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jls2009 01-28-2009 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1261791)
Dang

She said it all

Thats all I have to say...



I can see i'm fighting ghosts here. (Chiidi' di'giis) So i'm out. But, I only want what's right. Whatever you think it is, I pray only for our lost brothers and sisters.

So take care, all of you. Powwow til you drop. EEehaaaa!!!!

SuzzeQ4 01-28-2009 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jls2009 (Post 1261790)
You see this..!!!! All of you so called Natives who find Powwows only for full bloods.

It don't matter who you are or where you come from.... You all deserve to dance.

Our time is gone, Our bloods are thinning within each other. How many traditions have been lost. Yeah their parents, should of taught them. But that still ain't their fault. ....What if the shoe was on the other foot? Where would you stand? I'll tell you where......... Outside dreaming to be a part of this. But jerks like all of you prejudice ones, will keep you out.

I don't remember anyone saying powwows (or anything else) was only for full bloods. If I am wrong find the quote.

Holding the opinion that someone who has only distant Native ancestry (the gg grand parent types) is not NDN is entirely different.

Native blood in some families is thinning because those families chose to marry outside of their culture and often then followed their spouses mainstream ways, their children make the same choice so on and so forth. However many families don't follow this pattern. Thats why there are still those who are full, half or a quarter, familes who qualify for status, live on the res etc.

This is a lame argument. And one that you have made up. Your grasping at straws. With all that has been appropriated by white people (and not just thier forefathers cause land is still be taken) you would think that our culture would be the one thing that couldn't be taken...the one thing we have that is still ours...is that really so much to ask for?

Why is it our responsibility to fill the gaps of those whose culture doesn't seem "cool enough" right now?

jls2009 01-28-2009 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1261804)
I don't remember anyone saying powwows (or anything else) was only for full bloods. If I am wrong find the quote.

Holding the opinion that someone who has only distant Native ancestry (the gg grand parent types) is not NDN is entirely different.

Native blood in some families is thinning because those families chose to marry outside of their culture and often then followed their spouses mainstream ways, their children make the same choice so on and so forth. However many families don't follow this pattern. Thats why there are still those who are full, half or a quarter, familes who qualify for status, live o
This is a lame argument. And one that you have made up. Your grasping at straws. With all that has been appropriated by white people (and not just thier forefathers cause land is still be taken) you would think that our culture would be the one thing that couldn't be taken...the one thing we have that is still ours...is that really so much to ask for?

Why is it our responsibility to fill the gaps of those whose culture doesn't seem "cool enough" right now?


Hee Heeee heee, Now i gotta pee. :hysterica:hysterica (that's cool). Wow. This is funny.

Haa Ha Ha. You speak of shallow and no bloods, not belonging in your arena, don't you. Nothing's changed on your words, from what I see.

A good man just wrote me a messge. So thank you my friend, you restored my faith in this place.

But i'm out, Dance till you drop. EEehaaaa!!!!

shadowoman 01-29-2009 07:54 AM

abashu i am shadowoman's daughter_-asking for advice from elder's please --when my father was alive(he was white)I was not allowed to follow my mother's way's ndn( she's 1/2 breed) now i am learning fancy shawl dance from elder dancer who adopted me(kind of-- she's auntie)proplem we just moved from N.Y to michigan I DO NOT WANT TO BE LAUGHED AT!!!!i WANT TO DO COMPITITION auntie said i should that i dance good and should give it a try???mom has been beading lots on new regalia--- question--do i use fringe or ribbon on my new shawl do not want to do it wrong to be laughed at or called wannabe--It means to much to me PLEASE HELP p.s it hurts to be told i do not look indian enough!!!! all my uncles and auntie have black hair but not my mom or me??

jls2009 01-29-2009 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1261839)
abashu i am shadowoman's daughter_-asking for advice from elder's please --when my father was alive(he was white)I was not allowed to follow my mother's way's ndn( she's 1/2 breed) now i am learning fancy shawl dance from elder dancer who adopted me(kind of-- she's auntie)proplem we just moved from N.Y to michigan I DO NOT WANT TO BE LAUGHED AT!!!!i WANT TO DO COMPITITION auntie said i should that i dance good and should give it a try???mom has been beading lots on new regalia--- question--do i use fringe or ribbon on my new shawl do not want to do it wrong to be laughed at or called wannabe--It means to much to me PLEASE HELP p.s it hurts to be told i do not look indian enough!!!! all my uncles and auntie have black hair but not my mom or me??

Anybody want that new car? or some good, luck they always wanted...................

Becareful, what you say. This will come back and bite your a$$...... Here's your chance to help someone.

