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Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Pow Wow Talk Carrying in the Stars and Stripes Carrying in the Stars and Stripes

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Old 06-25-2015, 09:52 AM   #1
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Carrying in the Stars and Stripes

Do you think it is okay for non-veteran/active military person to bring in the American (or Canadian flag) during a powwow grand entry?
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:18 AM   #2
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:26 AM   #3
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Hmmm...what if it's a highly respected Traditional dancer?
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:34 AM   #4
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http://forums.powwows.com/f34/native-patriotism-45725/
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:59 AM   #5
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NDIAN COUNTRY TODAY

‘Custer’ responds to Veterans Administration powwow controversy

A Custer re-enactor participated in the color guard for a Memorial Day powwow on the campus of the Dayton Veterans Administration Medical Center. Accompanying the Custer figure were General Robert E. Lee and General Ulysses S. Grant lookalikes.

By Stephanie Woodard, Today correspondent

Story Published: Jul 16, 2010

(Story Updated: Jul 16, 2010 )

DAYTON, Ohio – Rick Williams, whose appearance garbed as General George Armstrong Custer at a recent Veterans Administration powwow generated controversy and anger, spoke to Indian Country Today about his experience of the event. For more, see the original story published June 30 in Vol. 30, No. 4 of ICT.

ICT: When did you realize something was amiss?
Rick Williams: A week after at the Dayton powwow, I heard people were angry, and I was floored. I’m a living historian and have represented Custer at the Dayton VA’s Patriot Freedom Festival for four or five years. I specialize in his less-well-known Civil War career, sometimes with full battle re-enactments, such as those I’ve done for four years at Hardin, Montana’s Big Horn Days.

At the VA event, we do living history encampments and show visitors the equipment, weapons and so on. We did that on Saturday and on Sunday morning of the festival weekend. We also visited the VA hospital wards along with an Indian who was a former patient and rode our horses around. As usual, I was the butt of ‘arrow-shirt’ jokes. On Sunday afternoon, someone – I’m not sure who – invited several of us re-enactors to be in honor guard for the powwow, which was elsewhere on the grounds.

>>>>>>>> shortened>>>>>>>>

ICT: Are you returning to the Dayton powwow next year?
RW: I’ve been invited, but I’m staying away from the Indian camp. It’s not worth the controversy. I did not intend nor did I anticipate [what happened] when I walked into that circle. I meant no disrespect to anyone.
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:14 PM   #6
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I think with powwows popping up everywhere , and the lack of experience at some of them , flag bearers may be hard to come up with. So I think it would depend on the area. I've seen Boy Scout color guards , ROTC color guards , Gourd Dance club color guards , and just random guys from the crowd ! Just depends on where you're at !
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:54 PM   #7
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I like how alot of OK powwows do it, where the committee sets up the colorguard in advance, usually with a tribal vet organization or one of the co-hosts for the dance.

But in alot of places, it falls to the AD to pick the flag carriers for each session, so here's how I try to do it - Not saying it's the best way or the only way or that it's right or wrong, but it seems to work and I haven't had any complaints that I know of. (Veterans and active duty are interchangeable in the lists below!)

Eagle Staff - First choice, a vet in full dance clothes. 2nd choice, a public servant (police, fire, EMS, teacher, tribal official, etc) in full rig. 3rd choice - chief's descendant from the local community in full outfit. 4th choice - a well known & respected dancer (prefer tradish or straight just because that's what a lot of folks are used to, but if the person is well respected there's nothing wrong with a grass, fancy, chicken, smoke dancer, etc.) I've yet to be in a position to have a woman carry an eagle staff, but I've heard of a situation where that did happen based on the woman's specific accomplishments for the organization that asked her. I think there'll be a time where it's not out of the ordinary for a woman to carry the staff, but I'd bet it'd follow the basic ideas I listed above for men...

National flags & state flags - it seems Canadians think about their flag a bit differently than folks in the US, no? I've kind of got a hierarchy of choices here too: 1st - vet in full rig, 2nd active duty or vet in uniform/BDUs etc, 3rd - vets in gourd dance gear, 4th - other vets who know what to do, 5th - public servants in full gear, 6th - someone in full gear who's a descendant of a chief, or noted warrior, or veteran preferably in full outfit, 7th - a well respected member of the community preferably in full gear.

POW/MIA flag or Service branch flags - For flags of specific branches I try to get an active duty or vet of that branch. At the very least, for the POW/MIA flag or any military flag, a vet is my preference.

Tribal flags - somebody from that tribe!

For all of the above flags, women are increasingly carrying those. I've asked a woman vet to carry a flag before & no one batted an eye. I followed the same ideas as above... I'm sure some places it'd be frowned on, but it's more and more common.

Usually for grand entry, I don't have to go very deep down my list of preferences. When the dance is over, some committees like to "dance the flags out" but alot of elders and gourd dancers (alot of whom are vets) have gone home, so this is when you get deeper down the list. (Also, the dancing the flags out thing - not everybody does it. It'd be interesting to see where and when it started and who does or doesn't do it...)

Anyway, my $.02. Not claiming it's right or wrong or that its the only way, and local protocol should always be the first consideration.

(PS WhoMe - tell your dad hi from us in NM!)
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:41 PM   #8
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As a camera man, i've filmed all types of grand entries,

and colors retreats.

I know not everybody can stay around to the end,

but i've filmed some very good endings, just because so many

people have to leave, & would not see it otherwise.

FACEBOOK PHOTO ALBUM: Powwow Color Guards

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=ecff32ed1d
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:16 AM   #9
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One reason our veterans/active military/warriors were initially asked to lead grand entries is because it serves as a powerful reminder of how the modern powwow originated - from warrior societies. Warriors who had actually participated as combatants in Indian wars with the United States participated in the early wild west show grand entries.

I am seeing and chronicaling how and when change evolves in the modern powwow. Things are changing fast now......
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Old 06-29-2015, 02:27 PM   #10
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I never volunteer for the Color Guard, I get asked to carry the Colors in a grand entry. Its up to the people who run the powwow on who should carry the Colors. I have carried the Colors many times though at powwows.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:26 AM   #11
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The WILD WEST Shows -

Buffalo Bill would set up his show, then have a parade of the cast (Natives & others) through the streets of the town to bring people to his Wild West show.

Are these parades the roots of Grand Entry?
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Old 07-22-2015, 01:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
The WILD WEST Shows -

Buffalo Bill would set up his show, then have a parade of the cast (Natives & others) through the streets of the town to bring people to his Wild West show.

Are these parades the roots of Grand Entry?
Yes !
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They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

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