of ridiculous, I don't understand how they could even say they're following the Bible. It makes me really angry, because they're dissing and degrading my people, and making me and other sensible Christians look bad in the process.
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Old 01-04-2008, 06:01 PM   #14
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One thing that I've learned in my lifetime is that people usually fear and talk bad about things they don't understand especially people that are into religion. And it would help if they took the time to research but they don't.
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:59 AM   #15
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I followed the one link, and then followed another link to another website called Demon busters. This is quoted right from Demonbusters...

NOTE: The below information came from an advertisement selling dreamcatchers.

I was standing in line after getting gasoline, and this BIG sign was hanging on the glass window that said,

"DREAM

CATCHER

OR

MANDELLA

Assorted styles and colors, $2.99"

Inside the package was a little card from the Elpaso trading post, Inc. that said,

"A very well known native American tradition is the presence of the "DREAM CATCHER" in their homes. Dreams flow in succession in the night. These dreams, though good or bad, succumb to the magic of the DREAM CATCHER. Good dreams know their way through the DREAM CATCHER never awakening the dreamer. Unpleasant dreams, however, become entangled in the weaving perishing in the first sign of a new morning. DREAM CATCHERS are hung by the children's bedside to make them feel warm and protected.

Make this DREAM CATCHER a part of your home and have pleasant dreams."

The object is Indian, with a netted hoop about four inches across. Hanging from it are two pieces of material with feathers attached.



The below information came from a magazine add selling dreamcatchers.

"The Mandella has its origin in the Indian War Shield. The design on each ring of the Mandella represents different ideas depending on various tribes. Each mandella is made of fur, feathers, wool, leather, beads. Colors are turquoise, brown, black, blue, red, tan.

The legend of the Dream Catcher is believed to have originated many generations ago in the Sioux Nation. The Dream Catcher was hung in the teepee, above someone sleeping, to guard against bad dreams. The Dream Catcher allowed good dreams to pass through and slide down the feathers onto the sleeper. But a bad dream would become entangled in the Dream Catcher, and in the morning the sun would melt it away. To this day many people believe in the power of the Dream Catcher. Others see the Dream Catcher as a beautiful decoration."





OK so there is that, sounds like a fair description. Every tribe has their own little story for the origins of the dream catcher. For the Anishinaabe people it is pretty much the same story, an ornament that is hung over a cradleboard to amuse and keep a child quiet. It is thought the ornament catches the bad dreams that make the child cry. It is traditionally made of a hoop made from a willow branch and red sinew. That is kinda funny because I always made mine from red sinew, not because of tradition, but because red is all I had. I didn't know any different at the time.


That website is totally devoted to hardcore christianity. My only experience with people like that is that they do anything to try and convert you. They quote scripture and pray and will say just about anything to defend their religion and get you to convert to it.

The first website, the Annointed Youth seems pretty respectful, at least from a christian perspective. It doesnt really seem like they are bashing us or anything about it, just a few people seeking answers. It does seem like they are bashing the Demon busters website. That is kind of strange because I have never seen christians bash other christians. Hmmm.....
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:04 AM   #16
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The first website, the Annointed Youth seems pretty respectful, at least from a christian perspective. It doesnt really seem like they are bashing us or anything about it, just a few people seeking answers. It does seem like they are bashing the Demon busters website. That is kind of strange because I have never seen christians bash other christians. Hmmm.....
Trust me, we do it all the time...though I wouldn't consider it bashing exactly, just saying that they're wrong. I posted the long string of unsavory words that I feel effectively describes whoever made the Demonbusters website, THEN I would be bashing another Christian. If you could consider him a Christian at all.
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:30 PM   #17
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Hey,

That sounds like that would make a pretty good parody of a well known movie.

When your house is wack, and your wife's possessed... who you gonna call...

DEMON BUSTERS!!!!

When your car wont run, cause of some demon... who you gonna call...

DEMON BUSTERS!!!!
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:01 PM   #18
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Talking A parody is all that "demonic" stuff...

Dear Crazywolf, -Monday, Jan. 14, 2008.-

Hope everybody is doing great over there!
A parody is all that "demonic" stuff they say about dreamcatchers... Love you all,
---Cuetzpallincihuatl.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:18 PM   #19
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I usually don't comment on any religious threads because I believe "to each his own" in regards to spirituality. However, this incident reminds me of this time I attended a church camp for Baptist Indian teens. During one afternoon mass the sermon focused powwows, stompdances and other traditional ceremonies and also labeled them as evil. This unfortunate incident ended my baptist career because I enjoy these cultural events way too much to feel guilty about it. I will not commit to any organized religious church since then because I feel like it doesn't agree with Native culture.
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Old 01-15-2008, 03:56 PM   #20
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Cuetzpallincihuatl will become famous soon enough
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mexico Tenochtitlan
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I am in the same situation...

My Dear Amarie49,

Hope you are having a wonderful time over there!
I am in the same situation as you. I donīt congregate in churches anymore for the same reason... It was a christian church... I began to feel out of place when they said that our dances and ceremonies are pagan... They said many things that made me feel offended, so I decided no to attend anymore. - I know God loves me anyhow, (Wankantanka, Ipalnemohuan...). He is the same, with many different names from different places... The Great Spirit loves us all, no matter what...!! - Thatīs what I do believe now! They (churches) donīt leave another option. --God give us many options to show Him our Love. ---Truly yours, Cuetzpallincihuatl.
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