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Old 02-20-2001, 10:53 PM   #21
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Can we go back to the discussion now?
(Your skunk is in the mail Ace-I decided not to wait, thought you might need it now).

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[This message has been edited by 1dancing white wolf (edited February 20, 2001).]
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Old 02-20-2001, 11:20 PM   #22
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In ancient times we had clans the cheyenne that is. But everyone now associates with the warrior societies. I know of only a few elders who remember the clans. I am from the eaters and the suhtai. The clans evolved into bands and became the 10 bands of the cheyenne. We had funny names for our clans like the scabby bunch, eaters, hair rope people, stuff like that. lol
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Old 02-20-2001, 11:47 PM   #23
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She:kon Sewakwekon:
Way back to Cricket!!! First of all I am not an expert on clans or anything else but I will share what little I know. With the Iroquois there are names that are held by each clan and those names are continuously used. If some one passes away their name is "held" by the clan mother until it is used again. With some of the Ojibway there are family names that were associated with clans but not many. This may or may not have been due to the "registering" of families that took place by the government. Hope that helps. Onen.

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Old 02-21-2001, 02:21 PM   #24
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Hmmmm! It seems word travels fast around here. I glad to know that we are leaving good impressions in the minds and hearts of the people across Indian Country.
1dancing white wolf, thanks for the recommendation. Ace, thanks for the PM and the encouragement. I really needed that as a new up and coming songwriter and singer.

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Old 02-21-2001, 03:26 PM   #25
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Anytime, bro!! http://www.powwows.com/ubb/smilies/wink.gif
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Old 02-22-2001, 12:24 AM   #26
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Secrethillsinger,
Ace told me about ya'll. I saw that your drum was at the Durham pow wow and asked for an opinion-it was a good one. Come up to Va. and share the beat with us, okay?

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Old 02-22-2001, 01:07 AM   #27
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Hey Ace! I've posted a topic under Southern Singing. If you don't mind, check it out if you've got time.

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Old 02-22-2001, 02:01 PM   #28
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Greetings group. I haven't been around here for awhile (because of some nasty stuff on this Board awhile back), but I popped in to have a look. When I saw Tree's posting about clans, I had to check it out. (You see, Tree is "post Handsome Lake" in his ways; I am "pre Handsome Lake", so I keep an eye on what he posts" when he is talking for "all Ho-de-no-shon-i". http://www.powwows.com/ubb/smilies/wink.gif )

I had to laugh about "clans" though. When I was growing up and "getting educated", clan affiliations never came up so I never knew what clan I was tied to.

A number of years after my Grandmother (and teacher) died, we were just wrapping up a big spring ceremony and I took a walk down to the river to do my obligations. I was standing at the river's edge with my offering in my hand, missing my Grandmother, when I wondered to myself what clan we were. Just as the thought went through my mind, a young beaver swam right past my feet, slapped his tail, and went under the water. I made my offering and went back to the camp.

Back at camp, I ran into the Elder who looked after that place and said to him that it was so nice to see beaver in that river. He said, "There is no beaver here. Hasn't been beaver in this river for generations." I smiled. I knew.

A number of years later, I had just made contact with a lady elder "back home" when she asked me about my clan affiliation. I told her it was beaver and she began to tell me all about myself. Now, she had never met me and knew nothing about me but she described my personality, my likes and dislikes, my attitudes, and my work habbits better than my best fried could have. She wasn't off base on one single point. (But what the heck; nothing the elders do is ever surprising.)

Go figure!?
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Old 02-22-2001, 02:38 PM   #29
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That's a great story, Dianne - thanks for sharing!!
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Old 02-22-2001, 07:35 PM   #30
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She:kon, Sewakwekon:
Well you know what they say about those "old" Senecas, huh Dianne??? ha ha ha. Hey Handsome Lake was one of your people, you musta been playing hooky when they were trying to teach you things while growing up. ha ha ha. Otherwise you would believe like I do!!! ha ha ha(watch the feathers fly now folks) ha ha ha Just kidding. I'll let you speak for the Haudenosaunee and I'll just continue to speak for all the Rotinonsionni! ha ha ha
Just kidding. Beaver clan huh??? That's what makes you so wise! Hmmmmm. I knew there must be something to that. ha ha ha Take care Onen.

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Old 02-22-2001, 09:35 PM   #31
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Ok back earlier, someone said something about the nobility of the houses in Egypt, but that is'nt exact...in fact, the royal blood actually went thru the female since you might not know for certain who your father is, but you always know who your mother was!...learned that from somewhere but darned if I can remember where.
Also someone asked about the Eagle clan...don't know if this applies to the question but might be educational to say the least...Not all the 6 nations of iroquois have an eagle clan...I only know of one and I think that is the Seneca, although I might be wrong there too...need to check on that.
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Old 02-22-2001, 11:16 PM   #32
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Bear, the Haudenosaunee have no Eagle Clan.

