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Old 08-14-2007, 09:47 AM   #1
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"Tribe" selling fake memberships

Man, I can stand these fake tribal groups:

Indianz.Com > News > Arrests linked to tribe selling 'membership'
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:57 AM   #2
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Whoa, what will they think of next?? It's too crazy. *shakes head in disbelief*
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:13 PM   #3
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"Tribe" selling fake memberships

This happens all the time. We have been approached several times just in the past year to "join" this "Tribe" or that "Tribe" for a $25 (or whatever that particular donation fee is). My relatives would flip. We always say "no thanks. We have our family."

Everyone involved with these "Tribes" are either a "Chief" or "Clan Mother" or a "Medicine Person". And many of them have actual "Tribal Cards" with their pictures on them. But they are not State or Federally Recognized, we have checked many of them out and found out what they are.

People are always coming up to us at Pow Wow's and saying "Oh my bloodline is (this), but I am a member of (that) tribe". We don't know how that can be? We get confused by that all the time, yet it is happening.

But then this has been happening for many many years. Believe it or not, there are many out there that are like that and so many don't even know it.

It's sad.
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Old 08-14-2007, 11:19 PM   #4
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FYI...theres another thread already going on this topic,with the full story..so far

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/nat...tion-scam.html
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:41 PM   #5
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LOL-that's why they say "buyer beware"!
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:17 PM   #6
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i think the best thing is to expose them as frauds. Educate the general public as well as those likley to be targeted to what a real tribe is and how you just can't buy your way in.. and all that.
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Old 08-17-2007, 02:32 PM   #7
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You know...

I was approached by a "chief" one day, asked to join his tribe. He said he liked the way I danced (fancy) and that I would be a great assett to the tribe. I said, Fine, what tribe is is?

I cannot remember the exact termanology, but it was something like the Southern St. John's Cherokee Confederacy or some such thing like that. Anyway, there are dues of $75 per month, but just for me he would wave off the first 3 months. So I asked what would be the benifits? He said, first you would be a member of a state recognized tribe and entitled to the benifits thereof, which, I found out later amounts out to be a hill of beans.

You get these groups of people, I feel like that some of them do have NDN blood in them, and either cannot prove it, or do not like the way things are run within their tribe and go off and start their own little war, or are told to go away by the tribe probably for a very good reason and then still go off and form their own little groups. Since the group has no actual legetimacy, they figure out that people are not going to beat a path to their door, so they have to do something to get members. Hmmm, go to pow wows and recruit? Not a bad idea. Get enough members and then start a pow wow, and recruit, and get money... oooo better idea yet, but first one thing at a time. Get people to join, and pay dues, and help out on the "grounds" for free.

That sound about right? Of course its not against the law to have pow wows, or even make money at pow wows. I am not even sure if its against the law to charge for membership in some kind of not-for-profit organization, either that or ask for "donations" I guess it all has to be worded very carefully. But at anyrate, to the chief, I said, you do not even know me, have never spoken to me and do not know what kind of person I am. Why would one stranger ask another to join him without even knowing the simplest of information, like my name? Thankyou, no.

Derek
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Old 08-17-2007, 03:12 PM   #8
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Why would one stranger ask another to join him without even knowing the simplest of information, like my name?
"$$$."

But even the most rabidly hypocritical among us seem to stoop to such measures with regularity.

In fact, I am aware of one such (word used loosely) "organization" soliciting funds for a powwow -- with "complimentary organization membership" for donating -- wherein their cover letter states that non-profit status is "pending."

Caveat Emptor, in all cases.

An awarded 501(c)3 at least validates financial accountability, Board/Membership representation and by-definition transparency. A lack of such, inability to obtain, or requesting funds reporting that such status is "pending" truly smells. Declaring yourself high chieftan of a clan existing only in personal fantasy is delusional...
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:48 PM   #9
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"$$$."

But even the most rabidly hypocritical among us seem to stoop to such measures with regularity.

