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Old 11-02-2012, 12:43 PM   #41
Ugh. As. If.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth_operator View Post
lol smh black twinkie, asian twinkie (assuming once again lmao) please remember it is you who are making these comments. who say i was going to spread info

why do i care if you know lakotas? (deflecting once again)


who says that my question was rude PAY ATTENTION YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE TAKING IT THAT WAY, people have came in this thread and told me that i was wrong or they didnt agree yet you still over there having a hissy fit(WHY??) and you taking what i say in terms of the caucasin and what i say about the other races out of context and putting your spin on it (strawman) to fit your premise.

all that talk about it "isnt for you and leave it alone" pisses me off because i ask the question in sincerity it is you who took it as such


mile all the arguing you doing isnt helping anything AT ALL. PERIOD.
ssshhhhhhh....it's ooookkkkaaaayyyyy...calm down, wipe those tears, take a deep breath and slowly count to ten. feel better now?

how's my technique? did i do ok? is this mee?
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:56 PM   #42
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ok....lemme make myself clear.....i TRIED explaining it to him, he just ignored my explanation and kept asking

the hopi's really started getting attention when they started refusing the draft during ww2 & korea even getting themselves locked up....because they ARE a peaceful people...then the beatnik/hippie movement came along and then vietnam where once again they opposed the draft but now had many like-minded people paying attention

so naturally some exploiters namely a robert "morningsky" (made up name), a quarterblood who never lived on the rez started getting himself paid to speak at seminars and such.....and the hopi elders did NOT like it......and of course after that floods of white people came along holding seminars and teaching "hopi beliefs" for a price of course....and making up it was word of certain elders either non-existant or taken advantage of

as a half taos (with jemez stepdad and hopi/zuni ex-ol lady) i been to quite a few pueblos for feast or dances...like i said if its anything thats truly religious most pueblos close gates to rez and post tribal cops at entrance....hopi is no different

religion is a very private matter with SW injuns.....most of us do NOT share it...i was talking to some sioux friends who wish that they didnt share sweats/yuwipis with non-sioux so long ago because that opens the door to the twinkieism you see today....so long story short most other pueblos learned thier lesson from the hopi....i would like to see mr smooth operator go to navajo-land and ask around about snakes and all thier taboos.....or the tiny spanish towns and ask about penitentes and what they do in moradas...or to ask a bunch of questions about the ga'an in apache-land..he will get the same response.....SILENCE...then eventually told to look elsewhere

i maintain my position....pueblos do NOT discuss religion PERIOD with outsiders....and if your an outsidr you either already know the answers OR you know better than to ask
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:17 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighsalute View Post
...a quarterblood who never lived on the rez started getting himself paid to speak at seminars and such...
If he knows what he's talking about -- and I am not saying so -- what's the rub? That he's 1/4 blood and never lived on the Federal Government's Native Wildlife Refuge?

I'm not cherry-picking or addressing you, specifically, but that is the sort of thing which annoys me.

I've seen plenty of fullblood and rez-livin' idiots and many 1/16th blood and urban genius types being paid to do LOTS of Native stuff.

I've only ever cared about whether their head was in their posterior.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
If he knows what he's talking about -- and I am not saying so -- what's the rub? That he's 1/4 blood and never lived on the Federal Government's Native Wildlife Refuge?

I'm not cherry-picking or addressing you, specifically, but that is the sort of thing which annoys me.

I've seen plenty of fullblood and rez-livin' idiots and many 1/16th blood and urban genius types being paid to do LOTS of Native stuff.

I've only ever cared about whether their head was in their posterior.
well he made up most of the prophecies like the "blue star kachina" and other absurdities....then CHARGED people to hear his "knowledge".....statements were issued by the tribe against him and many others.....what gets me is people ignore the statements issued by tribes as long as they are hearing what they want.....and the whole "pahana white brother" stuff whipped white people into a frenzy..........some things arent meant for non-indians...thats all

yes....to answer your question...his head was up his ***....and yeah im also an urban injun
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:02 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Paul G View Post
Now that I have posted asking people to give you a chance, let me respond to you.

