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Old 11-13-2007, 05:06 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by OgamaWab10 View Post
one thing i don't like Obama is that he is a Christian, but he is entitle to his own belief. as many other are...
Ogama,
Good choice of words for they were your own out of your thoughts, bravo!
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:43 PM   #122
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STILL, no original thought Ogama! Yes, I too am happy you made a sentence or two that came from you but that is not debate!
Your use of Obamas first commercial is really something! What a deception that's going on! First for some time now Obama feels that he is the incarnate of JFK, in which JFK, has been a civil rights god. Then he goes to Martin Luther King, another god in the civil rights movement. Then it goes to the cartoons and it says that there is no Black America, or White America, or Hispanic America and that there is no conservative America or liberal America. There is just one America! Good Grief! Now then explain to me why he plays the race card for the first half of the movie and then says that there is no such thing as a seperate America and then goes on to liken the Iraq war to this countries civil war! What utter nonsense! Talk about being all over the place! It's riding the coat tails of JFK, and Martin Luther King and trying to tell us that even though he is not the most qualified man running and certainly hasn't done the same great works of these men, he, "MIGHT" do a good job???? Why? Because he has an abundance of pigment???
You told me that you watched the videos and that you want to solve the problems in the Middle East peacefully! Well in that commercial, Obama wants to condem those people to who ever has the most guns, bombs, WMDS, Nukes etc. and then they can have another Saddam or worse! DOES THAT SOUND PEACEFULL TO YOU???????

I'm old enough to remeber the, "Killing Fields"...you aren't. This is what you will condem the people in Iraq to and it's anything but peaceful!



Go to YOUTUBE and look up Pol Pot and see what they do. Go and look up the mass graves in the middle east by those in power who kill indiscriminately. You can look at the films where Saddam tortured people, you look at the public hangings of homosexuals in Iran, you see as part of the culture that they murder and maime women right and left, won't allow an education, medical care, send the religious police to harm or kill you and your family and this is the peaceful solution that you and Obama seek???
Things like this were done to OUR people, and it changed us forever, and not in a good way! Yet how can we as a people let it go on to another race,as it we are blind to their suffering?
Look at the videos again, because if it's racism with a religious twist and an Ideology that declares that they are after, "World Domination", then there is no turning your back on it and thinking that it will stay in one region!! HOW MANY VIDEOS OR NEWS STORIES DOES IT TAKE TO PROVE TO YOU THAT IT IS A WORLD STRUGGLE??? IT ISN'T IN THAT REGION ALONE AND YOU AND OBAMA WILL GET MILLIONS KILLED IF YOU IGNORE THE THREAT AND THINK SO SIMPLISTICALLY!! THEY AREN'T FIGHTING WITH MUSKETTS!!! THEY ARE THREATENING OTHER NATIONS WITH ANNIHILATION!! WHAT ARE YOU MISSING?? Tell me and I will find it for you!!! Do we stand by, while Israel is eliminated and do nothing?? While we watch the further GENOCIDE of the Jews?
Tell me what the peaceful solution is if Obama says let them fight it out and kill each other? THAT'S A PEACE MAKER TO YOU? TO CONDEM INNOCENT PEOPLE TO TYRANNY??
Now how about that debate and you showing some facts about this, as millions of lives ARE on the line? Do you need more pictures of multilated bodies to make you think harder? What will it take??? The web site is the truth OF WHAT THEY DO TO THEIR OWN PEOPLE!! WE DID NOT CAUSE THAT! IT'S THE IDEOLOGY THAT IS THE PROBLEM AND THAT IDEOLOGY IS THIS!

WORLD DOMINATION!!


WORLD DOMINATION!! UNDER CLINTON! MUSLIMS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST! OUT OF THE REGION!!!


WORLD DOMINATION! ONE WAY OR ANOTHER! What they do to children and Christian men and how they rape little girls!


WORLD DOMINATION! HOW DO YOU TURN YOUR BACK ON THEM AND IGNORE THIS? THIS GOES ON WHERE RADICAL ISLAM EXISTS!
width="425" height="355">

WORLD DOMINATION! A MUST SEE VIDEO!


WORLD DOMINATION!


