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tsimshian59 01-29-2009 09:50 PM

I am wondering how much blood do you think in general one needs to be thought of as ndn? Or is it more that you know your ancesters and your culture? Or is it more that you came from a reservation? Exactly how is it determined?
I would love to hear opinions!

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2009 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsimshian59 (Post 1262140)
I am wondering how much blood do you think in general one needs to be thought of as ndn? Or is it more that you know your ancesters and your culture? Or is it more that you came from a reservation? Exactly how is it determined?
I would love to hear opinions!

It's all tribal dependent. You go on what your tribal rules state. If the tribe you claim states 1/4 ndn, and you only have 1/8, You ain't got enough to be enroled.

I feel that you do not need to be enroled but have enough blood to satisfy your tribes requirments.

Josiah 01-29-2009 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsimshian59 (Post 1262140)
I am wondering how much blood do you think in general one needs to be thought of as ndn? Or is it more that you know your ancesters and your culture? Or is it more that you came from a reservation? Exactly how is it determined?
I would love to hear opinions!

There has been literally hundreds of pages written about that very subject here on Powwows.com

Here is the short answer:
Blood Quatum by itself dont mean nothing, without the culture and teachings of thousands of years behind it.

A CDIB does not make you NDN, it just means that you have the blood line that the Department of Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs and whatever agency that administers your tribal group has determined

I have kinfolk that are fullblood that has no desire to follow the old traditions and think of themselves as Americans rather than what they are.

TKMJ Productions 01-29-2009 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1262145)
There has been literally hundreds of pages written about that very subject here on Powwows.com

Here is the short answer:
Blood Quatum by itself dont mean nothing, without the culture and teachings of thousands of years behind it.

A CDIB does not make you NDN, it just means that you have the blood line that the Department of Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs and whatever agency that administers your tribal group has determined

I have kinfolk that are fullblood that has no desire to follow the old traditions and think of themselves as Americans rather than what they are.

Nope!
Blood makes you NDN,
Desire and education makes you culturally intact.

As you, I know many who do not particapate or care but are still of NDN blood. But they are infact NDN. They come from the blood of our ancestors. If you are polish and refuse to polka or participate in cultural events, does that make you not polish?

If we truely followed our past culture, we would live in Tipis, caves, and longhouses. And we would not be here on the forum. This forum is NOT traditional!

Gotta add something.

If you are white or of another race and adopted by an NDN family, raised by that family, are culturally intact with our ways and accepted by the tribe, then you are NDN by adoption.

SuzzeQ4 01-29-2009 11:48 PM

Ok, so much to say...

tkmj well said on it all. Best lookin parts are definatly NDN and I'm also cool with the white guy who is happy to be white and comes to the circle (when invited) as a white guy. It's just more respectful. Also agree with your definition of NDN

spanish steel good point about other cultures (even white cultures like the Scots and the Irish) sharing similar histories.

night hawk yep sharing is good, but there is a fine line between sharing and taking, like wise between sharing and giving away.

shadowman's kid Think your going to do just fine. Your willingness to listen to your Auntie and look for all the best possible info will keep you safe from the fakes and wannabes who would bestow you with titles and names just so they can have another follower...you will meet these people but my intuition is that you will see them for who they are, 'sides you got family to follow.

captain, it's your turn and I don't agree...
Non-NDN's are welcome into the circle, at times, with respect. If we were exclusive powwows wouldn't be public and they wouldn't have inter-tribals. Sharing who we are doesn't mean giving it all a way. White people come...just be respectful...don't play dress up NDN ...and be thankful for what we do share instead of b*tching that we're not handing you every single thing we have and know.

There is no such thing as no money (anymore)...unless you have a free way I can get to the next powwow, or that the powwow committee can get port a potties, water and many other essentials. I have yet to recieve money that would do more then cover my gas (usually not enough to cover my gas). As for competition powwows (haven't done then but) it is my understanging that if a dancer doesn't place they don't have $ so I have never understood the "just for money" argument there. Paying someone to do a ceremony or what ever is totally different then covering their expenses (or helping with their expences) so that they can come and do what you ask for.

I think the rock, rap, disco argument is week. Asking if we go dress up and dance at the Chinese or Caribbean center or go to square dances would have been a better point...but since we all would have said no I guess you skipped it to compare apples and oranges (no pun inteneded). If I were to ask a white person about their traditional culture they would tell be about historical clothing and dances (the previous mentioned highland games), they would not however tell me that dorky clothes and Celine Dion was a deeply special part of their culture contributing to their sense of cultural identity..

