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SuzzeQ4 02-05-2009 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usafdancer (Post 1264018)
My sister and I share the same parents. She has a flat profile and a darker complection. I on the other hand have fair skin. if we were standing next to each other, I'm getting the impression you would ask her to join you and tell me to go home. We are both experienced dancers and understand our culture. Its rediculous you believe people should not be a part of our culture because of breading from so long ago. Just because you might not notice my heritage by looking doesn't mean its not there.

How come when ever you talk about wannabe's at powwows a dozen people always reply (all ticked off) about being a light skinned NDN? It's not the same thing...My sister is darker then me too, and my husbands TWIN brother has blond hair, light skin and blue eyes (like his dad) my hubby has brown skin and black hair (like his mom)...who cares...we all know families like this...I bet there is a light skinned NDN in every families closet! So my question is do you sympathise with the wannabes or dislike them for them for being rude, annoying and givin light skinned NDN's a bad rep?

OH AND HI, HOW YA DOING?

SpanishSteel 02-05-2009 06:55 PM

You are very right, TKMJ. Makes me sad, but that's history in progress. Which is another reason to try and keep and appreciate the old ways, and not let them die out.

Another thing we were laughing about the other day is the upcoming changes in Disneyland, and how much we liked it better (or so we think) when we were kids, before they took away all the rides we've loved for years.

My girlfriend (Cherokee) was remembering when the Rivers of America (and the Disneyland map) from the 60's showed the "Friendly Indians" versus "Unfriendly Indians" camps in the park. I still have my old map that shows this. It's right up there with the Ben Hunt books... Anyway, it has amused us over the last few decades as the attraction's political-correctness slowly evolved from "burning settler cabin and arrow-in-the-back body of white dude (because of the Unfriendly Indians)," to "Oh look, this prospector drank too much and passed out with lantern catching from the spilled whiskey jug and setting his cabin on fire" in the 80's to "just some guy's cabin with guy sleeping in front of it" as it is today.

She barely remembers in the 60s they had 'actual' Indians there (allegedly) showing craft demonstrations, but I don't remember that, my first time was in 1968.

wyo_rose 02-05-2009 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpanishSteel (Post 1264099)

There is a point, though, with sycamores who want to dance, where 'honoring the non-Indian half' would just look silly. I'd scarcely wear a Scottish regalia into an intertribal dance, let alone even attempt entering a pow-wow division. It would look crazy and out of place. Yes, it would be completely correct for and honor my heritage, and I certainly COULD do it in an intertribal, but can you imagine?!
.

Don't get me wrong. I don't mean honoring your non-ndn ancestors by adding other cultural attire to their powwow regalia.

I mean, tracing all your ancestors and checking out their unique cultures. Going to the Scottish Highlander doings if that fits your ancestry. Taking in the Mexican culture if that's it. Going to Octoberfest (on my to-do list -:lol:). Having a rip-roaring time on St. Paddy's Day (on my never-again list :rolleyes:). The list can go on and on.

There's a family around here that had little ndn blood, but for awhile they were uber-ndns - doing crafts, dressing the part, making all kinds of things, doing dances, demonstrations, reenactments. But I guess it was just a hobby, cuz now they're all into the Scottish highlander thing.

Actually I would love to be able to travel and experience ALL KINDS of cultures - every one is so unique and cool. Of course the coolest of all are right here in North America. And that's why so many folks want to be NDNs. Or play NDN anyway.

Do you think all those NATIVE AMERICANS on the last census are actual card carrying skins? Or even 1st or 2nd generation descendants?

I have no idea why I started posting in this thread. :tongue: I just know that I would be very hurt if I got to Hawaii and none of the Hawaiians would let me hula. :hysterica Devastated, I tell ya!! Just devastated!! My mom gave me a mu mu when I was 5 and I've been a Hawaiian wannabe ever since.

SpanishSteel 02-05-2009 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyo_rose (Post 1264115)
Don't get me wrong. I don't mean honoring your non-ndn ancestors by adding other cultural attire to their powwow regalia.

I mean, tracing all your ancestors and checking out their unique cultures. Going to the Scottish Highlander doings if that fits your ancestry. Taking in the Mexican culture if that's it. Going to Octoberfest (on my to-do list -:lol:). Having a rip-roaring time on St. Paddy's Day (on my never-again list :rolleyes:). The list can go on and on.

There's a family around here that had little ndn blood, but for awhile they were uber-ndns - doing crafts, dressing the part, making all kinds of things, doing dances, demonstrations, reenactments. But I guess it was just a hobby, cuz now they're all into the Scottish highlander thing.

Actually I would love to be able to travel and experience ALL KINDS of cultures - every one is so unique and cool. Of course the coolest of all are right here in North America. And that's why so many folks want to be NDNs. Or play NDN anyway.

Do you think all those NATIVE AMERICANS on the last census are actual card carrying skins? Or even 1st or 2nd generation descendants?

