Standardized pow wow tabulations

[Wing Walker]

having traveled lots, i would like your opinion on tabulations
point spreds etc. i have found that some pow wows tabulate, the points triple according to what place judges put you down for ie 3rd 7pts 2nd 21pts 1st 28pts (is any dancer twice as good as the next)

i think a 5 point spread is good.

what is your opinion

ties good bad (why not)
grand entry point?

spotchecks (endurance contest/luck?)

[Wojapi4Me]

It is my understanding that the point system first came into being at the United Tribes pow wow in Bismarck, ND. Does anyone have the original scoring system that they use? If so, maybe that should be the standard for all pow wows to go by.

[MissFancyChick]

seems to me... in a perfect world (rez.... A'z) this would be all good and well... but do you know exactly what youre saying? could you imagine your strong indian powwow committees all agreeing to one universal point system? its almost as hard as imagining a world wide religion... just not gonna happen.... unless its a sign of the end times...
I think we are, as people, too opinionated and head strong... they wont submit to another tribes' point system... another committee's, another person's... i just dont think this would work,,, but it sounds nice to think about... sighhhhh

[NanGrand]

Fair is Fair

1. I agree it would be nice to have some level of uniformity. How many times have you see a tie were one dancer ends up with first place, and the other dancer in the tie gets nothing.

2. I am for the 5 point spread, it gives ya a chance to catch up, we all know some judges aren't impartial.

3. Ties I love dance offs (unless 1. applies)

4. Spot checks hate them, they are always the one song your dealing with kids or goin to the O!

5. Grand entry points should be the same for every grandentry or the first one should be more ?

what do you all think?

[Wojapi4Me]

I hate spot checks as well for the above-mentioned reasons. You shouldn't be required to dance every song. Sometimes you might want to visit with people, get something to eat (don't forget there are a lot of Indians who are diabetic or hypoglycemic), or just watch a song or two.

I agree that the differences in points between the places should be such that a person does have a chance to catch up. A system of 28 - 14 - 7 doesn't really seem to allow that.

If given, I think grand entry points should be the same unless the committee advertises well in advance that bonus points will be given for the first grand entry or whatever. I know the Little Eagle, SD pow wow does this. They give 75 points for the first grand entry of the pow wow and like 25 for the rest.

[quicksilverwade]

I've tabulated for a couple of powwows and it's easier to follow the list below:

1. Grand entry 25 points.

2. Spot Checks 25 points.

3. Exhibition 25 points.

4. Rez parade 50 points.

5. Judge's 1st place vote 15 points.

6. Judge's 2nd place vote 10 points.

7. Judge's 3rd place vote 5 points.

Of course, you'd have to adjust the figures if the contest has prize monies for five places.

[sing4mebaybee]

Mad Points

I've been to pow-wows where the head dance judges will make every grand entry worth like 100pts and not tell anyone. that way if you miss a grand entry you won't be able to catch up.
There are a lot of dancers out there who 'just don't feel like it' and think that they can skip a grand entry and still place good (i know quite a few people like that). so in that sense i think that the 100pts per grand entry is a great thing. just in the case that this happens it will put that person back in their place kinda thing.

as for tie breakers or contest judging a 5 point spread should be used because there are some judges that don't know what the heck they're looking for or are trying to "hook" somen up and if only one judge is like that then the other 4-5 judges will make it even in the end.

[Nezbah]

I think they committee's should post their point systems. Because I see 1/2 these dancers who 'win' when they haven't been in all the grand entries, spot checks, exhibitions, or even miss a day. I know I teach my son to participate in all of this if he's going to be dancing contests. Then again I even make him dance the grand entries, etc at traditional powwows too. Dancing is a privelege and should be treated as such. But hey...like someone else said, its not a perfect world.....

Like also someone else said, the spot checks are always when ya hungry, have to go the bathroom, or taking care of ya kids ... I think that taking care of someone is more important than a spot check. It's kewl to try to find dancers 'off guard' but not all dancers are single, either. *S*

[kneegrow_native]

Yeah, I agree with what was said up above. Standardizing points systems more than likely will not happen. Most people have an idea of how they want to run their pow-wow and that includes the point system.

Personally, I hate spot checks. My daughter misses them sometimes because she likes to read, and I am not going to get after her for that.

In my opinion grand entry points should be uniform across the board and not worth so much that you are completely out of the running for missing one.

In my humble opinion, it is called a dance contest, not a intertribal or grand entry contest. Maybe that is why some pow-wows are starting to track who is dancing all the time and rewarding them separately.

[NanGrand]

it is still a dance contest

grand entries should count

the first grand entry should be more points (if i missed work, drove all night to make it etc why should some one show up late or even a day late and ???

but it is a dance contest not an endurance contest

perhaps the first grand entry should have points equal to 2nd place the others equal to 3rd place

also in dividing up the prize money ??? have you not been to pow wows where people are just nasty because first is 1000 and second is 600 and third is 400. why not have a more equal distribution of prize money 8 6 4 2 of simular it still totals the same just doesn't create such manipulative people.

[ABENEWA KWE]

I think they committee's should post their point systems. Because I see 1/2 these dancers who 'win' when they haven't been in all the grand entries, spot checks, exhibitions, or even miss a day. I know I teach my son to participate in all of this if he's going to be dancing contests. Then again I even make him dance the grand entries, etc at traditional powwows too. Dancing is a privelege and should be treated as such. But hey...like someone else said, its not a perfect world.....

Like also someone else said, the spot checks are always when ya hungry, have to go the bathroom, or taking care of ya kids ... I think that taking care of someone is more important than a spot check. It's kewl to try to find dancers 'off guard' but not all dancers are single, either. *S*

[Camp7Kiowa]

Why has powwowing become a test of endurance? I dont think there should be any point system, spot checks grand entry number taking~its all just a waste of time.

Just let everyone dance their contest and let the judges do the judging strictly on dancing ability. Isn't that how is was done before all the point system and other junk came into effect?

Just my thoughts!