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TKMJ Productions 01-23-2009 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injunboy (Post 1260331)
im a fake medicine man whatcha gonna do about it?? haha

Big Deal!!!!!!
I'm the keeper of the sacred drum microphone and there ain't nothin you can do about that. The sacred drum microphone was gifted from above. In otherwords, the sales person at the music store had to use a ladder to get it off the top shelf!

Top that o worthy genunine imitation real fake medicine man!!!!! :whatchuta

eyesrbrown4areason 01-23-2009 08:56 PM

:lol:

Joe's Dad 01-24-2009 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jls2009 (Post 1259883)
What makes you think i'm a wannabe?
I wouldn't say what i said if i didn't back it up. Like i said, I came here to this place to find some fellowship. I'm a full blooded navajo, Not no wannabe. I found this chat room shameful. I been to white powwows. But guess what? They're still people. What makes you better?

You got a problem with them not knowing the traditions even if they have a drop of blood or none in them?

Then get off your a$$ and teach them.
They are still people. Not ignorant dogs. They admire your ability and positions to identify. Alot of these people don't know they're identity. They didn't choose to be this way. They were born with it. It ain't their fault. Quit ragging. Powwows helps makes them their connection.


........As for exposing fake medicine men...

I owe an apology for what i did. It was not a way to express a concern by claiming to be one. Am I a medecine man? No matter what i say, none of you would beleive me. So why bother. I do apprentice. And it will take me years to be on my own. I read back on what i wrote, and felt sad. Sad, because i wrote all that out of anger. Anger i still feel. My nephew is black, and loves powwow. He gets alot of crap for looking the way he does. So please accept my apology. But i am not gonna kiss your A$$.

I come from a long line of traditional hat'aathlees'. And I shouldn't had done what i did. I'm young and eager. But that is no excuse, I know. That is all.

I'm not here to argue. Not my nature. I have a question...

Can you put a list on here of the names of white people/families that have taken you in and taught you how to be white? Have they taught you how to do their anglo dances? Did they teach you how to speak 'proper' english, not Americanized english? I wonder how many anglos looked at another anglo and said these words..."Then get off your a$$ and teach them".

Also, it's their parents...and their parent's parents...responsibility to teach a person 'who and what' they are. If this were to happen, you wouldn't be going to 'white' powwows. If the anglos were taught their ways by their fathers, you wouldn't be here defending them.


You, as 4/4 Dine, must never have had a complexion challenged person look at you condescendingly because of the color of your skin.

steelemagnolia63 01-24-2009 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1260335)
Big Deal!!!!!!
I'm the keeper of the sacred drum microphone and there ain't nothin you can do about that. The sacred drum microphone was gifted from above. In otherwords, the sales person at the music store had to use a ladder to get it off the top shelf!

Top that o worthy genunine imitation real fake medicine man!!!!! :whatchuta


:hah: and a hand descended from the heavens and brought forth the holy sacred microphone.. and the drum danced and rejoiced..... :rofl:

PappyRoach 01-24-2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injunboy (Post 1260331)
im a fake medicine man whatcha gonna do about it?? haha


Where at? Sedona?
:tounge_sm

TKMJ Productions 01-24-2009 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelemagnolia63 (Post 1260420)
:hah: and a hand descended from the heavens and brought forth the holy sacred microphone.. and the drum danced and rejoiced..... :rofl:

Kinda like that. However the best part was the the sales preson was a lady in a skirt with very nice legs. That was the real gift! Yes I looked!:wink_smil

tonopahdancer 01-28-2009 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayChe (Post 856442)
ok so are we going by skin color now? That's unfair.

And what if someone told you that their Cherokee grandmother was from Pennsylvania? Would you take the time to find out why that person's grandma was there? Or would you just dismiss it as someone making up a story because that area isn't where Cherokees are known to originate from?

thank you my greatgrand mother is on the resavation in okahoma she is full blooded Cherokee this is something i found out just recently i have watched pow wows for a few yrs now and i love watchin them now im older i have started to dance just not in a true pow wow yet becuase i want to look like my ancesters did so im gettin my regalia together berfore i try to dance in front of them i under stand were he is coming from but he should help his brothers not try to scare them away ive seen a white man and a true blood indain they both are excalet dancers

jls2009 01-28-2009 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1260403)
I'm not here to argue. Not my nature. I have a question...