~Sekon~
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Old 02-22-2001, 11:40 PM   #33
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Hey Rei -
wanted to pop in on that comment about siouns in your area of southeast. for you, i present the Waccamaw - living in the far off distant land of southeastern N.C. They are sioun speakers from the east, i even know a few that live near youhttp://www.powwows.com/ubb/smilies/smile.gif
Anyway there are a few others that you should know, specifically in VA: the Monacan in Amherst and Saponis originally in neighborhood of C'ville, before removal.
these are some of the existing tribes, there are more - now and before decimation. whenever you want a list, just ask....
- itco
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Old 02-28-2001, 12:04 AM   #34
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Does anyone know about the clan system among the Choctaw? I am Choctaw donot know my clan but would like too. Realize it may not be possible. Thought I would ask worse someone could say is can't help.
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Old 02-28-2001, 12:18 AM   #35
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Hey, it's nice to know that we are not the only ones left. Especially since we are a small tribe. As I said in an earlier post, I was not sure. And too, there are some peole who confuse siouan, with Sioux. 2 totally different critters. So the Saponi are siouan too? I guess that makes me, Ace, and Sectrethillsinger distant cousins then somewhere on the tree of evolution. Thanks for the info. And you and I also-cool!

But I am displaced-the Catawba Res. is in S.C. and our people were at one time in both N.C. and S.C.. There is a small group here in VA I am told but I have only met one Catawba that lives in VA other than my family. I am not a native of VA but have been here for 25 years.
(edited to add more info)
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[This message has been edited by 1dancing white wolf (edited February 28, 2001).]
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Old 02-28-2001, 02:03 PM   #36
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Rie - FYI


ENCYCLOP∆DIA BRITANNICA

Siouan languages

North American Indian family of languages that, with the Iroquoian and Caddoan language families, constitutes the Macro-Siouan language phylum. This phylum is, after the Algonquian, the largest native American linguistic phylum north of Mexico. Siouan includes at least five language groups: those of the Gulf Coast region (including Biloxi, Ofo, Tutelo), the upper Missouri River region (including Hidatsa, Crow), the northern plains (including Dakota, or Sioux proper), the central plains (Omaha, Osage, Ponca, Kansa, Quapaw), and the Great Lakes (including Winnebago). The extinct Catawba language of the Carolinas is sometimes classified as a Siouan language.

I got this from the internet today - boy are they confused, saying that your tribe is extinct!!! The Catawbas just gained fed recog, what, in the last 5 or so years?? And this is in the encyclopedia britannica folks!!

Anyway - my reason for posting was to show you that there are alot more tribes out there that are considered Siouan, according to the Encyclopedia Brittanica. http://www.powwows.com/ubb/smilies/wink.gif



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Old 02-28-2001, 02:34 PM   #37
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And to bring the point closer to home, check out the tribes of Virginia to see the Siouan link: http://www.mdc.net/~cherokee/virginia.txt

There's alot more out there, girlie girl. http://www.powwows.com/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif
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Old 02-28-2001, 02:42 PM   #38
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Ace, We as a tribe are not extinct, but the last speaker of our languange, Red Thunder Cloud, died in 1996. So, except for what we have on tape, our language is very much extinct. It makes me sad really, I have 2 cassettes with Catawba songs and some spoken phrases along with some of our stories that are about 15 years old or so. (The actual taping could older, I'm not sure.) But for all intents and purposes we speak Engish as our native tongue.

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Old 02-28-2001, 03:49 PM   #39
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Ace, you sure do some fantastic research! http://www.powwows.com/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif All of what you had found is true according to the things I researched and found four or five years ago and the things I obtained from the Elders back home. BTW, there is more out there for those of you wanna do some research. If anyone is in the neighborhood of Greenville, NC, stop by the campus of ECU and take a stroll to the North Carolina Collections on the 4th floor of Joyner Library. There is a lot more resources like the one Ace made reference to! http://www.powwows.com/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

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Old 02-28-2001, 04:41 PM   #40
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And......
Theres more! the Haliwa Saponi of present day are distant relations of the the past bunch in Va. However, the tribe is made up of a variety of older groups including the Gingaskin, Nancemond, Tuscarora, Tutelo, Eno, among others. it should be noted that this group includes Iroquois, Algonquian, and Sioun language families. Formerly at odds, these groups came together as VA/NC indian populations dwindled and there were strength in numbers. although 7 groups are thought of as the original tribes comprising Haliwa Saponi, reality probably makes the number much larger to include any piedmont/tidewater indian groups banding together in late 1600 - 1700's. Nearby fort christiana offered many services to groups far and wide and was an early hang out for trade, liquor, and protection. other gropus such as the saura, haw, ocaneechee, chowanoke, nottoway, and meherrin also ran tight in those circles. Recognition in 65' gave the Haliwa a name, drawn from HALIfax and WArren counties with Saponi being considered a reflection of most of the groups heritage. However ther is never an indian Va/NC that does not debate and conflict. Many felt the Tuscarora direction was stronger and wanted the tribe to reflect that end of the descendancy. then there is the Eno Ocannechee / ocaneechee saponi? bunch and indians of persons county and on and on and on. there is alot out there to view, consider, and enjoy as a reflection of our people.

Ps - english french and spanish are Romance languages but i think looking at these groups as distant cousins may be off. Indians have a much richer linguistic heritage, more complicated, and spread apart by many more years than Europe. Saponi and Catawba are both Sioun families, but not related in the sense of people. unless you pining at relations many thousands of years old.
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