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Old 04-30-2005, 01:08 AM   #1
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Wink During a women traditional dance on honor beats

on honor beat, how many steps do u do in place and inward and the outward. i've be taught 4 in place 7 in 7 out but i'm trying to break that and go with4 in place 9 in 5 out but ever since i've been dancing i've been told to do other wise and its really hard to break that habit to. so what is ur honor beat footwork?
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Old 04-30-2005, 10:28 AM   #2
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When I dance during a honor beat I dance in place with my body still moving with the beat and turn my body to the side. Kinda in a circle. I personally love the way I dance not to say Im the best But. So does everyone else too....
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Old 04-30-2005, 06:19 PM   #3
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I can't say, because I don't count how many "steps".
I stay down until the drum picks up on it's start and then come up and I come up slowly because the beat changes during the down beats and it is easy to get out of time(something my mom watches for and chews me out for when I don't pay attention to the drum beat.LOL)
I guess I could count next time, but it really depends on your drum that is singing for you and how they beat the drum and what song they are singing. If you get Cozad, they will sing without the drum beat sometime and you have to go with the song.
It's really not a mathematical equasion, it's depending on the drum beat and the song.
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sltate
I can't say, because I don't count how many "steps".
I stay down until the drum picks up on it's start and then come up and I come up slowly because the beat changes during the down beats and it is easy to get out of time(something my mom watches for and chews me out for when I don't pay attention to the drum beat.LOL)
I guess I could count next time, but it really depends on your drum that is singing for you and how they beat the drum and what song they are singing. If you get Cozad, they will sing without the drum beat sometime and you have to go with the song.
It's really not a mathematical equasion, it's depending on the drum beat and the song.
Well down here it depends on your tribe.I never can get it right.Because I've been told 7in7out then 8in8out. It's confuzzling so I just follow someone that I know is REALLY good. Like my powwow mommas or head lady.(if head lady is tradish, witch down here thats usually how it is lol) I dunno but, also like previously said it depends on the drum sometimes!!
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:38 PM   #5
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I dont know because I havnt started dancing that style yet. but i would probably turn in a circle and dance in place till the lead starts again. thats what i do in jingle. on the downbeats i stop, dance in place, turn around and keep my fan up and my place till the lead starts again. but if the lead doesnt start for a while then i put it down af ter about...7 missisipis
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Old 05-03-2005, 01:45 PM   #6
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I never heard of anyone counting steps when they danced this Okie style dance. Must be something new. And as for dancing in place during the Honor Beats, the first time I saw someone do this was Jackie Tsonetokoy when she was in her pre-teen years at the powwows in Oklahoma.
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Old 05-03-2005, 02:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powwowgirl4life
Well down here it depends on your tribe.I never can get it right.Because I've been told 7in7out then 8in8out. It's confuzzling so I just follow someone that I know is REALLY good. Like my powwow mommas or head lady.(if head lady is tradish, witch down here thats usually how it is lol) I dunno but, also like previously said it depends on the drum sometimes!!
You and the original poster are from AL and FL - not exactly places I would call pow wow country. That said, I think you have been given incorrect (if not made up) information regarding the honors beats.

Now, you have the opportunity to listen to the people down there, or you have the opportunity to listen to people like sltate who are from Oklahoma and definitely know what they are doing. Granted, tribal styles will dictate dress in the southern cloth category, but I've been told by many women from Oklahoma that the counting in and out is just not what they do. They dance to the song like sltate described.
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Old 05-03-2005, 06:05 PM   #8
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I'm a northern dancer; I don't count either, that sounds silly to me(like we're cookie-cutter dancers). Rather the best thing to do, when dancing to songs you don't know, is to be frugal on the first set of honor beats, but pay close attention. If you do, you should know what to do for the rest of that song.
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:23 PM   #9
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I have been dancing since the the mid 60s and was taught to slightly bow and dance into the drum or circle about 3 or so steps and then back out about the same rising back to a dancing position. My teachers were the Ponca and Kiowa tribes IN Okla. though I am out of Fla. Use to go out there to dance other than in fla. with the Gand daddy of Powwows in the South...The North Fla. Indian Culture Society of Jacksonville, Fl. started in 1972. We held the big dance at Keystone Hights that people from all over the US would come to for 4 and more days. Our drum was the Ponca Drum headed by Harry Buffalo Head with singers and his wonderful wife, Lynore. Lots of great teaching and learning went on there.