I have no idea why I started posting in this thread. :tongue: I just know that I would be very hurt if I got to Hawaii and none of the Hawaiians would let me hula. :hysterica Devastated, I tell ya!! Just devastated!! My mom gave me a mu mu when I was 5 and I've been a Hawaiian wannabe ever since.


Absolutely! Part of why we are going to powwows and want to get more involved, is honoring and respecting part of my GF's heritage. And we go to as many Scottish, Irish, German, Austrian, Finnish, etc things as we can! (It's not too hard in Southern CA particularly). I just like dancing -- which is something EVERY culture does! I like participating in powwows so far and want to do more. I'd like to help my GF make her regalia (she is of Eastern Band Cherokee descent but unsure of quantum yet) to honor and respect that part of her. Almost EVERYONE we have met at powwow so far has been nice, has explained things, and encouraging. We respect those who did not really want to talk to us, I understand that this is both a spiritual and competitive event. Every time we watch the dancing, there is always "one guy" (a different one each time, not the same guy) who really catches the eye and stand out, and a spectator -- if really paying attention -- can REALLY tell is 'in another place in his head' while dancing. It is breathtaking and thrilling to see -- some regalia are so eerie the wearers don't even look real. I love when I see that, because I can feel that it "IS REAL."

No 'wannabe' can capture that, nor would I want to see one try. I try to do the right thing at powwows: Eyes, ears, heart and mind open, mouth shut (except of course when cheering Ironman contests!).

And I must interject that the Arena Director and/or announcer make a huge difference for white onlookers. The last one we went to, the guy was really good at explaining what was happening, what we were seeing, and customs like poking fun and ribbing, ayye (which we didn't understand before but now do). Bottom line: Meet people halfway or more, and keep an open mind, particularly if it's not your culture, and then even if you make a mistake they will know you are trying to do it the right way.

steelemagnolia63 02-05-2009 08:09 PM

I thought that this thread was about Wannabes (or as my brother calls them Pretendians) not people who have native heritage light or dark... heck my brothers are darker than me too, we actually have a three shade thing going me being the lightest (or the palest complexion), but no one has ever doubted my hertiage at a powwow....and I don't wear a sign around my neck that says NDN and my blood quantum. No one has ever doubted my breeding. I don't think that you would be shunned because you are light skinned, most people that question skin tone aren't Native Americans if you had paid attention to the thread....

When I started dancing I approached it humbly and with respect. I didn't go in and have the MC announce me and my blood line, I didn't make a big deal, look at me I am dancing. I tried very hard to blend in not stand out in the crowd. Most wannabes want everyone to know what they are doing, what they are wearing....

Sort of like when I joined this site... I sat in the corner and lurked for a long time before I ever posted anything... I certainly didn't make my first post a obnoxious one...

:thinking: So Hi and welcome to the site....

TKMJ Productions 02-05-2009 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyo_rose (Post 1264115)
I have no idea why I started posting in this thread. :tongue:

There is only one of two reasons why you posted here.
1. You are hopelessly in love with me.
2. You hit the Submit Reply button.


Remember: The sound guy can always get you a seat under the drum arbor. :wink:

Hey Wyo Rose, Did you get the electric in your house finished?

Kamama 02-05-2009 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1263737)
sounds like you and joe's dad are going for the same period dress:tounge_sm

hahaha, prolly so, prolly so

Kamama 02-05-2009 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1263737)
sounds like you and joe's dad are going for the same period dress:tounge_sm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1263803)
Only you Jen can make a fashion statement like that!

The only person that looks weird at you is Danny. But thinking about it, Danny looks weird all the time!:lol:

haha, I dunno, I did have a guy once @ powwow, tell me I was quiet contrary while looking at my shoes. :hypnotize
Am I contrary? LOL....miss u guys too

wyo_rose 02-05-2009 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKMJ Productions (Post 1264192)
There is only one of two reasons why you posted here.
1. You are hopelessly in love with me.
2. You hit the Submit Reply button.


Remember: The sound guy can always get you a seat under the drum arbor. :wink:

Hey Wyo Rose, Did you get the electric in your house finished?

I think it was the Quick Reply button.

And no, just getting started on the electric. The demo has taken longer than planned cuz it's been so flipping cold. And...um...no electric for power tools. :rolleyes: I'm pretty confident on wiring the house now. Just gotta find someone to hook the panel to the service.

1 question: Are plastic outlet boxes supposed to have wire clamps, or what?

NorthofAda 02-05-2009 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 (Post 1264107)
How come when ever you talk about wannabe's at powwows a dozen people always reply (all ticked off) about being a light skinned NDN? It's not the same thing...My sister is darker then me too, and my husbands TWIN brother has blond hair, light skin and blue eyes (like his dad) my hubby has brown skin and black hair (like his mom)...who cares...we all know families like this...I bet there is a light skinned NDN in every families closet! So my question is do you sympathise with the wannabes or dislike them for them for being rude, annoying and givin light skinned NDN's a bad rep?

OH AND HI, HOW YA DOING?