WORLD DOMINATION! THE MOVIE SHE MADE THAT LED TO THE MURDER OF HER FREIND AND A DEATH SENTENCE ON HER NECK!



Skillet, I know that it depends on what side of the fence you sit on and how long our struggle has been, but you have to take a stand on what's right. If not, those on the side of Hitler's fence or Pol Pots fence an others like them, left unchallenged, the result is the loss of life of miilions of innocents as history has born out again and again.

Tell me Ogama what it's going to take to prove to you that it IS NOT CONTAINED IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND MUST BE DEALT WITH? Debate you beliefs and prove your points!
OBAMA BETTER BE ABLE TO DO A HELL OF ALOT BETTER THAN HANDING OVER THE ABILITY TO KILL TO MONSTERS THAT ENSLAVE PEOPLE! I WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR SUCH A MAN!
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:03 AM   #123
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i wish you both would stop posting these youtube links,theyre obnoxious

wako...ive been taking a stand for over 35 years
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:58 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Skillet View Post
i wish you both would stop posting these youtube links,theyre obnoxious
My feelings also!
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Old 11-14-2007, 12:49 PM   #125
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Taking a stand for 35 yrs. great, as you should. It is that you always question or make harsh statements to me or others Skillet and there is no reason for you anger! (Wako),You made the statement to me first, and I addressed it, that simple.
Every election cycle everyone on this board decides ONLY what Democrat they will vote for because they are the NDN's ONLY true friend and yet nothing EVER changes EVER! I am so tired of never having ANYTHING beyond the usual high fives about the same ole drag, and nobody thinking outside the box. Where is the debate or discussion? What the hell has the Democratic party done to deserve unquestioning and unflinching loyalty and devotion? Shouldn't they have to earn our votes? If not why not? Why not the best candidate beyond a title?
The videos are to give information and I doubt that most who have stopped by to read this thread have ever seen or heard what I posted. I doubt most people have ever seen or heard the people I put on there or just how bad things are around the world. If you have great, but I know for a fact that the discussion has been different than the norm which is good, if your talking politics!
Why is information a bad thing or obnoxious? Don't look at the thread or view the videos if you can't stand them, but last time I checked education is a good thing, and so is stopping Radical Islam. Like I told you before, I come from a military family and know many who are serving. Radical Islam has touched their lives, and some I know, have died fighting it. It is, relevent to me and others. People need a wake up call, because like I also said before, nothing matters if your dead. Dead is dead is dead. I think millions of lives are a good thing to save and the right people better be in office to do what is necessary!
That also might be why, that in the last three days that there have been more than 292 views of this thread. SOMEONE MUST THINK IT'S INTERESTING!
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Old 11-14-2007, 01:29 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakopataki View Post
Taking a stand for 35 yrs. great, as you should. It is that you always question or make harsh statements to me or others Skillet and there is no reason for you anger! (Wako),You made the statement to me first, and I addressed it, that simple.
Every election cycle everyone on this board decides ONLY what Democrat they will vote for because they are the NDN's ONLY true friend and yet nothing EVER changes EVER! I am so tired of never having ANYTHING beyond the usual high fives about the same ole drag, and nobody thinking outside the box. Where is the debate or discussion? What the hell has the Democratic party done to deserve unquestioning and unflinching loyalty and devotion? Shouldn't they have to earn our votes? If not why not? Why not the best candidate beyond a title?
The videos are to give information and I doubt that most who have stopped by to read this thread have ever seen or heard what I posted. I doubt most people have ever seen or heard the people I put on there or just how bad things are around the world. If you have great, but I know for a fact that the discussion has been different than the norm which is good, if your talking politics!
Why is information a bad thing or obnoxious? Don't look at the thread or view the videos if you can't stand them, but last time I checked education is a good thing, and so is stopping Radical Islam. Like I told you before, I come from a military family and know many who are serving. Radical Islam has touched their lives, and some I know, have died fighting it. It is, relevent to me and others. People need a wake up call, because like I also said before, nothing matters if your dead. Dead is dead is dead. I think millions of lives are a good thing to save and the right people better be in office to do what is necessary!
That also might be why, that in the last three days that there have been more than 292 views of this thread. SOMEONE MUST THINK IT'S INTERESTING!