All this fan waving above the head I have never seen until the last few years and not really in the Northern Powwows until about 10 or more years ago. Never saw it in Oklahoma...want to see the films.....VHS tapes of Carnegie and White Horse and others. Even the Older Films from Into the Circle show this type of more subdued dancing except for the contest.

This "flamboyancy" with the fans and so much bowing seems to be more from the contest dances and has spilled over into what I would call the basic Powwow dances. Hey...styles change with the times.

I do not attend dances as I once did due to job comittment and illness...blew both knees....broke one at a dance..fell and hit a rock, bead and then the knee sandwiched inbetween. So much for my danceing days.

So you younger whipper snappers can fight it out on who dances in or out with what. I will just stand back and watch the "discussion".
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Old 05-03-2005, 10:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
You and the original poster are from AL and FL - not exactly places I would call pow wow country. That said, I think you have been given incorrect (if not made up) information regarding the honors beats.

Now, you have the opportunity to listen to the people down there, or you have the opportunity to listen to people like sltate who are from Oklahoma and definitely know what they are doing. Granted, tribal styles will dictate dress in the southern cloth category, but I've been told by many women from Oklahoma that the counting in and out is just not what they do. They dance to the song like sltate described.
Well, I know why I do the 7/8 honor beats.I was taught it's in honor...of....of...well I forgot now....dagum...sorry it's been a loooong day but anywho and the reason we bow our heads and lift our fan and look toward the sky is repersenting gun shots and btw there are quiet a few powwows down here where I live atleast 2 or 3 a month and i was taught the honor beat stuff from an elder.....i'm part of generation X that actually LISTENS to the elders
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Old 05-04-2005, 12:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powwowgirl4life
Well, I know why I do the 7/8 honor beats.I was taught it's in honor...of....of...well I forgot now....dagum...sorry it's been a loooong day but anywho and the reason we bow our heads and lift our fan and look toward the sky is repersenting gun shots and btw there are quiet a few powwows down here where I live atleast 2 or 3 a month and i was taught the honor beat stuff from an elder.....i'm part of generation X that actually LISTENS to the elders
Like slate says -- round here we don't count...dance to the song and drum. And as far as "bow our heads and lift our fan and look toward the sky is representing gun shots".....where does this come from?........If you listen to the elders......first you would know what they said, then you could repeat it.

Not trying to cause a arguement...Round here raising a fan is a big deal and we don't "look for gun shot and to the sky"....It means a whole different thing.
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Old 05-04-2005, 12:13 AM   #12
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I have to agree; I've never seen a southern style dancer raise their fan, period. I've never heard anything about "gun-shots" either. Maybe this is a southern-Florida belief?
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Old 05-04-2005, 12:47 AM   #13
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In Oklahoma there are a few that raise their fan -- mostly younger women (late teens) --- not above their heads....maybe shoulder height and never looking towards the sky. Not real sure if they know why they do it or if they just think it looks good. I was told that it had very specific meaning and purpose - not something that needs to be relayed in a public forum.
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Old 05-04-2005, 02:28 AM   #14
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Old 05-04-2005, 07:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powwowgirl4life
Well, I know why I do the 7/8 honor beats.I was taught it's in honor...of....of...well I forgot now....dagum...sorry it's been a loooong day but anywho and the reason we bow our heads and lift our fan and look toward the sky is repersenting gun shots and btw there are quiet a few powwows down here where I live atleast 2 or 3 a month and i was taught the honor beat stuff from an elder.....i'm part of generation X that actually LISTENS to the elders

im sorry im confused why r u looking for gun shots? and how do u down your head and look up?

