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TKMJ Productions 01-30-2009 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1262260)
LOL
OK your right
I am wrong

Still have my opinion now dont I?

HAve a good day
End of discussion

You sure do have your oponion. And hopefully I have changed it. Just remember to keep teaching the culture. That was never really in question.

Have a great day with many more to follow!:teeth_smi

TKMJ Productions 01-30-2009 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1262269)
:laughing: good one --looking for one dog sled with team please include good looking driver!!:lol:tooooooooooo much snow!!!!!!!!! need spring and pow wow's fry bread

Sorry Shadowoman, I'm fresh out of dog sled teams. However I do have a new 4X4 pickup truck. Dodge, 4 doors, red like us, CD player, air conditioning, holds plenty of powwow gear in the back. Very comfortable! I cut through the snow in Ohio this week like it was a spring day. Will that do? To see the truck look in the uper left hand corner of my picture.

I also believe that you once posted your location as Ohio and then removed it. I could be there in a matter of hours rather then days or weeks. :eek:

shadowoman 01-30-2009 12:41 PM

nope I'm in Michigan like truck

Josiah 01-30-2009 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1262271)
You sure do have your oponion. And hopefully I have changed it. Just remember to keep teaching the culture. That was never really in question.

Have a great day with many more to follow!:teeth_smi

Nope not one bit

Ok
By your definition born a Ndn always a Ndn
Only Blood counts nothing more

I say

That you need to have both to be Ndn
Both Culture and Blood
The culture is taught to you by the Elders starting with Parents and later as you grow up by others in your tribe


Say a young boy was adopted at birth and raised as a catholic in a strict way
Grew up only knowing that he was catholic and eventually went into a Seminary and became a priest

When he was 25 his parents sit him down and say:
Son you are adopted
We dont know who your parents are
but we know you are Full Blood Ndn
Here are the papers


By my definition
He is not Ndn
But a Catholic Priest that has Ndn Heritage
He knows nothing of his culture
He knows none of his Kinfolks
He has been cut off from that
And Has a wonderful family and life
HE HAS BEEN ASSIMILATED


By your definition he is NDN
period


Hell for that matter I could take a baby that was from any country in the world and raise him in the ndn world
He could look very dark skinned and nobody would know the difference
But he is not Ndn
Merely ADOPTED
He would not know any different
But on paper he would be Peruvian
And who is to say if he wanted to go back to Peru and get in touch with his kinfolk to learn his culture who is to say no!

That is my point in all this
You must be Both
It cant be any other way
I am not talking skin color because it has been well documented that North American Tribes are as diverse in color and any other race.

Blood and Culture makes you Ndn

TKMJ Productions 01-30-2009 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowoman (Post 1262280)
nope I'm in Michigan like truck

Got it!

That just means that I gotta go west on I 80 and then turn left at the border at the end of the lake.

Still just a matter of hours.

Should I bring my passport to cross the state border?:thinking:

Anyhoo..... If you are too busy this weekend, I understand. But you gotta make time for the powwow in Tecsumch this spring. Great powwow, lots to do, and I run the sound system there. Great Frybread too!:wink_smil

TKMJ Productions 01-30-2009 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1262282)

By your definition he is NDN
period


Correct! It is up to that man (the catholic priest) to accept or reject his true culture but he is still NDN no matter how he feels!

Now about your baby from Peru. If he was adopted by the tribe with the proper legal status. He becomes NDN and can accept or reject his adoption status. It is up to that person to accept or reject his position and situation. If he goes back to Peru to seek his birth culture, that's fine too.

For someone who wanted to end this discussion, your post was quite large.

My feelings are the same as what our tribal laws state. All tribes go by blood not culture. You will have a better chance of changing the tribes minds then mine. When their positions change, then so will mine.

Josiah 01-30-2009 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1262301)
Correct! It is up to that man (the catholic priest) to accept or reject his true culture but he is still NDN no matter how he feels!

Now about your baby from Peru. If he was adopted by the tribe with the proper legal status. He becomes NDN and can accept or reject his adoption status. It is up to that person to accept or reject his position and situation. If he goes back to Peru to seek his birth culture, that's fine too.

For someone who wanted to end this discussion, your post was quite large.

My feelings are the same as what our tribal laws state. All tribes go by blood not culture. You will have a better chance of changing the tribes minds then mine. When their positions change, then so will mine.

Naw I just thought of more to say....


I am well aware what the Tribes go by, since I am enrolled in one...