read what i wrote please...THE LINKS ARE OBNOXIOUS...all these half blurred images...post a link...not the pictures...theres nothing wrong with posting a link to information....
i think your statement about "every election cycle: is a innaccurrate...this is the first ive seen of any campaign rhetoric and from your views and singling out of the democrats in your statement,im assumming youre a republican...if not my sincere apologies...historically,republicans have NOT been friends to Indian people or other minorities...fact is fact...
my personal opinion is,that no party serves the best intrests of Indian People.period.
what anger? you seem to be the one with anger...if my words sound harsh perhaps its because i dont agree with your own views and you take that as harshness?
my point in mentioning terrorism and who is a terrorist,is that to some of us,the US govt is the terrorist when it comes to Indian People...i call the involuntary sterilization of Indian women in the 70s an act of terrorism...the US of military forces and equipment in the 70s against Indian People an act of terrorism...shall i go on?
and my use of "Wako" was a short version of your name not a statement about your mental health...
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:06 PM   #127
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Skillet, my apologies, I misinterpreted, "Wako" because I have see the other spelled that way. I truly am sorry.
I didn't know if "youtube" worked that way, to where it would link to the exact video. I will look into that.
What I am trying to say, is that in every election cycle we go through, we don't talk about the best candidate, we talk about the same tired Democrats. In this thread and the Hillary thread started by Ogama you will find everyone complaining that the Democrat leaders have done nothing....again! That's my point. In the Hillary thread I at least showed videos that they are liars, because what they said about Saddam and WMD's and nukes, "is" what they are lying about today and running from to just blame Bush alone. Since terrorism is what I see, that we must get right, this time around, I believe we have to pick the best candidate possible.
Another thread further back by another member, is how Obama, Clinton, and I believe it was Edwards were no shows to speak to the indigenous people saying that it conflicted with their scheduals. In the Hillary thread, I put in a newspaper article that was about Hillary not speaking to NDN's when invited. My point is, is that Bill having gone to Pine Ridge and after seeing first hand the poverty on every level, still did nothing after the photo op and his would be president wife, just like the rest of them do not make it a priority, nor will they be able to get the votes needed by their OWN, ALREADY IN POWER WITH THEM, RIGHT NOW, to do anything! Why is it for those who are already in high public office THEY can't get together TODAY and start passing legislation to help? Why the empty promise of having to wait to be President to do something? Bill Clinton is the perfect example of vote for me vote for a change, and NOTHING! So my point is, here we go again, and again and again, excepting nothing but the same, yet they are rewarded with our votes and they DON'T HAVE TO EARN THEM, THEY ARE JUST HANDED OVER, AND THE DEMOCRATS LAUGH ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK OR IN THIS CASE THE WHITEHOUSE! That should make everyone of us angry since they have historically gotten our votes! They need to prove to us that they deserve that trust and they need to come and really put in the time, yet they won't beyond more talking points, nor will they defend us against an even bigger threat and a threat that you can see on the videos, that THEY SAID WERE REAL. The videos are real and what happens from now into the future is very real. We will be fighting here at home and else where for our freedoms, just as everyone in the videos will tell us. I wanted to show these people because they are of color, some former terrorists, brave women who had been enslaved that escaped, etc. It's not propaganda but a clear warning, that the part of the world they escaped from, is headed here, and that just like Nazi Germany it will like a cancer spread and already has. 911 was our wake up call and at least, the one good thing Bush really deserves credit for, is that there have been many foiled attempts since then, but none carried out. Things bigger than our 911 have been stopped throughout the world, but some won't be. Ask yourselves, why is it that the, "Nation of Islam" has come to NDN country to speak to our Nations? Why did Farrakhan speak to the Dine? This is why....http://www.iwchildren.org/unity7.htm NDN's they see as the perfect breeding ground for their extreme views, by preaching hate! Islam is here and a WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING! Notice it was in 1986 AND THERE WAS NO DUBYA IN POWER! It's been a long time coming and must be stopped!
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:15 PM   #128
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Okay, here are my own thoughts and words. It seems that Obama has had trouble keeping his documents in order. Now, why would Obama have a hard time? Ogamaobama, can you explain what happened?