neways... when i dance i dont count i just dance with the song. i dont raise my fan or look up. very similar to the way sltate & powwowhoney4life said
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Old 05-04-2005, 08:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powwowgirl4life
Well, I know why I do the 7/8 honor beats.I was taught it's in honor...of....of...well I forgot now....dagum...sorry it's been a loooong day but anywho and the reason we bow our heads and lift our fan and look toward the sky is repersenting gun shots and btw there are quiet a few powwows down here where I live atleast 2 or 3 a month and i was taught the honor beat stuff from an elder.....i'm part of generation X that actually LISTENS to the elders
I see you chose not to listen to these knowledgeable people from Oklahoma. You say you heard this mumbo jumbo from an elder. Which tribe is this "elder" from anyways?

I don't doubt that there are 2-3 pow wows down there a month. I've been to two pow wows in Alabama in my life, and I will NEVER GO BACK!! They stunk - pure and simple.

The point I'm trying to make is that you dance a style that originates from tribes based in Oklahoma, but yet you choose to take advice from people not based in those tribal traditions. Doesn't make sense.
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:40 AM   #17
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Angry

Some years ago, a lady by the name of BooBoo Ann, if I remember right, came to Fla. and taught this type of fan raising and stepping for the ladies. And these young ladies taught others. She also taught it was right to put babies bottoms on drums durring a dance. Trouble is, it was not right and should not have been taught...but because she was an "INdian" and all of the rest of us with years of experince of Oklahoma and Northern dance were wrong. This lady recieved money and gifts for the expertice she gave.

Now the state of Fla. and parts of Ga and Alabama are considered a joke out West. We once had a great reputation with what the group NFICS, 1972-1994?, had created between whites and Indians. That has been destroyed today because of the New Age Indians and Natives who sold their knowledge....which in most cases was not based on fact or experience.

So ladies...if you are part of the Cherokees of Ga. and other groups in Central Fla. and South Ga.....and were taught by her and those she taught...you now have the story.

Singer Dad is right in what he is saying and seeing. I also do not dance because I am apauled at what I see going on in the Dance Circle and with this so called knowledge some dancers think they have. Check where you got it before starting new wrinkles in the Circle.
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Old 05-04-2005, 03:47 PM   #18
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fans

What Singer Dad and Tipis is trying to tell you is the truth. I have ben at this since I am 2. I have never seen such trash. I also went thru the BooBoo years in Florida. She also taught the garbage about if you are single you wear your feather and shawl on one arm and if married on the other. The people that live hear are sick of hearing and seeing the garbage. Also we don't like being told why can't you change it. I guess it is just easier to believe the trash. They don't want to hear the real ways. I was told that the rules are too strict. Us oldsters have had a ball within those rules.
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:59 PM   #19
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dang, I didn't know I was supposed to COUNT...lol...but I don't wanna look like Rainman out there...4 in 7 out, definitely, definitely 4 in 7 out....ooooops fart!

LOL
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Old 05-07-2005, 12:18 AM   #20
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Hon,just because someone is older in age,doesn't mean they're an "elder".

And the gunshot stuff just makes you come off looking like an idiot. Really. I'm serious. People will talk about you for DAYS. LOL!

You recieved some good suggestions here. The best thing you can do is listen to the drum. You're supposed to be dancing with the drum,not keeping your own time. The song will tell your feet where to go. :D

I'm not putting you down. And I know the North Bay Clan. In fact,I have some people who are very close to my heart are from down that way. I know that in the past,there was some real knowledge. Now,it seems,there are people going around spreading untruths and making the clan out to look like a bunch of idiots,not unlike the tribes in AL and GA. So,really listen to what you're hearing here. Then go to a pow wow outside of where you normally go and *watch*. You'll see what these kind people are trying to say. :) Good luck to you!
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