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Old 10-20-2003, 01:41 PM   #41
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We had trouble with latigo disintegrating after it got wet and the stitches breaking loose. Pig skin works better for soles and it lasts a really long time!
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Old 10-23-2003, 08:40 AM   #42
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Ok Now that you got the supplies you want together how do you make an accurate moc pattern?
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Old 10-24-2003, 03:41 PM   #43
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Gah, I came in late on this subject! Sorry.....

I've made mocs with both latigo and rawhide soles. I actually prefer the rawhide since I have bad luck ordering latigo leather. For some reason I seem to get the tough, dense latigo pieces which don't hold my stitches.

For soles, I get buffalo rawhide from a guy in Hot Springs, SD. About $12 a piece. Larry Belitz is his name. He has an online catalog of rawhide and bison products including deer braintan. Reasonable prices too. Can't remember the web address....but a search on bison products might unearth it for ya.

For the thinner awls, Crazy Crow sells them. You have to get the one with the antler handle. Not the scratch awl.

For thread to sew the soles on, I use a strong twisted thread that is used to string the heavy squash blossom necklaces on. I love this stuff but have no idea what its called or where to get more of it.

In sewing the soles on, you don't want to use knots as these irritate your feet and are often not very securely tied. Do this instead. In beginning a new thread, leave a 1" tail. Sew over the tail when you make your next few stitches. When ending a thread, just use your needle to tuck the tail back through the last few stitches. You may want to weave the tail back and forth once or twice for extra security. But I'm getting ahead of the game here..... bad girl!



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Old 12-31-2003, 04:27 PM   #44
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waiting patiently for this tutorial to continue.
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Old 01-02-2004, 01:43 AM   #45
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For all of you folks that are waiting patiently (and not so patiently) for this tutorial to continue and finish.....

Have you heard of the video produced by Full Circle Videos? They have a video on how to construct the Plains hard-sole mocs with a few variations. They cover material selection, pattern making, and construction of the actual shoes. It's a GREAT video and features some of the best moccasin makers in the country! Mike Kostelnik, who writes for Whispering Wind and has made upwards of 80 prs of mocs, appears on the video. I was able to make a well-fitting and good-looking pair of mocs with the help of this video.



For uppers, I have have good luck with a product that Crazy Crow Trading Post has carried in the past. It is a "German Tanned" buckskin. They have it in a natural and a white color. It's not quite as soft as brain-tanned, but for the difference in price, I can't see the added cost of brain-tanned. This stuff is really good.
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Old 01-02-2004, 02:46 AM   #46
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Tukisha

My apology, I have been really busy and haven't started on the pair of mocs I was going to make and take pics of for this thread. I should be back at it within the next few weeks.

C_Rock

Nice work! That video is a very good instructional aid. I do not agree with everything they tell folks to do in it, but all in all I would recommend it to folks, just as I would tell folks with average dawgs that Crazy Crows patterns can work well too. Though neither are perfect, but for a first time mocs maker any help is better than none.
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Old 01-02-2004, 02:53 AM   #47
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THX PB.....

I agree with you on the vid. I can't point out any specifics about that video that I DON'T agree with. However, it will help you to make a wearable pair of mocs 1st time out of the barrell. Like most information, you pull the things you find helpful and leave the things you don't......
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Old 01-07-2004, 10:29 PM   #48
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I like that video too. It is great for those wanting to learn to make mocs with latigo or harness leather soles. My only complaint is that there is no mention of how to work with rawhide soles. There are a couple things that have to be done differently. Maybe in the next edition.....
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Old 01-08-2004, 03:05 AM   #49
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I've never made any with rawhide soles. I'd like to try it, sometime. White Latigo has worked really well for me in the past. Not to mention I have a boat load of it at home. Some Leather tannery was selling "scraps" at a powwow I went to. These "scraps" were about 2 ft wide at their widest and were pretty long. It was the stuff they couldn't use to cut straps, I guess. It looks like the pieces that were cut off to square up the hides before they start cutting straps. It's perfectly fine to cut soles from.

Anyone need some good white Latigo for soles? I'll sell u some ;).

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Old 01-31-2004, 08:51 PM   #50
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sorry I've been kinda MIA the last few weeks . I've been beading my new moccs. My parents asked me what I needed left in my regalia and they got me a Moccisins kit from crazy crow with the latigo soles . Right now I'm finishing up beading my first mocc and i still haveone more left to go. the only thing I've found so far is that latigo sucks to work with . I know I'll get allot of crap for this but I've worked with rawhide before and latigo sucks. I've broken 2 exacto-knives and have a real nice cut on my index finger to show for it, but hey! just show's I'm doing something instead of sitting around all day, i am feeling kinda weak sooo I'll saygoood buhh*faint's from lack of blood*
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Old 01-31-2004, 11:59 PM   #51
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Buying the Crazy Crow kit was your first mistake. CCTP has some good materials, but the materials in the kits aren't usually the best. The buckskin (or cowhide) they sell you in the kits sucks. Commercial tan is HARD to bead on, to say the least.

For your next pair, I'd suggest trying out their German Tan leather. It's as close to brain-tan as you can get without paying through the nose! It's not as soft as brain-tan, but it's close enough for the money.