Obama says he has no Illinois records By MIKE BAKER and CHRISTOPHER WILLS, Associated Press Writers
1 hour, 17 minutes ago



RALEIGH, N.C. - Barack Obama, who's been scolding Hillary Rodham Clinton for not hastening the release of records from her time as first lady, says he can't step up and produce his own records from his days in the Illinois state Senate. He says he hasn't got any.

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"I don't have — I don't maintain — a file of eight years of work in the state Senate because I didn't have the resources available to maintain those kinds of records," he said at a recent campaign stop in Iowa. He said he wasn't sure where any cache of records might have gone, adding, "It could have been thrown out. I haven't been in the state Senate now for quite some time."

Obama's statement that he has no papers from his time in the Illinois statehouse — he left in 2004 — stands in stark contrast to the massive Clinton file stored at the National Archives: an estimated 78 million pages of documents, plus 20 million e-mail messages, packed into 36,000 boxes. While any file from Obama's time in the state Senate would be far smaller, the idea that no papers exist at all is questioned by one historian.

Obama says he has no Illinois records - Yahoo! News
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:27 AM   #129
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This is a current statement on Iran from Amnesty International and the abuse they are noting. It again is going to show the brutality of the leader of Iran and how he is crushing his people, many who are favorable to the west. That will be their ultimate crime. Radical Islam stifles everything! When the Shaw left Iran, he left a more modern Iran, much more like the west, and after he was ousted, thanks to Jimmy Carter, it went back to the stone age and has never gotten better because the religious zealots won't allow it. I am still waiting to know how you talk and get results from lunitic zealouts that stone and murder children. I want to hear how Obama expects to change the mind of these mad men with talk. I want to hear how Obama or Clinton for that matter are going to change their ideology and make nice with them, when they are after World Domination. Why don't they believe, not only the words of these nuts but the actions of them as well? How can Obama even think that Iran won't take Iraq for more control of that region, at the cost of how many lives?
Hugo Chavez is doing the same, by crushing his people and any freedoms, even while his country can easily afford to take good care of his people, they are living in abject poverty and are facing what Iraians do daily. This is the report. I want to know Ogama. How can they be trusted with the greatest of all weapons, if they get it. You want them to get Nukes?

Iran

Human Rights Concerns
Amnesty International continues to document serious human violations including detention of human rights defenders and other prisoners of conscience, unfair trials, torture and mistreatment in detention, deaths in custody and the application of the death penalty. Iran has one of the highest number of recorded executions of any country in the world. Amnesty International is particularly concerned about the execution of children and individuals who were minors when their crimes were alleged to have taken place.

Amnesty International has reported extensively on a number of human rights abuses--including large-scale arrests, incommunicado detention and torture--have taken place in the context of recent unrest among the country's Arab and Kurdish and Azeri ethnic minorities. Demonstrations held to protest violations have been met with indiscriminate use of violence; several of the victims have been children. Religious minority communities--including Bahais and Muslims practicing Sufism, have also been faced increased persecution in recent months. In recent months, the Iranian authorities have been carrying out a widespread crackdown on civil society, targeting academics, women's rights activists, students, journalists and labor organizers. Hundreds of trade union activists--in particular activists from the Union of Workers of the Tehran and Suburbs Bus Company were arrested as part of measures to prevent planned strikes. Lawyers, web loggers and others who have spoken out against human rights violations have themselves been targeted for abuse. Read more below about how you can stop child executions and help human rights activists in Iran.

Iran: the last executioner of children

Iran is one of the only countries left in the world today that still executes children and child offenders (those accused of committing an offense when they were under 18 years of age). In a recent major report entitled, Iran: the last executioner of children, Amnesty international lists the names of the 71 child offenders known to be facing the death penalty, but notes that the total number could be much higher as many death penalty cases in Iran are believed to go unreported. Of the 24 child offenders recorded as having been executed since 1990, 11 were still under the age of 18 at the time of their execution.

Two child offenders have already been executed in 2007: Mohammed Mousavi, aged 19, was executed in April for a crime committed when he was 16, and Sa'id Qanbar Zahi, hanged on 27 May at Zahedan prison, was only 17 when he was sentenced to death with six other members of Iran's Baluchi minority two months earlier.

