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Forum Home - Go Back > General > Ancestry and Genealogy Can you rejoin a tribe if your ancestor was kicked out? Can you rejoin a tribe if your ancestor was kicked out?

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Old 04-20-2021, 10:14 AM   #1
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Can you rejoin a tribe if your ancestor was kicked out?

My grandfather was Apache but got himself and the family kicked out (exiled? erased?) The site says that if you want to reconnect, all you have to do is find your ancestor on the rolls. I'm not sure this is something we can recover from though. My mom and aunts have no interest in rejoining, and my cousins couldn't care less, but it was such a significant part of our lives less than a generation ago!

I know where we came from, and I know where we went, but I don't know how to go back. Is it even possible, or were we cast out forever because of what he did? If anyone has any input, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:57 AM   #2
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This is going to depend a lot on whether your ancestor was formally disenrolled or whether they left and cut ties on an informal basis. The below explains, albeit in a less than neutral way, what disenrollment is.

Disenrollment

If they weren't disenrolled, then you will need to meet whatever your tribe's membership criteria are. You can start finding those laws here:

NARF Tribaal Law Gateway

If they were disenrolled, I not sure what, if any, recourse you would have. You will probably need to consult an attorney specializing in tribal law.


Please don't get offended but, I think you need to carefully evaluate what you want from tribal membership. You need to understand what it will and will not give you, or you may end up broken hearted. Enrollment isn't the golden ticket. It isn't going to make you an instant Indian. Nor is it going to grant you immediate access into the cultural life of the tribe.

Enculturation is a long process. It will alway be an incomplete process. Think of people who immigrate to US. They become part of American political and cultural life, but there are always ways in which they differ, for good and ill, from the "American mainstream." You are going have to build relationships. Only exposure and human interaction will assimilate you. An ID card won't give that to you.
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Old 04-20-2021, 11:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLChemist View Post
Please don't get offended but, I think you need to carefully evaluate what you want from tribal membership. You need to understand what it will and will not give you, or you may end up broken hearted. Enrollment isn't the golden ticket. It isn't going to make you an instant Indian. Nor is it going to grant you immediate access into the cultural life of the tribe.

Enculturation is a long process. It will alway be an incomplete process. Think of people who immigrate to US. They become part of American political and cultural life, but there are always ways in which they differ, for good and ill, from the "American mainstream." You are going have to build relationships. Only exposure and human interaction will assimilate you. An ID card won't give that to you.
I'm not offended at all, I get what you mean. I've tried to keep up with the culture since I was a kid (I started researching at 7 or 8, and my grandma was more than happy to help), but it's always felt distant, something my parents tried to keep me away from. I was always the kid sitting at my grandmother's feet, asking for stories, learning crafts, anything she could give me.

I'm not really seeking legal membership, I'm just not sure if I'm allowed back.
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingtoreconnect View Post

I'm not really seeking legal membership, I'm just not sure if I'm allowed back.
Back to what , or where ? What is it that you think you should have ? Or what do you expect ?
There are many many folks looking for an identity and most are claiming some tidbit of ndn blood from some distant ancestor ! Most don't have a clue about their heritage , but just make stuff up and go powwow anyway. Then they get all butt hurt when they aren't accepted.Most of those didn't have a Grandma to learn from. It seems to me you have an advantage !
Are you wanting to move back to a rez ? Are you just wanting to be accepted ? If you don't want tribal membership then just what is this "back" you're hoping to get to ? Lots of information missing about this person who left. Were they kicked out ? Dis-enrolled? Just leave? Lots of questions !
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:55 AM   #5
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Back to what , or where ? What is it that you think you should have ? Or what do you expect ?
There are many many folks looking for an identity and most are claiming some tidbit of ndn blood from some distant ancestor ! Most don't have a clue about their heritage , but just make stuff up and go powwow anyway. Then they get all butt hurt when they aren't accepted.Most of those didn't have a Grandma to learn from. It seems to me you have an advantage !
Are you wanting to move back to a rez ? Are you just wanting to be accepted ? If you don't want tribal membership then just what is this "back" you're hoping to get to ? Lots of information missing about this person who left. Were they kicked out ? Dis-enrolled? Just leave? Lots of questions !
Well, my grandma was a Cherokee lost bird, but she lived on the Apache reservation for around a decade. Even then, there's only so much she can tell me, and most of that is second-hand for her.

My grandfather didn't tell his family much (thus all the question marks) but we know he got into a screaming match with the council (possibly over land rights.) Three days later, he took his wife & three daughters, said they weren't welcome with the apache anymore and left to Peru.

