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Old 02-05-2007, 09:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions View Post
Thank you for taking the time to key out the song words and their translations...Ken
Thanks for the kind words from you and others.
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:43 PM   #22
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tsuj510, why did you not win the 'Best Avatar' contest? Yours is the absolute best ever. I'm not kidding. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyawaqacumen View Post
I am Wyawaqacumen,

Son of all men.
Oh, my. I've heard of having two daddies, but nothing like this. :O
(Sorry! I had to.)
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:50 PM   #23
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Who Posted "You are weird"...cause that is my favorite post of all time!!!

Last edited by Lakota Wiyan; 02-05-2007 at 10:52 PM..
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:59 PM   #24
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tsuj510, why did you not win the 'Best Avatar' contest? Yours is the absolute best ever. I'm not kidding. :D

Hey-thanks! Good thing you aren't in Boston! Ayyyyy
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:00 PM   #25
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What is really disturbing about this thread is that while Historian is actually doing what Powwows.com is intended, in part, to do (educate), another "hobbyist" is going to come in and just blatantly state that they have every right to take information and interpret it in any way they want. THIS is how we lose so much of our culture, folks!

It's hard, then, to know where the boundaries are. Do we continue to share very valuable information that our own people might not have total access to? Do we run the risk of having more and more vital information set out for "interpretation"? How do we know that people aren't going to interprete wrong, and how they are going to use it? Should that be considered when we give random information to random strangers on the internet?

Just for the record, our songs have definite meaning! That is why they were created and that is why they were handed down. You can't take a penny song and sing it as a scalp song....you can't take a ceremonial song and sing it as kahomni song. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR INTERPRETATION!!!!
The songs mean what they mean, so just take that, chew on it, and move on to another subject, please!!!
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Old 02-06-2007, 12:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota Wiyan View Post
Who Posted "You are weird"...cause that is my favorite post of all time!!!
lol, Those were the only words I could find at the moment.
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Old 02-06-2007, 12:29 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota Wiyan View Post
Just for the record, our songs have definite meaning! That is why they were created and that is why they were handed down. You can't take a penny song and sing it as a scalp song....you can't take a ceremonial song and sing it as kahomni song. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR INTERPRETATION!!!! The songs mean what they mean, so just take that, chew on it, and move on to another subject, please!!!

Perfect Words!!!!!! Thankyou!
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:50 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anishinabealltheway View Post
lol, Those were the only words I could find at the moment.

All I could think of this morning while reading this thread was "WOW someone figured out how to get an AI program to post and named it Wyawaqacumen".

For anyone that's ever messed around with ELIZA - the responses to incoming information are remarkably the same... and those responses are given with as much comprehension as ELIZA exhibits.

Thank you Historian for your efforts, they are appreciated!
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Old 02-06-2007, 02:41 PM   #29
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Old 02-06-2007, 02:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyawaqacumen View Post

On the East Coast, it is difficult for many tribes to know their language. In the case of the Lenape people, we have a good amount of scholarship available to us to learn Lenape, however very few people of the Wenetko Lenape do that. The language is practically dead for us here on the East Coast.

For me, that's sad because I do know a little and have done some research to learn some Lenape, but I can't learn it well because no one else around me knows it well.
I didn't want to respond and encourage you, but going back and reading your posts kind of annoyed me. I am Lenape and I can assure you that there are people on the East Coast who are actively involved in language revitalization, working with both the tribes in Canada and OK. It is not "practically dead for us" by any means. I don't know who the "us" is since you've said you aren't Indian, so maybe that's why "there's no one around you to teach it" although I don't understand why you're attaching yourself to Lenape culture other than the fact you are living in the area. Anyway I respectfully ask that you stop propagating the myth online and probably in real life that the language is dead because *people who need to know, who have a legit tribal connection, are indeed knowing and learning it.* I hope you do not take this wrong because I am trying to express myself in a good way.
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Old 02-06-2007, 06:39 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by tsuj510 View Post
Hey-thanks! Good thing you aren't in Boston! Ayyyyy
:( Why did you change your avatar from what you had before? :( I liked the 'All up in my lands' one. It made me laugh.

Boston - psh. As a fan of the show that they... bleh. It's just dumb. :B

EDIT: THIS IS MY 100th POST ON THE POWWOWS FORUMS!!! :D
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:04 PM   #32
Two by two....
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota Wiyan View Post
What is really disturbing about this thread is that while Historian is actually doing what Powwows.com is intended, in part, to do (educate), another "hobbyist" is going to come in and just blatantly state that they have every right to take information and interpret it in any way they want. THIS is how we lose so much of our culture, folks!

