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Old 10-24-2007, 12:45 AM   #161
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JD! All OK around there w/ the fires? I was thinking about you, when I saw it on the news here.
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:31 AM   #162
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JD! All OK around there w/ the fires? I was thinking about you, when I saw it on the news here.
We're in good shape. We're about 50 miles west of the closest fire. Bad thing is that about 2,000 homes have been destroyed in 14 fires.

Pray for those poor folks.
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:55 AM   #163
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We're in good shape. We're about 50 miles west of the closest fire. Bad thing is that about 2,000 homes have been destroyed in 14 fires.

Pray for those poor folks.
Yes, I heard of it too, and I thought of you JD...
last fire isn't that long ago, right?
50 miles west.... where comes the wind from?
Again you're in my prayers....and those poor folks also.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:50 AM   #164
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We're in good shape. We're about 50 miles west of the closest fire. Bad thing is that about 2,000 homes have been destroyed in 14 fires.

Pray for those poor folks.
been thinkin of you as well. And praying for all the people who are affected by the fire. I have a x bro in law that go's all over fighinig fires he may be there now.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:55 PM   #165
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heres a good example,from just a few years ago, of just how dangerous these plastic medicine goofballs can be...

2 seeking spiritual enlightenment die in new-age sweat lodge


they read a few books,take notes and highlight significant portions, maybe dogear a page or two or what ever and think they know what theyre doing. id like to be there when they explain just how well they knew what they were doing to families of the people who died.
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:10 PM   #166
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these people are everywhere

Don't Pay to Pray!

'Sweat lodge' death inquest to open - National - theage.com.au
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:10 AM   #167
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Thanks FM--for sharing that. I knew of a few of them and have heard about others. I'm always forwarning people not to get involved with stuff like that. There are people who know how to do these ceramonies--but you can't get that out of a book. Just because someone says that they can do it doesn't mean that they can.

Here's one for you: I know of a man (he is Indian, not new-age, and has been going to lodges for many years). This man came to me and said that he was running a lodge one week, it was someone elses and he said that he had been give permission to do this, the other person was out of town. I had thought about going as a supporter (not to go in), but then changed my mind. After it was over and he was on his way home--he got stopped by the police, his car got impounded and he was taken to jail on some outstanding warrents for the weekend. He knew better, but still did it. No one was hurt during that one, they were lucky. I found out later that he had not been given the permission to do that and that the person who was out of town knew nothing of him having that ceramony. This was someone who had been going for many years, but then there are those Idiots who think that they can read a book and do it and that's when all H*** breaks loose.
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:14 AM   #168
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Flutemaker, the guy is gone already. Why are you beating a dead horse? Just to show your heart? As far as anyone knows he wasn't selling sweats, so the old news stories are not relevant.

Every time I go to a powwow I am charged an admission price, and then the powwow starts with prayer. Isn't that selling spirituality? Just asking.
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:47 AM   #169
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Flutemaker, the guy is gone already. Why are you beating a dead horse? Just to show your heart? As far as anyone knows he wasn't selling sweats, so the old news stories are not relevant.

Every time I go to a powwow I am charged an admission price, and then the powwow starts with prayer. Isn't that selling spirituality? Just asking.
uh i think you just showed your heart,why in the bleep would you say somthing now.................................................. ...walks off knowing that some just dont understand
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:47 AM   #170
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Because I think the admission price is misleading to the "public" who are invited. It makes them think they are going to some "show."

I'd rather just donate at the gate like any good guest, whether money, work, supplies or whatever. I'd always donate more than the admission price that is charged.

Works out OK though cause it saves my money to spend at the vendor's booths. Always go home broke from a powwow--that's me.

Really didn't mean to offend. I'm just tired of explaining to clueless people at powwows that it isn't some d*** show just cause they paid to get in. They don't get it.

Peace to all, especially flutemaker. I play flute, and may play one of his!
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:30 AM   #171
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On second thought, I'll probably stop going to powwows. I'm not coming to this forum any more either. Bye.
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Old 10-25-2007, 12:38 PM   #172
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I rarely go to a pow-wow where I have to pay, unless its a benifit pow-wow or I know the $$ go's for a good cause. And If I get a notice that a pow-wow wants $$ and I dont think it go's for anything that I want my money to go for, its simple I dont go.
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:14 PM   #173
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2line---thanks for what you said--I was thinking the same thing.