Can you put a list on here of the names of white people/families that have taken you in and taught you how to be white? Have they taught you how to do their anglo dances? Did they teach you how to speak 'proper' english, not Americanized english? I wonder how many anglos looked at another anglo and said these words..."Then get off your a$$ and teach them".

Also, it's their parents...and their parent's parents...responsibility to teach a person 'who and what' they are. If this were to happen, you wouldn't be going to 'white' powwows. If the anglos were taught their ways by their fathers, you wouldn't be here defending them.


You, as 4/4 Dine, must never have had a complexion challenged person look at you condescendingly because of the color of your skin.

Yeah you got me. I never had that. It just hurt to see my family and loved ones, go through it. I was never questioned or challenged, especially by my people or others at a powwow. I am sorry.

Seeing my children (Navajos claim their nephews and neices as their own) cry. And holding them afterwards when someone says something mean, really hurts. I had a Choctaw man in Misissippi, try and take my son's (nephew) eagle fan. He didn't challenge me. But how did my son feel. We went to a powwow in Kentucky, called the trail of tears powwow. This was backin 1998. Talk about a white powwow. But we didn't care. We just danced.

We go to powwows regardless of race. I don't plan it. it just happens. We met some very great people there. People.

As for your question. Can I put names down? Would you?

But I got one. Charles, his last name. My best friend who got gunned down when i was 13 in phoenix. We were pen pals from our schools. We hung out alot when i went down there. He taught me alot. How to handle city people and life.

Taught me that there is more to life than the reservation. Watching my uncles and cousins (father's side) become alcoholics and beat their families, and my mother too, being a bad drunk (That is how she died, when I was 17), I don't remember my dad, he died when i was 5.

I learned alot of white ways from this guy. I tell you what, I support my family with my knowledge thanks to him and his parents. So yeah, They got off their a$$ and taught me.

We can learn alot from each other. But these barriers we put up, only keep us separated.

You seem to be a good man, I respect your opinions.

Not like idiots and wannabes like Papparoach. LOL.

Keep it real brother.............

n8tiveheart 01-28-2009 06:09 AM

we are all from the same tree... just different branches..every once in awhile we must climb down out of that tree and take a good look and see that we are all from that same tree.

jls2009 01-28-2009 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PappyRoach (Post 1260281)
A true HolyMan, medicine person would never feel the need to broadcast whom they are nor give others the impression even by implying they are Apprentice's. I have personal familial knowledge of a Dine' Holy man and I can tell you most assuredly he does notgo about in public let all who would listen that he is one.
If you speak true then I feel those who are teaching you need to have a long hard talk with you and inform you that TRUE "medicine people" do not go about telling people what they are. You say you find this chat room or thread shameful but I think you should see that You are behaving most shamfully by needing to stroke your ego by coming to these chatrooms and with less than adozen post come here to play medicine man. You play the loving elder yet you insult and degrade SuzzeQ4 most hastily.
Shameful ? , yes indeed..
You do nothing but show that you have no conception of what you try to imply you are

You know, I been looking at what you say. You are right, in critizing what i said. But just like i said, i apologized, But you know i ain't gonna learn if i don't screw up now and then. But i still ain't gonna kiss your a$$.

I'm very much still angry. I'm sorry. But the shame should be on you and everyone who agrees to this forum. So quit avoiding the subject.

Who are you? Sounds to me you have alot hatred. Is this what you were taught? You don't sound like a Junior Dancer. You sound like a mispaced old hasbeen, how old are you? Probably gotta rip a few to make yourself better, huh?

Guilty of something? Or coming up short of something?
Who's the wannabe?

Not me. Or any of these geat misplaced people.

Grow up, all of you wannabes.

PappyRoach 01-28-2009 06:32 PM

After reading both your latest bits of drivel I still stand behind what I say. You are far from being what you wish to claim. You still feel the need to make personal attacks, now on me, but I find what you said quite assinine, to say the least. A holyman or medicine person would NEVER stoop to the levels you have shown here. There is nothing profound or knowledgeable in what you say here. As a mater of fact you come off as one of those New Age Plastic Shamans that are so prevalent up there in Sedona , AZ.
You tout yourself on these forums as some kind of "Holy Man In Training" yet the way you go about makes me feel you are anything but. If you really are then I pity the Dine' people that they have the misfortune of having you in such a future position of responsibility.
I tell you what.... Why don't you PM me with your name that these medicine people would know you as and I will get in contact with a certain one and verify your claim. If what you say is the truth I'll make a full apology.
I can verify any info within a day or so

Josiah 01-28-2009 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jls2009 (Post 1261757)
You know, I been looking at what you say. You are right, in critizing what i said. But just like i said, i apologized, But you know i ain't gonna learn if i don't screw up now and then. But i still ain't gonna kiss your a$$.