Iranian law allows for the execution of those convicted of murder and other violent offenses, of various political offenses, of drug trafficking, and for crimes against morality such as adultery. Amnesty International is deeply concerned about the unfairness of the legal proceedings that have resulted in the imposition of the death penalty in numerous cases.
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Old 11-22-2007, 03:42 AM   #130
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Smile Barack Obama in Manning, SC (Full Video)

Barack Obama in Manning, SC (Full Video)




Wakopataki watch this video...

We can't solve all our problems by picking arms. But when the time is needed, i belief we will. War cost lives, brings us to hate and to be hated. And That I don't want the people of the world to see us as a nation to solve problems with military force. i will so do my best to comment on all your questions. I been working hard and have no time to play. I wish I did. I believe Barack Obama would be the best man for the job for change for this country. He is a good man and he is honest.

Respect Love honor each other, as the elder said to me long ago, the ones that taught me a lot about me and my past, culture. i thank them today.
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Old 11-22-2007, 06:42 AM   #131
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Ogama, another video of Obama talking points ? I can understand that your short on time, but come on, there has to be something beyond another Obama commercial.
This is from Rueters today...more than 300,000 Iraqis, including over 600 Shi'ite leaders signed a petition against Iran for sowing disorder and for causing them to suffer, because of what the insurgents have done by killing them.
Now this would be another example of the terror that Iran is exporting AGAINST FELLOW MUSLIMS! They will kill fellow Muslims if they don't cower to the madmen from Iran. What are you missing? This petition has nothing to do with America or Americans, because they are exporting the terror to a neighboring country!! Does it dawn on you that this is what I referenced to the, "Killing Fields" and what will happen to Iraqis, because of Iran? We are there, to save their lives, and to say that Obama's idea of just letting them get killed as they get conquered is the, "Peaceful" thing to do is insane!! To say that's good for the region is insane! There was another story about Iran today saying that they will not be deterred from getting nukes....hmmm, I thought Imanutjob from Iran said they just wanted a nuclear plant for energy purposes. The story goes on and on and yet you refuse to really listen to those who have lived the terror as the victims, and refuse to hear, those who were once the terrorists! I really don't care if we are the most popular country on the planet, as long as we are doing the right things, and fighting, "Radical Islam" IS THE RIGHT THING! Obama is dead wrong and like I said Saddam had YEARS AND YEARS OF TALKS AND THE PEACEFUL TALKING FAILED! Threats failed before war, sanctions failed before war! Where were you all those years as he slaughtered and murdered his people, the same way the leader in Iran is doing to his own people today?
I WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR SUCH A MAN AS OBAMA, AND I REALLY WOULD LOVE TO HEAR A REAL THOUGHT, OUTSIDE A TALKING POINT!!
Oh, and while your at it, how do you show respect to monsters? How do you expect to get respect from monsters? If this country had not used Military force, unless the rest of the world approved, throughout history, we wouldn't have this country, nor would we have our freedoms! Do you remember that Hitler was elected
democratically by the German people? Does that mean that we were wrong to take him on because he was elected, or did we do the right thing by taking him out? Some might argue that we butted into Germany's business by going to war, because the German people elected him fair and square. History has taught us that we did the right thing! So tell me Ogama, what's the difference now?
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:45 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakopataki View Post
Do you remember that Hitler was elected
democratically by the German people? Does that mean that we were wrong to take him on because he was elected, or did we do the right thing by taking him out? Some might argue that we butted into Germany's business by going to war, because the German people elected him fair and square. History has taught us that we did the right thing! So tell me Ogama, what's the difference now?
um sorry ,this is incorrect ...hitler was NOT elected by the german people democratically or otherwise...hitler unsucessfully ran for elected office several times and was defeated...he was elected head of what became the nazi party by other party members and then was appointed chancellor by President Paul Von Hindenburg...hitler then proceeded to take over from there...but it is grossly unfair to place the blame on German people for hitlers rise to power and following actions,and it is totally inaccurate to say he was elected by the German people in a democratic election...
i realize you are very passionate about your beliefs but rhetoric and mis-information weaken and invalidate anything you say...
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Old 11-23-2007, 05:53 AM   #133
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Skillet your correct in what you said, as I didn't fully explain why I said Hitler was elected by the German people.
1933 is said and remembered to be, the year that Nazis were elected, and came to power.
In the 1933 Reichstag elections, the Nazi Party emerged as the largest political party by obtaining nearly 14 million votes for Hitler with the Nazi party, gaining 230 seats. It's because of that election that many say that Hitler and his Nazi Party were in fact, elected to power by the people of Germany. If that election had turned out differently and there hadn't been the need for a run off election with the then president, Hitler would not have been given the post of chancellor, and would not have been able to obtain full power upon the death of the then president.

