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Old 07-12-2012, 06:49 AM   #1
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a feminist question ?

Hi !
I was told that Navajos have a matriarchal society. Is that frequent or do you have patriaral societies too ?
Connected to this question, I wonder what is the place of women in your respective tribes.
Thank you for your explanations.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:22 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christelle View Post
Hi !
I was told that Navajos have a matriarchal society. Is that frequent or do you have patriaral societies too ?
Connected to this question, I wonder what is the place of women in your respective tribes.
Thank you for your explanations.
While this website is for and about Native peoples and a specific way of gathering, it is not per se, a site to give you an internet degree in Native studies.

If you are wondering about anything with respect to us, I suggest you conduct your own level of inquiry and read some of the many tomes written about us by those that felt we were lab specimens and informants.

On a personal note, I'm am rather tired of white women who jump all over the notion that some of our societies, clans, houses and families run through the mother and immediately equate that to feminism. Once again, there is always an air of needing to study us as if we are a lost people or people that no longer live in the current, modern societies imposed upon us.

Why must you white folks always try to equate us to something in your world? You do that with our belief systems - you immediately want to equate what we believe to a Christian value and if you can't we get pegged with the classification of being a pagan.

When you people are not trying to make us out to be like you, you are trying to be us. I can't think of any other racial group that is the subject of extreme hobbyists the way Europeans pretend to be NDN. I never seem to stop being amazed at the numbers of Germans and French people on this site who think it's ok to study us as if we were a science or archeology project and then dress up as us all under the pretense that you simply "love our way of life".

Like so many that come on here, when you discover that we aren't trapped in a single moment in time and preserved just for you to observe, study, emulate and steal from, you all seem to get upset at us because we aren't the real Indians you want us to be.

When we all don't have a bluebird singing off our shoulder, you say we aren't authentic enough for you. Worse, you decide who is and who isn't NDN enough for you. I love it when a white person says, "You don't look Indian" compared to their white skin and blonde hair.

Christelle, you are a guest here. You have been pushing and shoving your way into the site with little regard for the way we do things here. Your first day was to solicit friendship requests from people that you hadn't said one thing to prior to your request. In my culture, it is considered rude to refuse a request from anyone - however, you seem to be unaware of the obligation you have placed on many of us. You have waded into our lives with little understanding of us and now you want us to explain us to you.

I think before you type one more post that you do some serious reading. You can even start with the thousands of posts here on this site - there are many, many threads on good books to read, TV shows to watch, movies to view and lectures, Native academic journals, law reviews and scholarship essays to read.

Your first statement that you were "told something", indicates that you either were gossiping or that your informant that told you this information did not know enough to continue on to answer your questions that you have posed here.

Why not go back to your original informant and ask them what they meant? If they didn't know anything about us, then why are you even having a conversation about us - all you are appearing then to be doing is spreading and perpetuating rumours and half truths.
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I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:34 AM   #3
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Hi ! I have just read your post. I won't disturb you with my questions in any way. I quite apologize to you if I seemed to you disrespectful. It was not my intention.I am sorry.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:44 AM   #4
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In my honest opinion there is no place for femininity in Indigenous cultures. There are men's roles and there are women's roles. Femininity is a eurocentric concept is not part of the equation from my perspective.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:08 AM   #5
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I believed I could find here with you answers to the numerous questions that we settle(arise) in my country. Once again I am saddened if my attitude seemed disrespectful later of you all. I hoped I could exchange on our cultures respective to have better one understanding of yours. I am someone sensitive, I do not like the conflicts whatever they are and especially I do not like disturbing.
I thank those who have shared with me including those who made me understand that I was on a bad road.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christelle View Post
I believed I could find here with you answers to the numerous questions that we settle(arise) in my country. Once again I am saddened if my attitude seemed disrespectful later of you all. I hoped I could exchange on our cultures respective to have better one understanding of yours. I am someone sensitive, I do not like the conflicts whatever they are and especially I do not like disturbing.
I thank those who have shared with me including those who made me understand that I was on a bad road.
I don't believe you have done anything wrong but have merely inadvertently tapped into a typically submerged undercurrent.

As black/what/simple/exaggerated as I can make it, here is the model:

1. White kid hears rap and likes it.
2. White kid wants to learn "black culture."
3. White kid approaches black folks to become validated.
4. White kid learns black rappers are businessmen, not thugs.
5. White kid gets mad at black folks for not being "black."

It's not a model that creates wins for anyone.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
I don't believe you have done anything wrong but have merely inadvertently tapped into a typically submerged undercurrent.

As black/what/simple/exaggerated as I can make it, here is the model:

1. White kid hears rap and likes it.
2. White kid wants to learn "black culture."
3. White kid approaches black folks to become validated.
4. White kid learns black rappers are businessmen, not thugs.
5. White kid gets mad at black folks for not being "black."

It's not a model that creates wins for anyone.
I've tried to stay out of this tread, cause I just don't think it was my place to respond, still don't, but, I so owe you rep for that model
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:44 PM   #8
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:02 PM   #9
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. — Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:11 PM   #10
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. — Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:16 PM   #11
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. — Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:54 PM   #12
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I am wondering if Christelle is having a hard time phrasing her questions gracefully. I don't think English is her first language.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:19 PM   #13
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I doubt it's a first language problem Leanne.

I speak German, French and Russian fluently. Asking a Native woman if her society is likened to a feminist regime is just plain Eurocentric no matter what language you couch it in.
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I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:58 PM   #14
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:15 PM   #15
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:11 AM   #16
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Christine, google can also be a very useful research tool for things like this. That way, toes don't get stepped on and you can be more informed before asking questions.
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:38 AM   #17
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Christine, google can also be a very useful research tool for things like this. That way, toes don't get stepped on and you can be more informed before asking questions.
I'd be careful of what you get from the internet, unless you are googling the a specific tribe and going to their official webpage to get specific info on that particular tribe, I would believe NOTHING you find on the internet, that is usually how we come about dealing with folks who ask inappropriate questions, because if they didn't hear it from someone, they got it off the internet from the cyber-shamman, I mean look how many people go to the UCN web page for "their" history, culture , and heritage, vs. going to the official Cherokee Nation webpage. If they would only go to the PROPER places, @Josiah wouldn't be so busy debunking myths. lol

@yaahl, great videos

@Itzhecatl EXCELLENT video
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:32 AM   #18
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:44 AM   #19
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So why didn't I get a mention rez? Sheesh. I posted here too! lol
Feeling a little left out @comadre?
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:11 PM   #20
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Last edited by comadre; 09-12-2012 at 03:47 AM..
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