I am saying that you have to both!
You cant have one without the other
That is the point in all this
I am also aware that I cant change your mind in this
But to say that my opinion is WRONG
Well then we will continue to debate that fine point
By the way what is your enrollment?
All that can enroll should enroll and teach there kids what it means to enroll
Get involved with the Tribe

Josiah 01-30-2009 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1262301)
Correct! It is up to that man (the catholic priest) to accept or reject his true culture but he is still NDN no matter how he feels!

Now about your baby from Peru. If he was adopted by the tribe with the proper legal status. He becomes NDN and can accept or reject his adoption status. It is up to that person to accept or reject his position and situation. If he goes back to Peru to seek his birth culture, that's fine too.

For someone who wanted to end this discussion, your post was quite large.

My feelings are the same as what our tribal laws state. All tribes go by blood not culture. You will have a better chance of changing the tribes minds then mine. When their positions change, then so will mine.

I just thought of some more stuff

By your definition you are born NDN
And once you are that you will always be one

I say its a choice thing

You can choose to follow the teachings of your Parents and when you get up in age, you can decide to go off to school and never ever go back!!!
Never think about it again you can marry outside our your race and never tell your children with they are
You can give them your values and morales

They are not NDN
and it stops there


As far as what they identify with they are American


Our Culture is a handme down thing
Otherwise we would just be another brown-skinned race
Like the Mongolians or the Hmong

Its the culture and the blood that makes us unique from any other race
That has been my point all along

BrownEagleApache 01-30-2009 03:11 PM

How about this problem?
 
I understand where you are coming from. My problem is that my white mother lied to me all my life. I found out 2 years ago that my real father worked for the Southern-Pacific RR. He was a Kiowa-Gataka Apache from Lawton, OK. After being raised white and then finding out you are half NDN is kinda of a shock. However I am not pasty white. I am brown hair brown skin and brown eyes. Which I always thought was strange cuz I did not look like my brothers or sisters.

SuzzeQ4 01-30-2009 03:24 PM

I'm with TMJ on this one...
...perhaps cause I was adopted. There are thousands of us taken during the scoop that would agree. Every race has blood and culture, and those who assimilate into mainstream culture are still of the race they were born to despite how they live their life, although they may not be of the culture they were born to.

I was born NDN, taken and raised by whites, but I was still NDN even though I wasn't part of my culture. When I was a little older I went to become part of my culture and managed to find 2 members of my family (also adopted out). But I was 1/2 NDN then and now. Only difference is I am less assimilated. And yep I said less, don't know if after all that one can become completely unassimilated. To agree with Josiah would be saying that my siblings are less NDN then me, and I don't fell that way

I am waiting this year to get my fully opened adoption papers since all adoption records in canada are being completely opened. This will give me my Mom's full name instead of just the stats on her and I. Then I can take that info and go find her parents. Will this make me more NDN...I don't think so..it will just make me found...but I like to believe that my Grandparents (whoever they may be) know in their hearts that they got grandkids out there they never got to know. Which means we were never completely gone.

Also TKMJ: Bring that truck up over the border go down the 401 past toronto to the other end of the lake and we can all have a timmies break.:thumbsup: Think we could all use one.

add on hope this answers your question brown eyed

TKMJ Productions 01-30-2009 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josiah (Post 1262331)
I just thought of some more stuff

Our Culture is a handme down thing
Otherwise we would just be another brown-skinned race
Like the Mongolians or the Hmong

We are no different then any other people in the exhistance of mother earth. Do not discount any other people. Each believe they are the best. It's how this world thinks. Someday we as many other peoples will cease to exhist as we know ourselves and a new beginning will be on the horizion. We will be reduced to a paragraph in a history book as a people of the past. It is up to us to decide how large that paragraph will be.

The beauty of us as a people is that we can disagree here then dance side by side in the circle. We can break bread together and sit at the same drum.

And when it comes to the final days as a people, we will stand side by side and not face to face.

I agree to disagree but will stand side by side with you as a people!

That is the basics of what our ancestors have taught us!

PappyRoach 01-30-2009 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jls2009 (Post 1261778)
This goes way back. The personal attacks took off along time ago. To me and to these innocent people....

You know my Rez? I'm glad you seen what i've been through. Their choice, yes. Not mine. I didn't ask to be beaten. But this is besides the piont.

I bet you been blessed by the Yei's, for allowing these people to dance. I can see it on your picture.

My Personal Attacks? What do you think this guy is been doing...he and these people have been tearing at the very heart and purpose of who we are. Personal attacks? Call it defending......protecting.....A real person stands up for others..