This is another thought about Hitler being elected that is on the net. This is an example that I found:

The Democratic Peace Theory is a theory widely accepted among liberals and idealists alike, however I believe it to be erroneous. The main concept which started from the philosophy of Emmanuel Kant is that if every country was a democracy, there would be no more war because democracies don't attack other democracies.
A prime example of this would be when Germany elected Adolf Hitler democratically. Hitler was elected because he provided a solution to Germany's foreign policy mess (specifically the treaty of Versailles) after World War I. Because of the failed Weimar Republic, Germany's economy and social policy were almost non-existent. In order to bring about change, Hitler gave jobs to those out of work, and reversed the social and moral decadence of the Weimar Republic. All three, foreign policy, economic policy and social policy were factors in getting Hitler elected.
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The truth is, is that the German Nazi Party had wide approval of the German people as they had suffered through a very harsh economic time, in which there was great suffering amongst the people. Hitler promised them everything and they responded in kind, by giving him their support. Hitler went on to insure his power by passing laws that enabled him to have greater power, unlike previous presidents. He told and convinced the people that they were powerful and the chosen race, and that he would make them kings of the world and that they would rule that world. Just like the Radical Islamist of today!

White Supremacists believe and celebrate that election and Jews also see that as the election that put Hitler into power, leading to their demise.
I should have explained this prior, so my apologies, but I hope that one can read this and see the point of saying Hitler won the election.
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Old 11-23-2007, 09:09 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Wakopataki View Post
Skillet your correct in what you said, as I didn't fully explain why I said Hitler was elected by the German people.
1933 is said and remembered to be, the year that Nazis were elected, and came to power.
In the 1933 Reichstag elections, the Nazi Party emerged as the largest political party by obtaining nearly 14 million votes for Hitler with the Nazi party, gaining 230 seats. It's because of that election that many say that Hitler and his Nazi Party were in fact, elected to power by the people of Germany. If that election had turned out differently and there hadn't been the need for a run off election with the then president, Hitler would not have been given the post of chancellor, and would not have been able to obtain full power upon the death of the then president.

This is another thought about Hitler being elected that is on the net. This is an example that I found:

The Democratic Peace Theory is a theory widely accepted among liberals and idealists alike, however I believe it to be erroneous. The main concept which started from the philosophy of Emmanuel Kant is that if every country was a democracy, there would be no more war because democracies don't attack other democracies.
A prime example of this would be when Germany elected Adolf Hitler democratically. Hitler was elected because he provided a solution to Germany's foreign policy mess (specifically the treaty of Versailles) after World War I. Because of the failed Weimar Republic, Germany's economy and social policy were almost non-existent. In order to bring about change, Hitler gave jobs to those out of work, and reversed the social and moral decadence of the Weimar Republic. All three, foreign policy, economic policy and social policy were factors in getting Hitler elected.
************************************************** **********
The truth is, is that the German Nazi Party had wide approval of the German people as they had suffered through a very harsh economic time, in which there was great suffering amongst the people. Hitler promised them everything and they responded in kind, by giving him their support. Hitler went on to insure his power by passing laws that enabled him to have greater power, unlike previous presidents. He told and convinced the people that they were powerful and the chosen race, and that he would make them kings of the world and that they would rule that world. Just like the Radical Islamist of today!