Our native heritage was always something between me, my grandmother, and all of her brothers. I'm the one with all the jewelry that was passed down, all the photos, all the native bits of our family we had that they wouldn't trust anyone else not to sell. It's something I want to pass down to my kid, but I want to add to it, give them the heritage and history to go along with the artifacts.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:28 AM   #6
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When you're next in AZ, you need to drive US 60 from Globe to Show Low, through Salt River Canyon. It is my favorite scenic drive in the southwest. It beautiful and it is your people's home.

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Old 04-21-2021, 10:43 AM   #7
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Well , the Cherokee culture and the Apache cultures are about as far apart as night and day ! You obviously know more from the Cherokee side so just go with that ! If you look too close at history , you might not like what you find !
__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

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Old 04-25-2021, 03:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by tryingtoreconnect View Post
Well, my grandma was a Cherokee lost bird, but she lived on the Apache reservation for around a decade. Even then, there's only so much she can tell me, and most of that is second-hand for her.

My grandfather didn't tell his family much (thus all the question marks) but we know he got into a screaming match with the council (possibly over land rights.) Three days later, he took his wife & three daughters, said they weren't welcome with the apache anymore and left to Peru.

Our native heritage was always something between me, my grandmother, and all of her brothers. I'm the one with all the jewelry that was passed down, all the photos, all the native bits of our family we had that they wouldn't trust anyone else not to sell. It's something I want to pass down to my kid, but I want to add to it, give them the heritage and history to go along with the artifacts.
Takahi atiao @tryingtoreconnect I am new here to this forum, so I do not want to step on anyone's toes or offend either. Your heritage is your heritage and no one can take that away from you no matter where you live. However, you do not have to live in the Rez for you to "feel" your heritage. It's in your blood. You are who you are. Now, just like our friends here have asked, you have to ask yourself what exactly you are looking to get out of this. Only you can answer that question for yourself. You are not going to feel more Native just by joining your grandfather's tribe. You will still feel the same. I get that you feel a sort of emptiness inside, and that is why you are looking for your grandfather's peoples. You also have to ask yourself, how bad was what you grandfather did that he may have been kicked out, disenrolled, and/or maybe he left on his own. Leaving on his own doesn't disenroll him. There are ways to find out if your grandfather is still enrolled. You may want to get in contact with the council of your grandfather's tribe and speak to someone and ask questions. They can tell you if he was still enrolled in the tribe even after he left.

I am enrolled in First Nations Guiania Tribe. My mother left the Rez when my sister and I were young, but we are still members, and I am still involved with my culture and my peoples even though I am technically not living "in" the Rez. You do not need to live in the Rez to be involved with your peoples if that's what you thought. however, our friends here are correct. You have to build relationships. They do not know you, and they do not know your intentions, albeit good. If you want to be involved, your first step is to speak to someone from the Apache council. I do not know what tribe your family is from, but you can start here and they may be able to guide you in the right direction to finding your grandfather's tribe and status.

White Mountain Apache Tribe
PO Box 700
Whiteriver, AZ 85941

Phone: (928) 338-4346
Fax: (928) 338-1514

https://itcaonline.com/member-tribes/white-mountain-apache-tribe/
and
Resources ? White Mountain Apache Tribe

Tonto Apache Tribe
Tonto Apache Reservation 30
Payson, AZ 85541

Phone: (928) 474-5000
Fax: (928) 474-9125
(I found no website for them)

Yavapai-Apache Nation
2400 W. Datsi Street
Camp Verde, AZ 86322

Phone: (928) 567-3649
Fax: (928) 567-1082

https://itcaonline.com/member-tribes...apache-nation/
and
https://yavapai-apache.org/government/

Hopefully you will get some type of answers. Do your homework, your research. There is a lot of information that you can find online regarding the Apache Tribes and contact info.

I hope this helps.

Masinatio kena kakona
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Old 05-13-2021, 10:38 AM   #9
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Hopefully you will get some type of answers. Do your homework, your research. There is a lot of information that you can find online regarding the Apache Tribes and contact info.

I hope this helps.

Masinatio kena kakona
Running Eagle
Aho! I actually managed to find out what his name was last week... So I'll finally be able to ask if he was disenrolled! Apparently, I still have like, 23 cousins on the reservation, so if I need proof of relation I don't even have to hunt anyone down. (My grandfather had 7 siblings, and none of them or their kids left.) I found his death certificate, and he apparently died on the rez, in a house he owned, so... I guess we aren't banned.

:D Thanks to everyone that responded to this thread. I really wouldn't know where to start without y'all.

Last edited by tryingtoreconnect; 05-13-2021 at 10:59 AM.. Reason: additional info
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