Josiah 01-30-2009 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1262147)
Nope!
Blood makes you NDN,
Desire and education makes you culturally intact.

As you, I know many who do not particapate or care but are still of NDN blood. But they are infact NDN. They come from the blood of our ancestors. If you are polish and refuse to polka or participate in cultural events, does that make you not polish?

If we truely followed our past culture, we would live in Tipis, caves, and longhouses. And we would not be here on the forum. This forum is NOT traditional!

Gotta add something.

If you are white or of another race and adopted by an NDN family, raised by that family, are culturally intact with our ways and accepted by the tribe, then you are NDN by adoption.


I agree Sort of... Not what I was saying though
Seperate the two
and it has nothing to do with Powwows
Cause if you powwow dont make you NDN either

Blood and Culture
More specifically Tribal Culture
Both make you Ndn
Cant be one without the other

Joe's Dad 01-30-2009 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nighthawk58 (Post 1261923)
I am now wondering if it is truely the color of our skin or the color of our heart that matters. I do not know.I know only how I feel.


Color of your skin, not the color of your heart plays a big part.

Have my skin color and walk in a complexion challenged anglo world and you'll feel the wrath you are questioning now.

Joe's Dad 01-30-2009 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsimshian59 (Post 1262126)
I didn't say the WHOLE site! I said I can't believe there is discrimination on THIS site!

Well you can believe!

Fat Albert 01-30-2009 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1262155)
and it has nothing to do with Powwows
Cause if you powwow dont make you NDN either

How true! Josiah, you make a fine point!

SuzzeQ4 01-30-2009 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1262156)
Color of your skin, not the color of your heart plays a big part.

Have my skin color and walk in a complexion challenged anglo world and you'll feel the wrath you are questioning now.

Although when I was in high school I was beat into a coma by 6 skinheads from school cause I wasn't as dark as the other NDN's. They also beat up a white girl for dating one of my friends (who was NDN). So although being light skin, or even medium coloured may generally get you through day to day with out being noticed by white people, it doesn't always mean you have escaped the racism.

nighthawk58 01-30-2009 10:04 AM

All
 
I see. Points well taken.

shadowoman 01-30-2009 10:06 AM

sure does't in 1967 I was in service [Army) stationed in San Antonio ---being from eastern states I was not exposted to racism as much (it was towards blacks -africain americans back then)I was thrown out of resterant the sign said "NO DOGS BLACKS OR INJUNS"I was in my army get-up (you know lovely green)!!my name tag said WINTERKORN some things never change "PROUD TO BE NDN" SHADOWOMAN

TKMJ Productions 01-30-2009 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1262155)
Blood and Culture
More specifically Tribal Culture
Both make you Ndn
Cant be one without the other

WRONG ANSWER! Go back to GO and don't collect $200.

Anyone can be taught the culture. More specifically Tribal culture. That doesn't make you even part NDN. It only makes you educated to the culture.

The only thing that makes you NDN is the blood. You as a person can accept or deny the culture. There is no law that states that you must accept the culture to stay being an NDN. However the blood doesn't lie.

You can reject the culture but you can't reject the blood.

And NO, if a white man gets a blood transfusion and the only blood available is from a NDN, It doesn't make the white man a NDN. It only makes his life saved by NDN blood.

shadowoman 01-30-2009 10:18 AM

what

steelemagnolia63 01-30-2009 10:36 AM

Racism is alive and thriving in our country. Racism against Native Americans is still out there the only difference is our people are no longer thnking that the "white man" is going to be fair with us, and honor anything.

I like to play a good drum on the stereo in the mornings when I am starting my mornings. My neighbors don't appreicate good drumming and they like to yell things about fake NDNs and so on. I was told just the other day by one of them that I can't be a Indian because my skin is light. I have the very fair skin of my Irish and Scot bloodline. I didn't get the darker creamy tan skin color that my 2 brothers did. I have the dark hair and eyes, they have lighter brown hair and hazel eyes. We are 7/16th Cherokee. My kids are a bit less than 1/4, 2 blondes with blue eyes and on burnette with dark brown eyes 2 fair one medium. I try to explain that native Americans come in all skin colors, eye colors and hair colors but most people still think that we have to look like the ones on TV or in the movies....Stereotype, Profiling, uninformed or whatever you want to call it. It still reeks or rasicsm.