SuzzeQ4 01-29-2009 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1261839)
abashu i am shadowoman's daughter_-asking for advice from elder's please --when my father was alive(he was white)I was not allowed to follow my mother's way's ndn( she's 1/2 breed) now i am learning fancy shawl dance from elder dancer who adopted me(kind of-- she's auntie)proplem we just moved from N.Y to michigan I DO NOT WANT TO BE LAUGHED AT!!!!i WANT TO DO COMPITITION auntie said i should that i dance good and should give it a try???mom has been beading lots on new regalia--- question--do i use fringe or ribbon on my new shawl do not want to do it wrong to be laughed at or called wannabe--It means to much to me PLEASE HELP p.s it hurts to be told i do not look indian enough!!!! all my uncles and auntie have black hair but not my mom or me??

You 1/4? then your NDN no matter what you look like, listen to your Auntie, she loves you and wouldn't want you laughed at either. Also post for assistence in the fancy shawl forum...you don't need advice from this thread but the fancy shawl one will be of assistance.

nighthawk58 01-29-2009 11:20 AM

And then you have an idiot like me who is so white on the outside it is laughable. Yea, I have Cherokee blood, but can you tell? And I was raised by a full blood, and on the pow wow circuit, the only Father I have ever known. Yet, at fifty, I do not dance, nor do I feel like I belong. To the whites, I was a 'Rez boy' on the reservation, I was 'Custer'. Some days it does not pay to get out of bed. So then, what is the color of my heart? Well, you see me here.

nighthawk58 01-29-2009 11:24 AM

I am now wondering if it is truely the color of our skin or the color of our heart that matters. I do not know.I know only how I feel.

shadowoman 01-29-2009 11:57 AM

I got into fight at school over history lesson on old west!! Why is it a victory if white solders won a battle? But a massicure if our people won???can any one answer this to me --i'm a kid but want to know with respect shaddowoman's kid

ojibwecommodbod 01-29-2009 01:32 PM

Miigwech!
 
I want to thank Suzze for her imput and all the other people who can relate to how I feel. For all the defensive mixed bloods, I repeat, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT WANNABES! NOT MIXED BLOODS! Ask yourself, "Am I a wannabe?" If the answer is no, this isn't about you. If you still take offense, ask yourself the question again.

I thank everybody for their views. The point of this thread is to show how not all of us accept wannabes into our ways. Though you might know many indians that say its ok (Mr. Medicine man), and make you feel accepted, let it be known that we all do not feel the same way!

If you are legitimately native and know it, what do you care how some other disgruntled natives feel about wannabes? If you accept them, more power to your hang around the fort aZZ! If you haven't realized by now, we dont all agree!

SuzzeQ4 01-29-2009 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojibwecommodbod (Post 1261985)
I want to thank Suzze for her imput and all the other people who can relate to how I feel. For all the defensive mixed bloods, I repeat, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT WANNABES! NOT MIXED BLOODS! Ask yourself, "Am I a wannabe?" If the answer is no, this isn't about you. If you still take offense, ask yourself the question again.

I thank everybody for their views. The point of this thread is to show how not all of us accept wannabes into our ways. Though you might know many indians that say its ok (Mr. Medicine man), and make you feel accepted, let it be known that we all do not feel the same way!

If you are legitimately native and know it, what do you care how some other disgruntled natives feel about wannabes? If you accept them, more power to your hang around the fort aZZ! If you haven't realized by now, we dont all agree!

thanks

nighthawk58 01-29-2009 03:31 PM

Thank you

captain 01-29-2009 03:54 PM

WOW! This thread is an interesting piece....to say the least. You know I've always been of the thought that the circle, be it pow-wow, rounddance, etc. is meant for all people. It was a gift from the Creator to all First Nations people, who in turn have, through their nature, shared and taught others the beauty of said circle. It is a very small part of educating and, having others accept our beautiful culture. How many of the individuals that speak against denying that opportunity to others, on this forum, have taken the opportunity to join in dances and song (eg. rock n' roll, rap dancing and singing, country music singing and dancing, reggae, disco (long time ago, hee hee, etc)) and were told by the people whose culture that particular genre' arose from. that they could not?
You see , I'm of the thought proccess that if we do not allow our dances to expand and evolve, these practices will not be around for future generations to enjoy, like we do. I know, I know, "Tradition"! Words that are thrown around rather loosely in today's Indian world. Just like the term "Elder". We all get old, but only a few achieve elder status. My late father told me a long time ago that once the mighty dollar was involved in any type of "traditional practice", there was NO such thing as "tradition" within that event. As far back as I can remember, the mighty dollar has been a part of the pow-wow circle. To be quite honest, I am quite excited that the white people, latinos, orientals, African Americans, etc. are taking an interest in our song and dance. It can only mean that, the opportunities for the next generation will be more immense. Like taking our music to showcase to the rest of the world, like say the Grammy Awards. Hey wait, thats already happening because we are educating and sharing our song and dance with others. What next? Maybe stage performances, like say rock concerts with our musicians delivering heart rendering performances. Oh wait, that's also happening now. So you see, by allowing others into the circle and sharing with them, we are only opening bigger doors that lead to greater opportunity for our future generations.