It's hard, then, to know where the boundaries are. Do we continue to share very valuable information that our own people might not have total access to? Do we run the risk of having more and more vital information set out for "interpretation"? How do we know that people aren't going to interprete wrong, and how they are going to use it? Should that be considered when we give random information to random strangers on the internet?
It's certainly always a danger, yes. There will always be somebody who pretends to want to learn, but is really just there to justify themselves (and if what they're being taught doesn't already do that, then they make **** up so it does).

That doesn't mean that the rest of us don't get something from it. I have learned so much from this forum. More than I could possibly ever hope to learn about the Indian people than in the area I live in (I live in an area with a less than 1% American Indian population). I very much enjoyed the songs Historian posted and am looking on this site for perhaps songs I can listen to ('cuz reading doesn't do much justice to music, y'know?).

This site has reinforced in me an interest in Native American culture and issues. I hate the news, it's depressing and it's only a reminder of how much I dislike most people, but I've been lurking in the News and Issues forum more and more.

In short, yes, it is always a risk, but your efforts are not in vain. :)
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:55 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyawaqacumen View Post
Dear brothers and sisters,

Tonight, I listened to one song, a single Crow Hop from a recording I have and I want to share my thoughts of tradition and of lessons that can be learned from this song.

This is my interpretation and I don’t mean to suggest that it is a tradition of the Crow people. It is my worlds and my words that now speak, as I, bearman and Manito gifted man, sits in my understanding of old ways and how they can be interpreted.

I don’t want to offend or mislead my friends here either. I am touched, but in a different way than your spirit walkers were touched. Still, I come to the tribes and I want them to teach me, because you also are wise.

I respect your thoughts and traditions as well and I honor them, as you have honored me by allowing me voice on your forum. I hope we can continue to make each other wiser, as the great Manito would have us try. He is father sky and the turtle is mother earth and we all are just visitors here. Let our journey also be one that finds spiritual guidance from time to time and let us be at peace.

This is my truest way.

This is what I hear. May I honor the Crow in my words:

Drums start, they are the unison of the people coming together, as one, speaking with one voice.

A single man speaks. He speaks for the group: he is the leader and the way. He speaks happy thoughts and wants every one to be happy. The group responds and they say I agree; we are happy. They don’t just say thanks, they explain why. They are thankful for the day, for the night, for the rain, for the cold, for the sun, for the moon, for everything that great Manito has given them.

I too agree with them.

They repeat their song. They say it again. They are truly grateful and they honor the world around them and they honor the sacred.

Brothers and sisters, we should honor the Crow. They were deeply spiritual people and they were at peace with themselves.

I say “thank you.”

The second time that they say what they have to say, they are more excited. The third time their song is song of happiness, they sing it only as a group. The leader only needs to remind them twice of what happy life is. The people know that also in their hearts.

But sometimes, as the singer on the fourth verse reminds us, we have to keep telling people that life is ok. He reconfirms and shows us again that we are a people and that he loves us.

The people respond with more excitement and they sing at their best then. They are a group and they are wise together. They speak in unison, and honor every man in their tribes.

Then, it stops. They stop together in unison and they honor their tribe.

When we stop, I hope every man and woman will honor his tribe, be him Lakota, Swedish, Japanese, or Iraqi.

Every man knows peace; some just don’t choose it as their way. May they learn more about the world, someday.

I want to offer you this song. I will be happy to get it to you, if you too want to hear this song. I can send it to you, by mail or by email. Which ever is best, I don't mind. I think first of my people.

I am Wyawaqacumen,
The bearman,
Born to the salmon people and the raven.
Son of all men.

That is why I am called “Walking Everywhere.”

I hope I have honored your fire.

I will bring more tobacco next time. We should smoke our pipes more often, even if white doctors tell us we shouldn't.

We were wiser then. We spoke "injun." Damn the white man for doing what he's done.

I do not forgive those men.

They took away my people and I am not Lenape, I am Swedish.

Sometimes, even the native Americans can benefit from Viking thoughts.

We are the same.
I want to apologize to everyone for not addressing this when I first read it. I've been thinking on this and it has really bothered me.