In fact, I am aware of one such (word used loosely) "organization" soliciting funds for a powwow -- with "complimentary organization membership" for donating -- wherein their cover letter states that non-profit status is "pending."

Caveat Emptor, in all cases.

An awarded 501(c)3 at least validates financial accountability, Board/Membership representation and by-definition transparency. A lack of such, inability to obtain, or requesting funds reporting that such status is "pending" truly smells. Declaring yourself high chieftan of a clan existing only in personal fantasy is delusional...
Man this guy makes a lotta sense.

Hey! Lets sell copies of descendant cards on Ebay! I bet we could get a ton of money that could go towards my fund of moving to Minnesota!
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:18 PM   #10
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"$$$."

But even the most rabidly hypocritical among us seem to stoop to such measures with regularity.
Declaring yourself high chieftan of a clan existing only in personal fantasy is delusional...
such as starting indian "clubs"??? and i agree,your plans for starting a wannabee nation are truly delusional and fantasy....
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
"$$$."

But even the most rabidly hypocritical among us seem to stoop to such measures with regularity.

In fact, I am aware of one such (word used loosely) "organization" soliciting funds for a powwow -- with "complimentary organization membership" for donating -- wherein their cover letter states that non-profit status is "pending."

Caveat Emptor, in all cases.

An awarded 501(c)3 at least validates financial accountability, Board/Membership representation and by-definition transparency. A lack of such, inability to obtain, or requesting funds reporting that such status is "pending" truly smells. Declaring yourself high chieftan of a clan existing only in personal fantasy is delusional...

ROTFLMAO pow-wow club whiner
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Old 08-18-2007, 01:15 PM   #12
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how is it zeke that you can have your place in Kansas city and service Indians but when I try to start something totally different here in St. Louis, that your center in Kansas city obviously doesn't support (as I said in person to you, during our meeting, after your attitude, we don't want your attitude or help) but then your trying to get other people to stand up with you in St. Louis and now here to take over St. Louis, thanks for the power lol........but all the American Indians in our group...American Indian Educational Resources of St. Louis feel like I do, is this a crime because we won't jump on your Indian center band (chuck) wagon??, no thanks we ride horses............

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Old 08-18-2007, 02:44 PM   #13
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Old 08-18-2007, 02:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
"$$$."

But even the most rabidly hypocritical among us seem to stoop to such measures with regularity.

In fact, I am aware of one such (word used loosely) "organization" soliciting funds for a powwow -- with "complimentary organization membership" for donating -- wherein their cover letter states that non-profit status is "pending."

Caveat Emptor, in all cases.

An awarded 501(c)3 at least validates financial accountability, Board/Membership representation and by-definition transparency. A lack of such, inability to obtain, or requesting funds reporting that such status is "pending" truly smells. Declaring yourself high chieftan of a clan existing only in personal fantasy is delusional...

oh yeah and one more thing and then I'm done with zeke..
this sounds like him and his actions, the guy who wrote this, well thats his opinion...well zeke if the shoe fits.......