I've seen the latigo CCTP uses for soles, and I must admit, yes, it sucks. It's more like belt leather than what I'd consider latigo. The latigo I've used was great. It's a white color and VERY stiff. I'd say it's second only to rawhide.
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Old 02-01-2004, 11:04 AM   #52
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1. I didn't buy the kit.
2. i'm going to make another set later
3. i'm only learning , this is the best way to learn, make it using the kit then move on to make the better pair
4.By the way my mother didn't buy me commercial tanned cowhide. she got me the gold buckskin.
5. the stuff I got with the kit is really easy to bead on it's like butter.

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Old 02-01-2004, 11:59 AM   #53
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I bought kits, too when I got started. You just usually don't get as much for your money.

As for their gold buckskin being like butter.....
I used to think that.....until I did some beadwork on brain-tan. Once you go brain-tanned, you'll never go back to commercial tan! I PROMISE you!

Up until I got my hands on some german or brain-tanned, I was like, "WHY would you want to pay these outrageous prices for brain-tanned leather?!" Get a sample of their german-tanned, or some brain tanned. Try beading on it. It's SO much easier to get a needle through. I've beaded on their gold buckskin, before. I'm telling you, there's NO comparison! You'll see. Call up a place that brain tans and get a sample of their leather. You can pretty much bead almost twice as fast with better results on brain-tanned.

BTW, If you'd be interested, I'll cut you a set of white latigo soles from my stash for around $10. It's a lot better than the stuff I've gotten from CCTP.

I'm not bad-mouthing CCTP. I buy a lot of their stuff, and Rex Reddick is a good guy. It's just that some things they carry are much better than others, and there's no way to know until you get it.

A piece of advice....
Try to find some good knife-edged shears (scissors) to cut your leather with. They're stout enough and sharp enough to cut latigo, and you won't run the risk of slicing your finger. I haven't had any problems cutting leather (latigo or otherwise) with scissors. I just find it easier. X-Acto knives are nice, but one slip, and you ruin your piece or slice a finger.

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Old 02-01-2004, 06:55 PM   #54
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Talking

Pard:
okay I'll admit , I lose. I tried to sew one of the moccs and as soon as I turned it inside out most of the beadwork popped off, so that sucked , I had to got back through and sew all the little edges up agian .


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Old 02-02-2004, 09:05 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by SPAMDANCER
Pard:
okay I'll admit , I lose. I tried to sew one of the moccs and as soon as I turned it inside out most of the beadwork popped off, so that sucked , I had to got back through and sew all the little edges up agian . Rob young
HOW did the beadwork pop off?
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:34 PM   #56
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well you are'nt supposed to go all the way through the hide and sometimes if they are'nt stitched into enough of the hide, the threads will pop back through the hide and hang in one big beadwork line.
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Old 05-09-2004, 05:52 AM   #57
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Well after much searching I found this tutorial again to see if the answer to "How to fit the upper to lower" was there. I got the video on how to make mocs, but I still have trouble. Can you explain????? Maybe I can figure out what I am doing wrong.
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Old 05-09-2004, 01:38 PM   #58
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Yelloweyes

I have been trying to take photos of the rest of the process so that I can finish posting this thread. The down side has been that I am so busy getting roach orders out the door, my time for the mocs I have been working on is severely limited. I may shift from the mocs I was making for me to a couple of pair I have to make for my nieces (since my wife volunteered to make the girls a new southern cloth set each), because kids mocs are so much faster to make.

If you tell me what kinda problem you are having when sewing the upper to the sole maybe I can help.
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:08 AM   #59
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powwowbum49 thanks for the reply and I see all the great work you have done... here is the problem

I get the soles done when doing the uppers they always end up wider and longer than the soles....so how do you get the measurements for the uppers to fit. Hope this is not confusing...I usually have to do quite a bit of cutting before I can do the beading
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:55 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelloweyes
powwowbum49 thanks for the reply and I see all the great work you have done... here is the problem

I get the soles done when doing the uppers they always end up wider and longer than the soles....so how do you get the measurements for the uppers to fit. Hope this is not confusing...I usually have to do quite a bit of cutting before I can do the beading
Hi Yelloweyes,

Not sure if this will help you, but hopefully it will make some sense...

When I layout my patterns, I make a point near the front of the sole, and I mark it on the inside of the piece with a line. Then I make another point on the very back of the sole with another line. When I make the pattern for the upper, I lay a string on the outline of the sole, starting at the point in the front, all the way around until I get to the line in the back. Then I know exactly how far "around" the upper will need to be to fit the sole exactly...

One other point that makes a big difference... DON'T STRETCH THE UPPER AS YOU STITCH! I know it doesn't feel like you are stretching, but sine the upper is ususally a bit thinner/weaker than the sole, when you pull the seam tight as you stitch, the upper stretches a bit more. Not much, but at 8 stitches per incs, and probably around 12" per side, that's alot of stretch after 96 stitches!

I have heard another good idea, but I have not tried it (lazy me I guess)... Put a mark exactly every 1" along your uppers and lowers, on the inside of the mocs... While you stitch, make sure you keep these marks lined up. Then, you can make sure you are not stretching every 1", and you don't get a rude surprise when you get to the heel...

hth, Tom
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