I ain't here to claime what i am. I am here to stand up for these people. My people. My family. My friends. My life.

Papparoach... what's wrong? Afraid to stand to a real one?
I know about you now. I know about your circle.

Quit your ragging and growup. A real medecine man don't allow this crap. You don't know your history very well.

I have sent and forwarded the info you sent me by PM to some people in Az. I expect you will be hearing from them and others soon enough about your behavior and claims as I am willing to bet they will not be too happy with you.
I hope that you learn from this. No harm intended on my part but never again threaten me with harm in PM's again OK?

jls2009 01-30-2009 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PappyRoach (Post 1262353)
I have sent and forwarded the info you sent me by PM to some people in Az. I expect you will be hearing from them and others soon enough about your behavior and claims as I am willing to bet they will not be too happy with you.
I hope that you learn from this. No harm intended on my part but never again threaten me with harm in PM's again OK?

You got to be kidding me?

I checked on you. Your full of it. The numbers and info i gave you..... nothing. Nothing from you.

Your lying...... And some of these people here who know you. Mr. Lakota, says you're are not welcomed on your rez, What did you do? Besides that, Your very disrespective, to alot of other tribes customs.... Nobody don't like you...

I been getting alot of messages about you and your behaviors. I lived up my end, and what i did here, has been praised by my elders and many others......

I don't know what games your playing... And i'm sure whoever you got in your cards, I don't know who they are...

I talked to the ones who you wanted, they never heard from you.....

I keep promises..... Pappyroach, your lying and very dishonest here... And soon everyone will find out..

GWYLegend 01-30-2009 04:59 PM

Oh please great medicine man who knows all and sees all PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US WITH YOUR GREATNESS!!!!

shadowoman 01-30-2009 05:07 PM

we got our casino :party: finally
DONE DEAL Bradley Michigan after ten years lands in trust Gun Lake Band
woowho :thumbs_up :thumbsup:
shadows kid

PappyRoach 01-30-2009 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jls2009 (Post 1262360)
You got to be kidding me?

I checked on you. Your full of it. The numbers and info i gave you..... nothing. Nothing from you.

Your lying...... And some of these people here who know you. Mr. Lakota, says you're are not welcomed on your rez, What did you do? Besides that, Your very disrespective, to alot of other tribes customs.... Nobody don't like you...

I been getting alot of messages about you and your behaviors. I lived up my end, and what i did here, has been praised by my elders and many others......

I don't know what games your playing... And i'm sure whoever you got in your cards, I don't know who they are...

I talked to the ones who you wanted, they never heard from you.....

I keep promises..... Pappyroach, your lying and very dishonest here... And soon everyone will find out..

I was just able today to get back to your PM with the names and numbers you left so give me a day or two as I need a bit of time to make these calls.
A true Elder or Medicine person would NEVER come on the internet and make the claims you made or be so insulting.
I wonder what response I will get from these people you so freely are using to back up your claims?
I have the feeling they are not going to be happy with you.

shadowoman 01-30-2009 05:10 PM

we got it :party: our casino :thumbs-up: land in trust after ten years bradlet,michigan :laughing: we beat the white men

shadowoman 01-30-2009 05:10 PM

sorry I meant Bradley

jls2009 01-30-2009 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PappyRoach (Post 1262369)
I was just able today to get back to your PM with the names and numbers you left so give me a day or two as I need a bit of time to make these calls.
A true Elder or Medicine person would NEVER come on the internet and make the claims you made or be so insulting.
I wonder what response I will get from these people you so freely are using to back up your claims?
I have the feeling they are not going to be happy with you.

I already told others, what i was doing online. And what i seen. They lauphed.

I talked to other gourd dancers and traditional dancers. I have good friends, inthe Ha'tathlii council, they said not to let this happen and continue my fight in defense for all dancers, regardless of race or amount of blood...

I been not hiding anything to anybody in this forum or outside. The traditional dancers say what you are doing is shameful.... I have the blessings.... to continue.

Many don't agree with you.... And what you told me is not what you are doing.... or what you did...

Your lies are coming back at you. Keep this up and see what you put yourself in....

I talked to an M.C. Who said this kind of behavior will not be tolerated at any powwow he works.... He also says he might know you... He is going to check itout.

There is truth being spoken here. You have none.

PappyRoach 01-30-2009 06:08 PM

HUH ???????
I just got off the phone trying to cal your friend Carlos. He has not worked there for some time now and the nice young lady I talked with never heard of you.
The other numbers you gave are either disconected or are non working numbers...
Did not think I would call eh?
I made my point, bye bye


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