White Supremacists believe and celebrate that election and Jews also see that as the election that put Hitler into power, leading to their demise.
I should have explained this prior, so my apologies, but I hope that one can read this and see the point of saying Hitler won the election.
again,your post contains inaccuracies...the election was in 1932,not 1933.and in the second election the nazi party lost seats altho they kept a majority....hitler rising to power with in his party and then being APPOINTED is hardly the same as hitler being elected in free elections...he was not elected or appointed president as you state,he was in fact appointed chancellor by hindenburg as i stated above....if you posted that what became the nazi party had support of a majority of people,then yes that would be accurate...but most of your posts regarding germany are in fact, not accurate...sorry
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Old 11-23-2007, 04:48 PM   #135
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Skillet, you are correct that the election for President was in 1932 and that was a typo by me to say 1933. I meant to type, 32. But, what I was attempting to point out is that 1933, that was the year that most claim that Hitler came to power, in an election by the German people.
Because, there was an election in March of 1933 which is referenced below in the story, and is the reason why although Hindenburge was President elect, many Germans will say that Hitler's reign started with Hindenburg's election in 1932 and continued in the election of 1933. The, "Enabling Act" sealed Germany's fate, before Hindenburg died. Hindenburg had ultimately given Hitler more power, than he held as president by letting him effectively run the country, as if he were president, because of Hitler's ability to change the laws even though Hindeburg was the sitting president. Remember Hindenburg died in 1934 and this is an accounting of things before his death.

In May 1932, Paul von Hindenburg sacked Bruening and replaced him with Franz von Papen. The new chancellor was also a member of the Catholic Centre Party and, being more sympathetic to the Nazis, he removed the ban on the SA. The next few weeks saw open warfare on the streets between the Nazis and the Communists during which 86 people were killed.

In an attempt to gain support for his new government, in July Franz von Papen called another election. Hitler now had the support of the upper and middle classes and the NSDAP did well winning 230 seats, making it the largest party in the Reichstag. However the German Social Democrat Party (133) and the German Communist Party (89) still had the support of the urban working class and Hitler was deprived of an overall majority in parliament.



Nazi Germany under the leadership of Hitler soon became a dictatorship. A dictatorship requires one person and one party to be in control of a nation and a climate of fear - this was provided by Himmler's SS. Personal freedom disappeared in Nazi Germany.

When Hitler was appointed chancellor on January 30th 1933, it was at the head of a coalition government. It was very clear in his mind that it would not remain this way for long. By the end of March 1933, he had acquired much greater powers than the former leading politicians of the Weimar Republic could ever have foreseen when they supported his appointment as chancellor. The death of President Hindenburg in August 1934, allowed him to combine both chancellor's and president's positions into one when Hitler became the Fuehrer and Reich Chancellor.

How did Germany descend so quickly into becoming a dictatorship?

When Hitler was appointed in January 1933, Germany was a democracy. Germany had fair elections; nobody had their right to vote abused; there were numerous political parties you could vote for etc. To pass a law, the Reichstag had to agree to it after a bill went through the normal processes of discussion, arguments etc. Within the Reichstag of January 1933, over 50% of those who held seats were against the Nazi Party. Therefore it would have been very unlikely for Hitler to have got passed into law what he wanted. Many saw Hitler as a fall-guy politician who would have to shoulder to blame if things got worse under his leadership.

Hitler had promised a general election for March 1933. This would have been, in his mind, the perfect opportunity for him to show all politicians who opposed him where the true loyalties lay in the German people. In fact, 1932 had shown Hitler that there was a possibility that support for the Nazis had peaked as their showing in the November 1932 election had shown. Anything other than a huge endorsement of Hitler and the Nazi Party would have been a disaster and a gamble which it is possible that Hitler did not want to take.

One week before the election was due to take place, the Reichstag building burned down. Hitler immediately declared that it was the signal for a communist takeover of the nation. Hitler knew that if he was to convince President Hindenburg to give him emergency powers - as stated in the Weimar Constitution - he had to play on the old president's fear of communism. What better than to convince him that the communists were about to take over the nation by force?

A known communist - Marianus van der Lubbe - was caught near the Reichstag building immediately after the fire had started. Those that arrested him - Nazi officials - claimed that Lubbe confessed to them that the fire was a signal to other communists to start the revolution to overthrow democracy in the country. Matches were allegedly found on van der Lubbe and those who arrested him claimed that he smelt of petrol.