First I believe you should be able to come on this forum and ask questions without being attacked, name called, etc. I try to stop that when I can.

However you also have to realize that you came on to a forum dedicated to the discussion of a culture different than yours.

When asking questions about other people's culture, you have to do so with respect and sensitivity.

Many people feel entitled to information about Native culture. But much of what you are asking is very personal and private.

The respect must go both ways.
Thanks paul for the info I don't know about the Hopi tribe here.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:00 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by milehighsalute View Post
...some things arent meant for non-indians...thats all...
What "stuff," precisely and what constitutes a "non-Indian?"

Again, I am NOT calling you out, I just think those are BIG questions.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:27 AM   #47
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For those who don't know me, I'm white (I always excuse myself for being so, but that's another story!!!).

As being white, I write this words as an outsider, with no rights. I just like to add a few words.

I think many people, including myself, ask themself if the Hopi (and other Native tribes) have something to tell us.
What is the reason for this? Is it not with a hope of finding a solution, a lifeboat, to all our problems in today's society?

Speaking for myself, I'm not prode of the white man's history, the way we have behaved toward other civilisations and people!
This is my reason for joining this forum, hoping to find some guidelines, based on Native tradition and beliefs.
I do not know if this tradition still exist, but if it does, I DO UNDERSTAND, as being a white, a not native person, I have no right to ask you these questions, and if I do ask, I would not be given any answer.
But please do not "throw stones" on a person comming to you in peace. I do not think our guest is trying to steal anything from you, and trick you in any way, but you should consider him / her as a person trying to find the road, asking for help and guidence.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:50 AM   #48
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(I always excuse myself for being so [non-Indian], but that's another story!!!).
Goggen, I was taught that the Creator made all things from eagles to people to maggots exactly as He wanted them. Then He placed them on their lands and within each he placed His special gifts. Consider then that when you apologize for being who the Creator made you to be, you are saying He made a mistake.

As a mixed-blood woman, I wasted a good number of years in anger over not being fully any one group of people. You will never be able to enjoy the gifts the Creator gave you until you can be at peace with who you are.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:13 AM   #49
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Goggen, I was taught that the Creator made all things from eagles to people to maggots exactly as He wanted them. Then He placed them on their lands and within each he placed His special gifts. Consider then that when you apologize for being who the Creator made you to be, you are saying He made a mistake.

As a mixed-blood woman, I wasted a good number of years in anger over not being fully any one group of people. You will never be able to enjoy the gifts the Creator gave you until you can be at peace with who you are.
Thanks for your wise words OLChemist!!!
Yes, you are right! If I do not accept myself, I do not accept the creation of the Creator, and the gifts He gave me!

PS: Sorry for moving away from the subject of this thread!
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:14 PM   #50
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This is the issue with the twinkies and the wannabes. They can't find want they need/want in themselves and their families. So, rather than look to their teachings from the Creator, they do a Columbus. But, the stolen clothes don't fit.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:43 PM   #51
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well i did offer an explanation in my first post why he would not get an answer unless its misinformation....i guess he didnt like my answer an as JD pointed out he skipped over 2 ndns and continued to ask a white guy (who tried...no problem with him) to explain it to him......after that this thread went downhill................BUT this is just a very small scale example of what injuns face everyday.....NO ONE wants to hear us because we dont tell them what they want to hear.....they would rather somebody else thats NOT us tell them misinformation and readily accept that as truth and then they in turn tell misinformation and pass it off as knowledge......as someone said earlier...pueblos do NOT discuss thier religion EVER....especially with outsiders.........and people goin around saying they have knowledge of it are telling tales....i worked with a white woman who once claimed to be a healer and charged people to do hopi/pueblo ceremonies...her side "business" was called KIVA ENTERPRISES and she made a great deal of cash speaking and doin her ceremony stuff...tellin people she studied for years amongst all the pueblos gettin in touch with her cherokee heritage......anyways i told everyone to beware because there was NO WAY she could EVER practice pueblo medicine....2 major things blocked her....1) she was non-pueblo and not even the greediest real pueblo would teach her and 2) she is a WOMAN.....thats really a no go in pueblo culture.....a woman's job is to make bread and chili and let the men pray for them.....no way she EVER saw the inside of a kiva SMH
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:51 PM   #52
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Quote:
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What "stuff," precisely and what constitutes a "non-Indian?"