I'm very much still angry. I'm sorry. But the shame should be on you and everyone who agrees to this forum. So quit avoiding the subject.

Who are you? Sounds to me you have alot hatred. Is this what you were taught? You don't sound like a Junior Dancer. You sound like a mispaced old hasbeen, how old are you? Probably gotta rip a few to make yourself better, huh?

Guilty of something? Or coming up short of something?
Who's the wannabe?

Not me. Or any of these geat misplaced people.

Grow up, all of you wannabes.

In Reality in the Powwow world Ndns are polite and when somebody shows up that it is obvious they dont know what they are doing I never see them stop them from Dancing!
So to lump all of us here on Pw.com into some Tag is Laughable
We dont know you from Shinola just by what you say
I lived on your rez and seen what you talk about but then again I have lived lots of places around AZ NM OK
They choose to drink that thunderbird in cameron or mexican hat or even flag

It has nothing with Tribe Race Religion
NOTHING BUT A CHOICE
Alcohol took my Father, Brother, Uncle and Cousin and many many others
But they made that choice!!!
My kinfolk that chooses not to drink live to a ripe old age and one that dont die a young and painful life usually alone because they force everybody away from them!

Debate is fine
Disagreement is Fine
Personal Attacks and Name calling is Childs like behavior
We that have been on here awhile like a different point of view and enjoy reading the words of so many different tribes across this country
Which are you?

badmaninc 01-28-2009 07:04 PM

Oh MY GOD DUDEs; this whole thread is getting a little weather worn. Let's just end it by saying, "I'm smart you're dumb, and my mom could whip up on your mom".

:hypocrite:teeth_smi

PappyRoach 01-28-2009 07:06 PM

Myob

jls2009 01-28-2009 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1261766)
In Reality in the Powwow world Ndns are polite and when somebody shows up that it is obvious they dont know what they are doing I never see them stop them from Dancing!
So to lump all of us here on Pw.com into some Tag is Laughable
We dont know you from Shinola just by what you say
I lived on your rez and seen what you talk about but then again I have lived lots of places around AZ NM OK
They choose to drink that thunderbird in cameron or mexican hat or even flag

It has nothing with Tribe Race Religion
NOTHING BUT A CHOICE
Alcohol took my Father, Brother, Uncle and Cousin and many many others
But they made that choice!!!
My kinfolk that chooses not to drink live to a ripe old age and one that dont die a young and painful life usually alone because they force everybody away from them!

Debate is fine
Disagreement is Fine
Personal Attacks and Name calling is Childs like behavior
We that have been on here awhile like a different point of view and enjoy reading the words of so many different tribes across this country
Which are you?

This goes way back. The personal attacks took off along time ago. To me and to these innocent people....

You know my Rez? I'm glad you seen what i've been through. Their choice, yes. Not mine. I didn't ask to be beaten. But this is besides the piont.

I bet you been blessed by the Yei's, for allowing these people to dance. I can see it on your picture.

My Personal Attacks? What do you think this guy is been doing...he and these people have been tearing at the very heart and purpose of who we are. Personal attacks? Call it defending......protecting.....A real person stands up for others..

I ain't here to claime what i am. I am here to stand up for these people. My people. My family. My friends. My life.

Papparoach... what's wrong? Afraid to stand to a real one?
I know about you now. I know about your circle.

Quit your ragging and growup. A real medecine man don't allow this crap. You don't know your history very well.

tsimshian59 01-28-2009 08:26 PM

you have got to be kidding!
 
I am new to this site but had to post! You have got to be kidding that there is skin color discrimination on this site. Since when do ndns think its ok to be dicriminated against because of the color of your skin? Funny how you dont think pow wows are for the whites but who do you think are the ones there spending their money on ndn made things? I think it should be an honor that another race of people think so much of your race as to want to be part of it! As a people that has known discrimination shouldnt we be better than that? Or have you forgotten who we are as a people? Unreal!

