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Old 05-02-2001, 09:49 PM   #21
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SDS,-My wife got one for me that is 18" red deer hair in/out and I think it was around $200-$250...........M
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Old 05-03-2001, 03:21 PM   #22
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I bought a 22" roach with 10" hair in the front from Buffalo Chips and I'm not very happy with it. I don't know who tied it, but they didn't sort the hair very well. Here is the problem that I have with it, I paid premium money for an awesome first class roach. Yes it is big, but when you look at it close, the hair wasn't sorted well at all. Some of the hair was even tied upside down with the root end pointing out. I love a roach which gives that beautiful "halo" look but with shorter hair tied in (to add fullness, according to them), there is no halo at all! I have a nice large roach, but when I'm paying a lot for long 10" hair, don't you try to sneak in the short stuff to make it look thicker. I had to have this roach due to a dance comitment, and did not have time to send it back. I did call them and they said to return it because it was satisfaction guaranteed, but like I said, I didn't have time. I was very disappointed and will not buy roaches from them again or recommend them to anyone. When yu see me at the dance, I'm the guy with the big roach, that should look BETTER!
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Old 05-03-2001, 04:51 PM   #23
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Paul Daniels has been tying for Buffalo Chips. I do not Know if this has changed in the last year or so. Sometimes other people are contracted outto make Roaches. But I was there when Thom Meyers asked Paul to tye for him a couple of years ago. David Clayton tyes for Crazy Crow and sometimes other traders.


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Old 05-04-2001, 02:47 AM   #24
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Nativemom

Why do ask?
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Old 05-04-2001, 08:40 PM   #25
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I was wondering that too. Nowadays it is hard to find GOOD crafts people to do the stuff you can't do yourself. If someone is native then thats all the better, but to me it's getting a quality product that matters. If a man came here from Botswana and learned how to tie the most beautiful roaches in the world, and set up a business and worked hard to make a living for him and his family, I would love to have one. So many people in the powwow world are exclusive of other groups of people. No I'm not native, no I don't live on a rez, but I love this stuff and I wish more people would look at my heart rather than my skin. Some of the best Osage style ribbonmakers are white,so does that mean that they shouldn't make ribbons, or should they continue to carry on a crafts tradition in hopes that one day they can pass this craft back to a young native person so that young person can carry on the tradition of their people! :D
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Old 05-08-2001, 02:52 PM   #26
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I ask because it seems like more and more, we natives are losing our culture and we are starting to look towards non Indians for our regalia and other cultural items. I am asking because I think that we need more Natives making not only roaches, but all items pertaining to our culture. I am not trying to bash on non Indians or anything. I just don't like seeing all of these Natives going to non Natives for their outfits. I understand that not everyone knows how to bead, sew, or what have you, but LEARN!! I didn't know how to do any of that a few years ago, but I had no choice to learn because I had children. I have two beautiful sons who like to dance, so I taught myself. That's all....
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Old 05-08-2001, 08:31 PM   #27
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Dear Nativemom, I understand what you mean. I love doing craftwork, and it is great when you see more people doing the craftwork of their heritage. (I guess my ancestors are getting left out here too) as I would rather do beadwork or ribbonwork than about anything else. I truly wish I had known a good Native roach maker when I needed to have a roach made. I believe that Paul Daniels made my roach but I don't know for certain, and it isn't made with the quality that I have come to expect from craftsmen, or craftswomen. They say you get what you pay for but in this case I paid a lot to be disappointed. As I said before, I had commited to a big event, and every thing I had was new, and I didn't want to wear my old roach. I can tie a better roach (no kidding here) than I purchased from a dealer, but I was short on time and bought one expecting a thing of beauty. What was described to me on the phone and what I got were two different things. I guess some lessons in life are harder than others, and sometimes that is a good thing because you remember those lessons better!
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Old 05-09-2001, 12:37 AM   #28
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SHand

Your experience has nothing to do with the color of the skin of the roach maker. You either got bad advice or made a uniformed choice. I have seen the work of as many native roach makers as I have non-natives and there is about an equal number of both that make JUNK and are just wasting good hair. There are a few good roach makers in both races, but the problem is they are always very busy and if you want good work then you must get in line and wait, and in many cases pay well too for the quality. You just ran into an unscrupulous dealer in my opinion.

Nativemom

I can understand your opinion though I don't agree. The way you put it, it sounds like you would rather buy a roach from a native even if it happened to be poorly constructed over a well made one if it happened to have been made by a non-native roach maker. I can understand supporting a native craftworker. In many cases they are trying to support his family, but who is to say that the non-native craft worker isn't doing the same. I tend to agree with SHand's earlier statement and I too would rather buy good quality work based only on the work and not the DNA of the craftworker. But to assist you in your native only query, here are my recommendations based only on the quality of their work and nothing more.

Jim Mitchell - he is Ojibwa I believe - from New Jersey last I heard.
The Street's - Pawnee I think - no clue how to locate them but I could probably find something.

Beyond that I have heard there is a family out of Canada that travels the northern plains circuit selling roaches, but I know nothing more than that of them. I was told their work is good, but I have never seen it before.
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Old 05-10-2001, 10:40 AM   #29
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Powwowbum,

My post was not meant to be taken the way you took it. I do not care who makes better roaches, what I was saying that natives need to start making their own outfits. I am not trying to be racist (I feel that is what you are implying). I know of one good roachmaker who is nonIndian, Steve Eagles. He is a good friend of my husband and me. It is not an issue of which race is a better roachmaker, my point was that natives need to start making their own things. And if you really want to get a hold of a Street, I can help.
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Old 05-11-2001, 02:29 AM   #30
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Nativemom

I wasn't trying to imply you are racist I do not know you, but your statement "I don't like seeing all of the Natives going to non Natives for their outfits" , does seem to give that impression a bit, even in the context of the rest of the post.

The point I obviously failed to make in my post was that when I do buy items I prefer to buy the best made piece no matter who made it. Also that I do not see anything wrong with folks buying finished pieces. I too pride myself on the fact that I make most all my own dance clothes and other things, but there are some craft skills that I would rather purchase because I know others that are more skilled at them than I. (fingerweaving and silverwork are a couple of skills I do not have time to master, and will purchase when needed) I too know folks that buy their whole dance outfits as well, but hey if they have the money, more power to them. I know from personal experience that my stuff means more to me because I have made it myself (or friends have given me pieces they have made). Frankly I agree that more people should learn crafts but some folks just have no natural ability to do craftwork and they need to buy a finished work.

As for Steve Eagles, I do not know if he ties roaches or not I just know that I do tie and sell them wholesale to other vendors like him. In fact he has purchased roaches from me in the past for resale, so if you are referring to what he sells through his business they may have been made by him and may not. That is just what I was discussing in the start of this topic, that vendors are seldom the ones making the roaches they sell. A few of the people I listed in that post are the ones that supply the vast majority of the vendors around the US (and Canada to a certain degree).
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