KC Indian Center Director Says Indians Will Be Saved By Wannabes

Word is making the rounds in the Indian communities of Missouri that a new onslaught is being mounted against them. This time it comes from part of the Indian community itself, Heart of America Indian Center in Kansas City, Missouri. The Center comes into suspect as being a genuine American Indian supporter by the very fact that it links to one of the worst organizations in existence that maligns American Indian histories and traditions - Manataka. Manataka is a New Age organization headquartered in Hot Springs, Arkansas, that pretends to be American Indian and believes that aliens built crystal power structures in caves that they blasted into the mountains surrounding the area. This is the least weird claim.The 35 year old executive director of the Heart of America Indian Center stresses that tribes are worthless relics of the past and that there never has been such a thing as tribal sovereignty. He views anyone who wishes to preserve their tribal culture and traditions as racist cultural police. Seeing tribal sovereignty as being genocidal, he welcomes wannabe tribes and wannabe ?Indians? as saviors to American Indian existence. In other words, plastic Indians and their non-profit corporate ?tribes? will fill in and take the place of real ones - thereby saving the American Indian.A 2003 Masters Graduate in Public Affairs from Parks University, a branch of the St. Louis University, he believes that Haskell is inferior to any other college in the nation. Graduates of Haskell, he has written, have a divisive mindset. This is apparently based on that Haskell promotes American Indian cultures and traditions. On the other hand, we do know that SLU has a watered American Indian studies program that conducts activities that are not exactly pro-Indian.The centers plan is to establish Indian Centers throughout Missouri to service the wannabe tribes, completely ignoring the damage they do through fabricated history and making up traditions. Part of the services will be to gain funding originally intended for legitimate American Indians and use it for the plastic Indians instead. Although resistance to this plan is starting in the St. Louis Indian community, other areas in the state will be wide open for this travesty. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case where Indian centers have not performed in the best interest of their constituents. One example is the 2005 attempt by the ?Red Nation of the Cherokee? to take over the Mid-American All-Indian Center in Kansas City, Kansas, and rename it the Red Nation of the Cherokee Mid-America All Indian Center.
Fortunately, ?Chief Randy Two Bears Standing Tate? of the Red Nation of the Cherokee, failed in his takeover attempt. Whether or not the Executive Director of the Heart of America Indian Center fails or
succeeds in his plans is not as certain. It will depend on the
reactions and actions by legitimate American Indians in Missouri that are taken against this insult. Either way, the Heart of America Indian Center has lost all of its credibility.


why do you live off of 501c3's and grants again Zeke?? oh that's right it pays your pockets, at least I can say the money I drum up for the area Indians are going to help the community Indians here and the money goes in their pockets and I can sleep at night knowing I'm not following past corruption that our center had for years.....end of story...
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Old 08-18-2007, 03:15 PM   #15
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First this was just a double post,
but
now
this one keeps me thinking.

I heard a lot about cards and belonging to a tribe...
I am here in Germany, so: What is that card good for?
Money because Native American Indians used to own America,
before all that happened? Can't it just be enough for the US to have
a proof that you are Indians, can't your blood test tell? Do you have to
be member of a tribe to get a card and support that you deserve or special
rights or such? I bet many many of you will never ever be able to find out
which tribe their ancestors are from. What about these people? Do they not deserve to get the same as those who 'accidentally' know their granny?
Like I said...I am far away, but this keeps me thinking -> who causes
all this faking? Politics maybe?

Last edited by indian-heart-beat; 08-18-2007 at 03:33 PM..
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Old 08-18-2007, 03:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazywolf View Post
Man this guy makes a lotta sense.

Hey! Lets sell copies of descendant cards on Ebay! I bet we could get a ton of money that could go towards my fund of moving to Minnesota!
Cool! I want one! What can I do with it in Germany? J/K
Incredible, isn't it?
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Old 08-18-2007, 04:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indian-heart-beat View Post
First this was just a double post,
but
now
this one keeps me thinking.

I heard a lot about cards and belonging to a tribe...
I am here in Germany, so: What is that card good for?
Money because Native American Indians used to own America,
before all that happened? Can't it just be enough for the US to have
a proof that you are Indians, can't your blood test tell? Do you have to
be member of a tribe to get a card and support that you deserve or special
rights or such? I bet many many of you will never ever be able to find out
which tribe their ancestors are from. What about these people? Do they not deserve to get the same as those who 'accidentally' know their granny?
Like I said...I am far away, but this keeps me thinking -> who causes
all this faking? Politics maybe?
IHB it was my post I accidently hit enter twice and it posted twice and I didn't think we needed to hear about it twice lol
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Old 08-18-2007, 04:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by kiowakat View Post
IHB it was my post I accidently hit enter twice and it posted twice and I didn't think we needed to hear about it twice lol

Well, I was talking about me and my double post, I deleted one of them and wrote down what you quoted...
Good to know that this isn't happening to only me
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Old 08-18-2007, 10:05 PM   #19
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oh yeah and one more thing and then I'm done with zeke..
this sounds like him and his actions, the guy who wrote this, well thats his opinion...well zeke if the shoe fits.......