It's not our skin color that makes us who we are. It's MY Birthright!!! I was lucky enough to be born with Native American blood in my veins. From both my maternal and paternal bloodlines. Lucky enough to have the written and oral family history to provide the documentation of that blood line. That doesn't mean that my 7/16ths makes a better ndn that a person that has only 1/8 or 1/16, or that I am not as good a one as someone that is a full blood. It just means that I am a Native American just like they are.

The rest of me is Irish and Scot. My Irish bloodline has been traced back to the for well over 1500 years, that doesn't make me a better Irish person than someone who is only 1/8 Irish. It makes me have Irish blood from a very old Irish family. It also means that my Dad's aunt had way to much time on her hands and way to much money to spend on getting all this documentation together. It is also my brithright. As is my Scot blood taced back to the highlands... None of this makes me a princess darn it!!!! :))
Another aunt has all these charts on every generation and what fraction each one of us is. She's a bit anal about it. She will even tell anyone that asks and will listen what we'd have to do to "breed the white out".....

All of my ancestors faced some sort racial punishment for just being born who they were born. I am a proud Native American who has the blood of the Irish and the Scots blended in. I just made a choice to lead the life of a human being, and follow the Native American path. My brothers will just tell you that they are Native American, Irish and Scot and walk off and leave you standing there.

shadowoman 01-30-2009 11:09 AM

me tooo all my brothers and sisters are dark -hair skin- me I'm the white sheep of the family now my kid gets told you don't look injun!!she wants to die her hair before pow wow season cuz last year a girl told her she didn't place because she looked to white[ not my kid the other one] I TOLD HER JUST BE YOU PROUD OF WHO YOU ARE !!!!!!!!DO YOUR BEST - DANCE YOUR HEART OUT -LIKE NO ONE IS WATCHING BUT THE GREAT ONE! IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE --IT IS WHO YOU ARE- IN YOUR HEART ! WHAT YOU GIVE BACK TO OTHERS AND THE HONOR YOUR GIVE TO THE ELDERS AND OTHERS THAT MAKES YOU YOU ! PROUD TO BE A NATIVE AMERICAN !!!!:ANGEL:

SuzzeQ4 01-30-2009 11:26 AM

I'm the light sheep in the family too, can't say the white sheep cause I don't even know how to describe my skin tone...VERY olive I guess...doesn't photograph well. Some pics I look white, some I don't. White people are never sure what I am. Some assume white, most realize I am mixed they are just not sure with what. I've been asked if I was everything from party chinese to palistian.

I think I'd make a good spy:cool1: Blend in where ever I go.:lol:

But people definitely get annoyed when they cannot easily or accurately catagorize you. Which speaks to a level of racism that is silent but definitely there.

Josiah 01-30-2009 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1262196)
WRONG ANSWER! Go back to GO and don't collect $200.

Anyone can be taught the culture. More specifically Tribal culture. That doesn't make you even part NDN. It only makes you educated to the culture.

The only thing that makes you NDN is the blood. You as a person can accept or deny the culture. There is no law that states that you must accept the culture to stay being an NDN. However the blood doesn't lie.

You can reject the culture but you can't reject the blood.

And NO, if a white man gets a blood transfusion and the only blood available is from a NDN, It doesn't make the white man a NDN. It only makes his life saved by NDN blood.

LOL
OK your right
I am wrong

Still have my opinion now dont I?

HAve a good day
End of discussion

TKMJ Productions 01-30-2009 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1262246)
I'm the light sheep in the family too,

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelemagnolia63 (Post 1262210)
I was told just the other day by one of them that I can't be a Indian because my skin is light. I have the very fair skin of my Irish and Scot bloodline. I didn't get the darker creamy tan skin color that my 2 brothers did. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1262235)
me tooo all my brothers and sisters are dark -hair skin- me I'm the white sheep of the family now my kid gets told you don't look injun!!


Well girls..... You gotta face the facts just like my mom told me why I was younger. I'm the lightest skin kid in the family.

All of our moms ran out of that color before we were born!:tounge_sm

So what does a real NDN look like? :wink_smil

shadowoman 01-30-2009 12:17 PM

:laughing: good one --looking for one dog sled with team please include good looking driver!!:lol:tooooooooooo much snow!!!!!!!!! need spring and pow wow's fry bread


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