As it was explained to me by my Elders: A pow wow is a show, it's a gathering of indian people and the dancing brings people in and the vendors make money (even if they don't charge at a door), so where do you get that anything having anything to do with money is spirituality? Yes, there is a prayer said, and many times there are other prayers said and Honorings, but that is because that is the Indian way--we pray all the time, not just once a day or once a week.

And this guy may be gone, but how many other's are there out there and some may even be looking at this very thread and many need to know what's what and what could and has happened. We share with each other. That's the point to this info. (Just my opinion)
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:49 PM   #174
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Flutemaker, the guy is gone already. Why are you beating a dead horse? Just to show your heart? As far as anyone knows he wasn't selling sweats, so the old news stories are not relevant.

Every time I go to a powwow I am charged an admission price, and then the powwow starts with prayer. Isn't that selling spirituality? Just asking.
dead horse...dead sweat participants....no big right? yes big..way big and no not the same as admission to a powwow where the cost of the venue and a whole bunch of other stuff has to be covered. i never said 'he' had been running sweats, what i had said was this is just how dangerous these plastic medicine people can get several people have died over the years. not counting the ones who didnt make the nightly news so yeah that is relevant. 'he' may be gone, but the plague of plastic aint
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:24 PM   #175
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The few powwows I have been to have been donation only. and thisis not a dead horse. it was about other people like him . HELLO
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:14 PM   #176
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On second thought, I'll probably stop going to powwows. I'm not coming to this forum any more either. Bye.
On the off- chance you are still reading... most of the time when an admission is charged it's to help pay for the expenses a powwow has. If it's in a building there's usually a rather large overhead because of the amount of electricity used for any event and you have to keep in mind, people who rent rooms or buildings are doing so for profit. Also there's the cost of any equipment needed like microphones and speakers... if it's a contest powwow, then prize money.

There are other countless expenditures for these but overall no one is putting them on for profit...

And to answer is it selling spirituality to charge admission and then say a prayer.... uh no. Is it the same if you go to church and pay tithes? No... So why ask such a question?

Yes they are more than just a spectator show but a powwow is'nt a "spiritual" or "holy" event. Especially not a contest powwow. They are communal gatherings with some spiritual aspects.

It's just as bad for people to come thinking they are paying to get in to see some kinda of sacred ceremony done in public as it is a dog and pony show. And you don't have to explain this to anyone.. just tell them to pay attention to the arena director. Most powwows, no matter how old they are explain many aspects of what's going on...
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:19 PM   #177
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i never said 'he' had been running sweats, what i had said was this is just how dangerous these plastic medicine people can get several people have died over the years. not counting the ones who didnt make the nightly news so yeah that is relevant. 'he' may be gone, but the plague of plastic aint

You did'nt have to say he was running sweats.. most of these guys start out as "psychics" and end up selling ceremonies and running sweats and often their own cockamamie versions of "psycho sexual" crap as well. Once they get bitten by the money bug because there are so many buying, they can't seem to help themselves.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:37 PM   #178
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And to answer is it selling spirituality to charge admission and then say a prayer.... uh no. Is it the same if you go to church and pay tithes? No... So why ask such a question?
Got that right!
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:57 PM   #179
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well here's the link to that article..it is kinda long so..but it interesting...

IndigenousNewsNetwork@topica.com issue 999

plastic shamans by: Andrekar
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"I don't know why you never tried to tell me I was the one for you, I'm telling you my love is true and you're the only one for me -NC

I'm not crazy I'm jus a little impaired I know right now you don't care but soon enough you're gonna think of me and how I used to be I'm not crazy jus a little unwell...-matchbox 20
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:20 PM   #180
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well here's the link to that article..it is kinda long so..but it interesting...

IndigenousNewsNetwork@topica.com issue 999

plastic shamans by: Andrekar
I don't think that's a link , but an e-mail address.....
Try this :
Topica Email List Directory
You will have to scroll down a bit to find it.......Plastic Shamans....
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care

Last edited by wardancer; 10-25-2007 at 10:24 PM..
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