KC Indian Center Director Says Indians Will Be Saved By Wannabes

Word is making the rounds in the Indian communities of Missouri that a new onslaught is being mounted against them. This time it comes from part of the Indian community itself, Heart of America Indian Center in Kansas City, Missouri. The Center comes into suspect as being a genuine American Indian supporter by the very fact that it links to one of the worst organizations in existence that maligns American Indian histories and traditions - Manataka. Manataka is a New Age organization headquartered in Hot Springs, Arkansas, that pretends to be American Indian and believes that aliens built crystal power structures in caves that they blasted into the mountains surrounding the area. This is the least weird claim.The 35 year old executive director of the Heart of America Indian Center stresses that tribes are worthless relics of the past and that there never has been such a thing as tribal sovereignty. He views anyone who wishes to preserve their tribal culture and traditions as racist cultural police. Seeing tribal sovereignty as being genocidal, he welcomes wannabe tribes and wannabe ?Indians? as saviors to American Indian existence. In other words, plastic Indians and their non-profit corporate ?tribes? will fill in and take the place of real ones - thereby saving the American Indian.A 2003 Masters Graduate in Public Affairs from Parks University, a branch of the St. Louis University, he believes that Haskell is inferior to any other college in the nation. Graduates of Haskell, he has written, have a divisive mindset. This is apparently based on that Haskell promotes American Indian cultures and traditions. On the other hand, we do know that SLU has a watered American Indian studies program that conducts activities that are not exactly pro-Indian.The centers plan is to establish Indian Centers throughout Missouri to service the wannabe tribes, completely ignoring the damage they do through fabricated history and making up traditions. Part of the services will be to gain funding originally intended for legitimate American Indians and use it for the plastic Indians instead. Although resistance to this plan is starting in the St. Louis Indian community, other areas in the state will be wide open for this travesty. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case where Indian centers have not performed in the best interest of their constituents. One example is the 2005 attempt by the ?Red Nation of the Cherokee? to take over the Mid-American All-Indian Center in Kansas City, Kansas, and rename it the Red Nation of the Cherokee Mid-America All Indian Center.
Fortunately, ?Chief Randy Two Bears Standing Tate? of the Red Nation of the Cherokee, failed in his takeover attempt. Whether or not the Executive Director of the Heart of America Indian Center fails or
succeeds in his plans is not as certain. It will depend on the
reactions and actions by legitimate American Indians in Missouri that are taken against this insult. Either way, the Heart of America Indian Center has lost all of its credibility.


why do you live off of 501c3's and grants again Zeke?? oh that's right it pays your pockets, at least I can say the money I drum up for the area Indians are going to help the community Indians here and the money goes in their pockets and I can sleep at night knowing I'm not following past corruption that our center had for years.....end of story...
Hmmmmm....
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Old 08-19-2007, 10:06 PM   #20
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Well, now most of these comments, we do agree with. We can't figure out why the "fake" "Tribes" keep popping up all over other then the old saying "There's a sucker born every minute." We don't like to look at it this way, but it's the only way to see it right now. Many of us are getting tired of it and seeing all of these non-recognized Tribe's portraying themselves as "all knowing" about a tribe that has been together all their lives and living it wether all their lives or if they are just finding their way home now. There are so many lost people out there that just (really) don't know who they are and are looking for a quick fix and an even quicker answer to some questions in life. None of the answer's come over night and no one can tell you but you. This is what our Elders tell us. Just be who you are and what you are and it will all fall into place.

On another note, KiowaKarat--where in Oklahoma are you from? We have some very good friends from Oklahoma who are members of the Kiowa Nation and we went there a few years ago with our friend and had a wonderful time and just enjoyed spending time with their family.
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