Hitler asked Hindenburg to grant him emergency powers in view of the 'communist takeover'. Using the constitution, Hindenburg agreed to pass the Law for the Protection of the People and the State.

This law gave Hitler what he wanted - a ban on the Communists and Socialists taking part in an election campaign. The leaders from both parties were arrested and their newspapers were shut down. To 'keep the peace' and maintain law and order, the SA (the Brown Shirts) roamed the streets beating up those who openly opposed Hitler.

The election took place in March - though Hitler was convinced it would be the last. Hitler did not get the number of votes he wanted but he did get enough to get over a 50% majority in the Reichstag:

Communists 4.8 million votes
Social Democrats 7.2 million votes
Centre party 5.5 million votes
Nationalists 3.1 million votes
Other parties 1.4 million votes
Nazis 17.3 million votes
That 12 million people voted for what were effectively two outlawed parties is remarkable when the intimidation of voters is taken into account.

After the burning down of the Reichstag, politicians had nowhere to meet. The Kroll Opera House in Berlin was chosen. This was a relatively small round building - perfect for meetings. On March 23rd, elected officials were due to meet to discuss and vote on Hitler's Enabling Law.

As politicians neared the building, they found it surrounded by SS and SA thugs who tried to ensure that only Nazi or Nationalist politicians got into the building. The vote for this law was crucial as it gave Hitler a vast amount of power. The law basically stated that any bill only needed Hitler's signature and within 24 hours that bill would become law in Germany. With only Nazis and other right wing politicians inside the Kroll Opera House, the bill was quickly passed into law. The act gave Hitler what he wanted - dictatorial power. What he wanted would become law in Germany within 24 hours of his signature being put on paper.

On 7th April 1933, Nazi officials were put in charge of all local government in the provinces.

On May 2nd 1933, trades unions were abolished, their funds taken and their leaders put in prison. The workers were given a May Day holiday in return.

On July 14th 1933, a law was passed making it illegal to form a new political party. It also made the Nazi Party the only legal political party in Germany.

Germany became a nation of snoops. People were employed in each street, in each building complex etc. with the sole purpose of keeping an eye on others in their 'area' and reporting them to the authorities if they believed that something was amiss. The reputation of the Nazi police and the secret police lead by Himmler was such that no-one wished to cause offence. People kept their thoughts to themselves unless they wished to invite trouble. In this sense, Nazi Germany was a nation run on fear of the government. Hitler had created a one party state within months of being appointed chancellor.

His only remaining problem from his point of view was loyalty within his own party ranks. In June 1934, he overcame this with the Night of the Long Knives.


I hope this helps, you to understand what I am saying about Hitler and his rise to power and that the majority of the German people did in fact support him. The German people did in fact elect Hitler, not as president but by supporting his vision for the country and his Nazi party in 1933, all the while, Hindenburg was in office. Hitler was effectively in charge, in 1933, having achieved, dictatorial power although not being president. The German people had spoken.

But I don't want to lose focus as to the point of what I posted to Ogama, the same question stands and I would appreciate an answer to this and anything else he has not answered on any level.
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Old 11-23-2007, 04:58 PM   #136
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I remember being told to keep the topics to, the weather and sports. Keep politics and religion to the warfield. In fact, we have an account with Nexcom and if it wasn't for the wars, our business would be a bit lower. I'm at work right now, getting everything into the system for the Commissaries.
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:01 AM   #137
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Post Barack Obama Taking Our Government Back

how he plans to make government more accountable to the American Citizen. Speaks the truth on a lot of subjects. As native Americans we must get big companies out of our government and foucus on real issues and problems in this country. As I can see he is out to help all Americans.


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Old 11-24-2007, 02:16 AM   #138
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Smile Waging the War that Has to Be Won

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Old 11-24-2007, 02:19 AM   #139
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Obama Says Real War is in Pakistan

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Old 11-24-2007, 02:23 AM   #140
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Can you guys who support Obama do something more than just put up his politcal commercials and actually talk or debate? It's just Obama fluff and NO substance, beyond a cleverly put together commercial by the people he pays to do that sort of thing. Are you Obamabots or real?
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