PS. Before anyone goes off on a tangent about what I have shared, I should let you know that I speak, read and write my traditional language. I have also been honored to be a part of a circle for all my life that does not shun others, but instead accepts others.

SpanishSteel 01-29-2009 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1261930)
I got into fight at school over history lesson on old west!! Why is it a victory if white solders won a battle? But a massicure if our people won???can any one answer this to me --i'm a kid but want to know with respect shaddowoman's kid

Hi shadowoman's-kid! I'm sorry you got into a fight at school about the Old West. I'm a white lady who is attending powwows with my best friend, who is researching her Cherokee heritage. Particularly because I am not Indian, I do my best to be respectful, learn etiquette and participate as much as I can. I'm sorry that someone may think I should be lumped in with the "we paid a lot of money to a medicine man to be tribal" whites -- most of us are not that stupid, I hope!

Anyway, to answer your question is very simple, and it's not just whites in the Old West who have done this:

"History is recorded by the winners."

Unfortunately there are many cultures and peoples who have warred or just been plain bad to one another and will cry "victory" or "massacre" based on their particular outcome.

As far as whites participating in Powwows, I have this to say: I do have my own heritage (Scottish/Finnish). If an Indian came to me and said he wanted to participate in Highland Games, and wanted to wear a kilt (only guys with good legs, aye!) I'd say OK by me. We might have to get creative as to what tartan, but if I knew you well enough to help you do this, I would consider you a member of my family anyway, and you would wear my clan's. And yeah, you'd stand out as obviously 'not Scottish', but if you did it as right as you could, got a reputation of being respectful and genuinely interested and competed well, that would be OK. Yeah you might be known as 'that Indian guy at HG', and yeah some big Scottish guys might be upset that you're encroaching on another culture, but it's how you act and if you 'walk the talk' that counts.

BTW the Scots very much share history of being treated horrifically by another group of people (forced to give up land, etc.) with whom they share the same land, so don't think the above comparison is so far-fetched. And I am in NO way intending to detract from the American Indian experience by stating this. Just comparing.

Anyway, I have been to four powwows now, have taken a lot of time to learn etiquette FIRST, and NEVER do something without asking permission and double-checking to make sure it's OK. I love going into Intertribal (which we were scared and sure of it was OK even after we were assured it was), and the feeling at even the big competition powwows. Nobody has been exclusionary. But then my friend is just now starting to think about regalia. If she does decide to make an outfit, rest assured she will have researched only her own heritage, and not borrowed 'just what looks pretty' from everyone else's.

Not all sycamores are like that. Some of us actually DO want to learn and participate, and DON'T want to insult.

Finally, as to white people dancing, the best thing I can offer is a wonderful line from the film "Strictly Ballroom":

"You can dance any steps you want...doesn't mean you'll WIN!"

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2009 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain (Post 1262066)
PS. Before anyone goes off on a tangent about what I have shared, I should let you know that I speak, read and write my traditional language. I have also been honored to be a part of a circle for all my life that does not shun others, but instead accepts others.

OK Capn, What ever ya say! I can do mine too......


So.......... If a white guy comes into our circle to dance, I have no problem with it. The problem I have is the white guy who claims he is NDN and has mish mosh regulia that has no indication to the tribe he claims. Just slaped together with junk from the vendors or from ebay. No blood, no history, no nothin. We see it all the time.

They must be ashamed of who they are if they want to try to claim another family or race. You can't run from your past!

The white man I respect in our circle is the white man who claims he is a white man and dresses properly. I don't even mind if he dresses in period clothing. Be proud of who you are!:thumbsup:

shadowoman 01-29-2009 05:12 PM

thank you- my dad was scott so we went to highland games too-- FAT MEN SHOULD NOT EVER WEAR KILTSS AYE I'm a jr dancer and am learning and studying and asking lots of questions from elders (I think maybe they get sick of questions ) auntie says only stupid question is one not asked !!!!!!!it's hard being mixed race :lol: :laughing:

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2009 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1262094)
it's hard being mixed race :lol: :laughing:


Not really. Just get naked, and look in the mirror. The parts you like best are NDN!:wink_smil

tsimshian59 01-29-2009 06:44 PM

I didn't say the WHOLE site! I said I can't believe there is discrimination on THIS site!

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2009 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsimshian59 (Post 1262126)
I didn't say the WHOLE site! I said I can't believe there is discrimination on THIS site!

What can we say? There seems to be some discrimination on every forum on the internet in some way or form.

When you find the perfect discrimination free forum, let us know.

nighthawk58 01-29-2009 08:56 PM

I believe we ALL learn by sharing. So, it is good to continue sharing, right?


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