This is exactly the type of thing that has has caused some concern for native people on here over the years. This also is one the very things that kiowakat has addressed time and time again about the culture being stolen and ba$tardized.

I do want to commend the posters here for showing a great deal of restraint.

Wyawaqacumen

Your "interpretations" mean nothing to others that do not ask. They are YOUR interpretations that were given to you by what ever force that be in your life. For you to come on here and give them to us in such a way not only shows extreme arrogance it is very distasteful.

You say you are Swedish...... that means you are a guest in this culture and on this board. You need to act as a guest as you would wish for someone to act in your mother's or grandmother's house.

It was already said that you want to talk more than you want to listen. Take that as some sound advice.
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Old 02-07-2007, 04:22 PM   #34
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Who Changed My Friggin' Avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightshadeTea View Post
:( Why did you change your avatar from what you had before? :( I liked the 'All up in my lands' one. It made me laugh.

Boston - psh. As a fan of the show that they... bleh. It's just dumb. :B

EDIT: THIS IS MY 100th POST ON THE POWWOWS FORUMS!!! :D

Yeah, me too! WT heck? Mods, do I offend? Gonna put it back up-maybe its just a glitch...
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Old 02-07-2007, 04:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota Wiyan View Post
What is really disturbing about this thread is that while Historian is actually doing what Powwows.com is intended, in part, to do (educate), another "hobbyist" is going to come in and just blatantly state that they have every right to take information and interpret it in any way they want. THIS is how we lose so much of our culture, folks!

It's hard, then, to know where the boundaries are. Do we continue to share very valuable information that our own people might not have total access to? Do we run the risk of having more and more vital information set out for "interpretation"? How do we know that people aren't going to interprete wrong, and how they are going to use it? Should that be considered when we give random information to random strangers on the internet?

Just for the record, our songs have definite meaning! That is why they were created and that is why they were handed down. You can't take a penny song and sing it as a scalp song....you can't take a ceremonial song and sing it as kahomni song. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR INTERPRETATION!!!!
The songs mean what they mean, so just take that, chew on it, and move on to another subject, please!!!
Lakota, Please check your PM.
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Old 02-11-2007, 08:06 PM   #36
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It was the avy..

Sorry folks! Did not mean to offend anyone.
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Old 02-11-2007, 08:18 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsuj510 View Post
It was the avy..

Sorry folks! Did not mean to offend anyone.
tsuj510, I wouldn't worry to much. We all make mistakes. You should see some of my posts. I do some good, bad and just off topic stuff that would make your head spin. The point here is that you are here. That's a good thing.

We all make mistakes and we all are here to learn. If we do a bobo, we fix it the best we can and move on.

Glad your here,
Ken
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:37 AM   #38
Ba©k Iñ ƒù££ Eƒƒek*
 
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Well why doesn't he just do himself, and the rest of us a favor and learn his OWN CULTURE AND HISTORY..People like that are the exact reason as to why I don't come on this board anymore.

I know this forum is meant for learning and sharing purposes, but not when its meant to *******ize our culture, history and language. We didn't suffer through hundreds of years, having religious groups deterring us from speaking our language, having our ceremonies and dances, which was a plan of cultural genocide to have it wrongfully taken from us all over again. I would say that its some sort of flattery of having others interested in our culture, songs and dance, but rather, its a slap in the face to have people such as that who do not even come from Indian blood to take something that is not theirs and make it their own, and not to mention Very DISRESPECTFUL

Give up the "stoic" ndn talk, you make it that much easier to pick out the hobbyists, and its also very phony..haha
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:21 AM   #39
Two by two....
 
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Originally Posted by ndn_butterfly View Post
Give up the "stoic" ndn talk, you make it that much easier to pick out the hobbyists, and its also very phony..haha
We smoke'm peace pipe.

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We smoke well together brother.

Let's add some other herbs, and make this pipe fun!
Lots and looooooooooootsa peace pipe.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:56 PM   #40
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This Thread is a classic example just why.....

Several people won't bother with Internet sites related to Powwow or Indian particulars...Actually its cheap to jump on here and ask for info.(wether your a Skin or not)..Some who may not be familar with things don't understand the protocol, or procedure for obtaining knowledge.....Then its shared and you abuse it...Basically come across as not appreciating it...Theres been enough stolen and distorted....You would think people would respect that sad fact? Now on the other hand folks get their kicks doing what they do....My bros usually look at me quite cross when I talk about this place....I'm beginning to wonder....
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