Again, I am NOT calling you out, I just think those are BIG questions.
the STUFF is exactly what we dont talk about.....touche'

and what constitutes a non-ndn? age old question...lets just say if your an outsider in such a tight knit tribe youre probably a non-PUEBLO.....maybe i should have phrased that better

and ZEKE....i looked at alot of your comments in other conversations....feel free to call me out anytime....you take an intelligent approach to represent the other side of the coin though i do feel many times you like to play devil's advocate...it keeps people honest ill give you that and we do need that as much as anyone else....either way its healthy for us all so please NEVER STOP.....much respect
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:23 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
I'm not Hopi but I've learned a few things over the years.

1) The dominant culture understandings of intellectual property and cultural patrimony are very different from those of all the Native peoples I know. We tend to have different modes of sharing and transmission of knowledge. There is some knowledge that cannot be shared with the unauthorized without physical and metaphysical consequences. Therefore Pueblo people don't share the secrets of their religious orders.

2) It's hard to cite oral tradition and traditional teaching to the satisfaction of the dominant culture. They place great import on the printed word and grant it authority over the spoken. The upshot of which is any lies printed about us are believed before we are.

3) All you have to do is look at what happened to the Pueblo people when they met up with the Spanish Inquisition in the form of the Spanish missionaries. The terrible aftermath should be reason enough for them to be unwilling to share, without invoking indigenous ethics. Any outsider who says they have intimate knowledge of Pueblo religion is telling tales.

4) I have never encountered a Native culture which provides a path to conversion or seeks converts. The missionary impulse is by and large absent from traditional religions. So, any system which creates an integrative practice or mythology is suspect.


Sorry, no footnotes. Just one Native, scientist woman's 47's years of life speaking :)
thank you....here is an old discussion that kinda backs up what you say......pueblo's are VERY private and whoever told told smooth operator this BS is making stuff up.....but so what else is new huh?
anyways i re-read this and he seems to also think thant maybe sinc he is not white he cannot be a victim of twinkie'ism? well.....i get the feeling he is black.......so the only difference is that he is a chocodile
but i really did try to help him out....he didnt want to see that bbecause he was felt someone OWED him answers to our religion (which i maintain is NOT intended for him or any other non-pueblo) he would take ANY explanation other than mine........but im beating a dead horse here........i just thought this other thread i referenced kind of backed up the general feeling of how pueblos feel about their spirtitual ways being discussed and misrepresented........thanks all for your time
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:39 AM   #54
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http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=17151 whoops that post woulda made alot more sense if i remembered to post link haha
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:41 PM   #55
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What is a "Twinkie"? I am not familiar with this idiom.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:17 AM   #56
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What is a "Twinkie"? I am not familiar with this idiom.
A New Age, crystal totin', gotta have an animal spirit guide/totem wannabe.

Edited to add: A lot of them claim Cherokee heritage because their great great grandma was a Cherokee princess. LOL!
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:15 AM   #57
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one thing im sure of.....instead of giving up this pushy ******* probably asked around and asked around until he found some unknowledgable people to fill him with mis-information.........then he will become an expert
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:16 PM   #58
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Side note: My daughter wanted her birthday dinner last night instead of Dec. 27th...just in case...
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:07 PM   #59
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There was yet another "prophecy" but he did not get elected!

The “White Horse Prophecy” refers to a prediction made by Joseph Smith Jr. (1808-1844) who was the founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) [aka as the Mormon religion], and was reported to have said that a time would come when the US Constitution would be hanging by a thread and a church elder from Zion [Mormon Church] will ride in on a metaphorical white horse and save it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:22 AM   #60
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Quote:
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it really make you look childish you need to get better control of your emotions and work on your heart chakra
Dude, no.

Just no.
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