Josiah 01-28-2009 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsimshian59 (Post 1261784)
I am new to this site but had to post! You have got to be kidding that there is skin color discrimination on this site. Since when do ndns think its ok to be dicriminated against because of the color of your skin? Funny how you dont think pow wows are for the whites but who do you think are the ones there spending their money on ndn made things? I think it should be an honor that another race of people think so much of your race as to want to be part of it! As a people that has known discrimination shouldnt we be better than that? Or have you forgotten who we are as a people? Unreal!

Then dont fall in the same trap and judge a whole site by one thread!!!
There THOUSANDS of Threads on here good information and bad information and everything in between
So read alot more
Then Read some more
I have been on here a short 4 years
I can honestly say I am still reading...

SuzzeQ4 01-28-2009 08:44 PM

actually there are a number of teachers, grandmothers, holy men etc who have spoken out against the fake medicine men. Not in the way we do here, but here we are debating...totally different.

The problem with the fakes is the harm they can cause. Do i care if a bunch of white people are following a fake...not as long sa they are leaving me alone 'sides wannabe shows up at some powwows I gi to they will not be allowed to register as a dancer.

My problem with the fakes, where they hurt us is when those of our people (actual NDN's) are looking for thier culture they can be taken in by these types.

Problem with wannabes...well they are annoying and insulting but that could be ignored except they have caused a problem; if their were no wannabes we wouldn't look at those of our people who are lighter skined and wonder if they are wannabes cause that wouldn't exist but they do, we do this and those who are light skined NDN's have to deal with it, which in my life has resulted in a daughter who thinks she is unattractive cause she looks like her white grandpa. and that makes me real angry!

So yeah I will rant rave and be rude...but I'm not an elder, grandmother or holy man...(don't even claim to be)...
just a regular NDN expressing how she feels....and ya know that is somethin else that ticks me off...all those new agers who expect us to be peaceful hug the world brown skinned hippies. We're not. Our history proves we're not. We stand up for ourselves and our people. We speak up when we disagree or disapprove. So I am sick of the "how dare you be disagreable...thats not traditional" line, cause its a load of BS.

jls2009 01-28-2009 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsimshian59 (Post 1261784)
I am new to this site but had to post! You have got to be kidding that there is skin color discrimination on this site. Since when do ndns think its ok to be dicriminated against because of the color of your skin? Funny how you dont think pow wows are for the whites but who do you think are the ones there spending their money on ndn made things? I think it should be an honor that another race of people think so much of your race as to want to be part of it! As a people that has known discrimination shouldnt we be better than that? Or have you forgotten who we are as a people? Unreal!

You see this..!!!! All of you so called Natives who find Powwows only for full bloods.

It don't matter who you are or where you come from.... You all deserve to dance.

Our time is gone, Our bloods are thinning within each other. How many traditions have been lost. Yeah their parents, should of taught them. But that still ain't their fault. ....What if the shoe was on the other foot? Where would you stand? I'll tell you where......... Outside dreaming to be a part of this. But jerks like all of you prejudice ones, will keep you out.

Josiah 01-28-2009 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1261788)
actually there are a number of teachers, grandmothers, holy men etc who have spoken out against the fake medicine men. Not in the way we do here, but here we are debating...totally different.

The problem with the fakes is the harm they can cause. Do i care if a bunch of white people are following a fake...not as long sa they are leaving me alone 'sides wannabe shows up at some powwows I gi to they will not be allowed to register as a dancer.

My problem with the fakes, where they hurt us is when those of our people (actual NDN's) are looking for thier culture they can be taken in by these types.

Problem with wannabes...well they are annoying and insulting but that could be ignored except they have caused a problem; if their were no wannabes we wouldn't look at those of our people who are lighter skined and wonder if they are wannabes cause that wouldn't exist but they do, we do this and those who are light skined NDN's have to deal with it, which in my life has resulted in a daughter who thinks she is unattractive cause she looks like her white grandpa. and that makes me real angry!

So yeah I will rant rave and be rude...but I'm not an elder, grandmother or holy man...(don't even claim to be)...
just a regular NDN expressing how she feels....and ya know that is somethin else that ticks me off...all those new agers who expect us to be peaceful hug the world brown skinned hippies. We're not. Our history proves we're not. We stand up for ourselves and our people. We speak up when we disagree or disapprove. So I am sick of the "how dare you be disagreable...thats not traditional" line, cause its a load of BS.

Dang

She said it all

Thats all I have to say...


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