I have a hard time trying to put my feelings on this subject into words, actually. I don't think I can say that I've met any wannabes (or observed any) that I could characterize as being rude. Annoying perhaps, probably embarrassed more like. Like the dude a couple of years back that had what looked like a gift shop quality feather bonnet on his head that kept flopping down over his face when he leaned over while dancing. That was weird!

Around these parts there are NDNs all over the color spectrum - from pale, blond and blue-eyed (like my 9-year-old) to those that look African-American. I think if you have appropriate regalia (well made, correct for tribe/dance category, etc.) then color doesn't play as much a role in other folks' attitudes.

If you're NDN and seek the privilege of entering the circle in regalia then it's your responsibility to do the research, watch, learn, and get it right. If you don't, and your regalia looks hokey, thrown-together, mixed up from every which way, then you can expect to get lumped in with the non-NDN wannabes.

SuzzeQ4 02-06-2009 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthofAda (Post 1264236)
If you're NDN and seek the privilege of entering the circle in regalia then it's your responsibility to do the research, watch, learn, and get it right. If you don't, and your regalia looks hokey, thrown-together, mixed up from every which way, then you can expect to get lumped in with the non-NDN wannabes.

Do you think thats the problem? they are rushing in, not properly taught or prepared and blaming the reaction they receive on their skin tone? I was mulling over a more cynical theory...but thats me. I've seen a darker skinned NDN who goes to some of the powwows and gets the same reaction for the reason you mentioned. Personnally I'm a happy, accepted member of my community...butt of some of my husbands jokes, don't look good in yellow...but happy.

Funny story
A while ago my niece (my brother's girl form my adopted family so she's white) asked my husband why he has white spots on his skin. He told her it was cause he was part NDN and part white. So last weekend she asked me why I didn't have any brown skin...My husband told her it was cause god was in a bad mood the day I was born. :tounge_sm

TKMJ Productions 02-06-2009 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyo_rose (Post 1264231)
I think it was the Quick Reply button.

And no, just getting started on the electric. The demo has taken longer than planned cuz it's been so flipping cold. And...um...no electric for power tools. :rolleyes: I'm pretty confident on wiring the house now. Just gotta find someone to hook the panel to the service.

1 question: Are plastic outlet boxes supposed to have wire clamps, or what?



Some do and some don't. It depends on the manufacturer. Blue and grey Carlon manufacturered boxes usually do not have a mounting clamp. Check for a mounting clamp holes inside the box. If a clamp is required, it should have come with the box. If the boxes have a 7/8" knockout hole then it is made for pipe. If the box has small square holes in the corners, it was made for romex.

Bodica 02-06-2009 05:53 AM

Why did my post here get deleted?:thinking:
Oh, nevermind; I found it on a different thread.
Now if only I could delete posts as well as just editing them.

Whitefeather EORS 02-06-2009 06:19 AM

I'am Shawnee with light complection here in the east our ancestors married into dunkard families as a way to hide from the government,and besides that all the full bloods are gone here in the east.it's not the color of your skin it's whats in your heart.
Whitefeather East of the River Shawnee

TKMJ Productions 02-06-2009 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitefeather EORS (Post 1264290)
Whitefeather East of the River Shawnee

Hi Whitefeather! Are you associated with the Shawnee people that hang around Bellfountaine, Ohio? URB?

Welcome!!!!

shadowoman 02-06-2009 07:22 AM

:angel_smitotally different line!!!
Ladies today
is heart health day!!!!!! we ndn's need to take care of our heart health please get checked !!!
Keep our blood alive for your children !!!!!!
Miigwetch shadow:wilted_ro

Mato Winyan 02-06-2009 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitefeather EORS (Post 1264290)
I'am Shawnee with light complection here in the east our ancestors married into dunkard families as a way to hide from the government,and besides that all the full bloods are gone here in the east.it's not the color of your skin it's whats in your heart.
Whitefeather East of the River Shawnee

Why would ancestors have to marry into drunkard families to hide from the government? :thinking:

beeleaf 02-06-2009 09:35 AM

Quote:

and besides that all the full bloods are gone here in the east.
Hello there, Whitefeather. Could you please clarify that statement. Are you saying there are no more full blood Shawnee or no more full bloods at all here in the east?

Joe G 02-06-2009 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mato Winyan (Post 1264360)
Why would ancestors have to marry into drunkard families to hide from the government? :thinking:

They were also moonshiners! :lol: But it says Dunkard, not drunkard.

Kamama 02-06-2009 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitefeather EORS (Post 1264290)
and besides that all the full bloods are gone here in the east.

Uhm, I know some full bloods, and Im in West Virginia - does that count? We also travel quiet a bit to parts of Ohio, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Kentucky (dont kill me LOL), and other places (Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois), and theres bloods at all these places, some more then others, some, not so much. But, they are there, just gotta look around. :)

Where abouts is East of the River Shawnee peoples located? I know quiet a few Shawnees, (granted, there not full bloods, but) just curious if maybe I know you?


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