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Old 12-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Tristann View Post
If you see me somewhere and you have a problem with me wearing anything, dancing to something, or living my life according to how I was taught, then you come vent your hate on me and I guarantee I will throw on you an *** whuppin' that will take alot of medicine and time for you to forget!
Sounds like some pent up hate?
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:41 PM   #182
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Everyone does!
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:18 PM   #183
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My own question.

Isn't pushing out non-natives going against what the ancestors taught? When Europeans first showed up they were taught and had many things shared with them. It was on the Europeans to not accept that gift with grace. Even though many bad things have happened to Natives, and continue too, if you close the door on peoples faces when they want to learn about your ways it is the same as the Europeans closing the door on you. Going back through my father's line I am as mixed as mixed can get. I have Native and Black and White in me. In each match someone had to accept another's culture and shared it with love. When one wants to learn of another's ways why not share. Why not open your arms and show how beautiful your culture is? When I lived in Japan I found that they wanted to share that culture with me. I am not Asian at all, but I love and respect the Japanese and their culture and I study their language. Most American's want whatever culture they are dealing with to be like American's. So when you find someone that is different and kind hearted, that wants to learn from you why not teach? Open doors and heal hearts that have for so long not trusted? As in any relationship there are those that will hurt you and take advantage of you, but will you allow yourself to go throughout life without love? No. The heart heals and breaks open like good soil. Friendships and understanding grow and nourish those who are starving. There are colleges now that teach different Native languages. Would you keep that too? Or let it be taught and let it grow so it doesn't die? Don't be the same way that the early Europeans were. Don't hold on to a gift and hide it's light.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:50 PM   #184
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[QUOTE=Kmcain;1594057]Isn't pushing out non-natives going against what the ancestors taught? When Europeans first showed up they were taught and had many things shared with them. It was on the Europeans to not accept that gift with grace. Even though many bad things have happened to Natives, and continue too, if you close the door on peoples faces when they want to learn about your ways it is the same as the Europeans closing the door on you. Going back through my father's line I am as mixed as mixed can get. I have Native and Black and White in me. In each match someone had to accept another's culture and shared it with love. When one wants to learn of another's ways why not share. Why not open your arms and show how beautiful your culture is? When I lived in Japan I found that they wanted to share that culture with me. I am not Asian at all, but I love and respect the Japanese and their culture and I study their language. Most American's want whatever culture they are dealing with to be like American's. So when you find someone that is different and kind hearted, that wants to learn from you why not teach? Open doors and heal hearts that have for so long not trusted? As in any relationship there are those that will hurt you and take advantage of you, but will you allow yourself to go throughout life without love? No. The heart heals and breaks open like good soil. Friendships and understanding grow and nourish those who are starving. There are colleges now that teach different Native languages. Would you keep that too? Or let it be taught and let it grow so it doesn't die? Don't be the same way that the early Europeans were. Don't hold on to a gift and hide it's light.[/QUOTEu


You say bad things happened and are still happening...and in the same breath, you say don't hold onto your gift and hide the light???? Are you serious???
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


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Old 02-21-2014, 07:09 PM   #185
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sigh- quite frankly my own father taught me to never place yourself anywhere unless invited. And expect nothing. Wait until it's given. And I am non native. So I can't agree that this disrespectful pushy attitude fully describes all "white people." Also, I've never been asked to leave, go away or anything to that affect while in community with native folks. I have always found them to be extremely kind and giving and generous. usually.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:44 PM   #186
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Even though many bad things have happened to Natives, and continue too, if you close the door on peoples faces when they want to learn about your ways it is the same as the Europeans closing the door on you.


In essence it sounds like you are saying "why don't you just get over it and love everybody?" While this is admirable sentiment, I ask you how? That is like asking an amputee to grow a new limb and run with it. It's like knocking on someones door to talk about deep spiritual matters so you can leave feeling better about yourself for saving a lost soul when you have no idea who that person is.

What's more, it's kind of a leap to assume a person is "living a life without love" in this context.

Last edited by gilisi; 02-23-2014 at 04:58 AM.. Reason: too much personal drama lol
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:29 PM   #187
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Everyone does!
You speaking for me,,, hope not,, hate is a strong word!

We have no right to judge,, yet many of you are wasting your time in the game of backstabbing and hating??? Seems to me a rather poor way of spending your quality time here on mother earth. That's one reason why I've been absent so long!!! In comparrison I've helped a soul to cross over to the other side with pride and not bitterness. Been doing a lot of soul searching,,, as chief Joseph once put it,,, don't judge me till you've walked in my mocs,,, trust me I WILL NOT JUDGE EVER AS I'VE NOT WALKED IN YOUR MOCS, so in respect don't judge me either,,,just saying!!
To Zeke,,, miss you! Keep up the great work!
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Stand behind our troops or stand IN FRONT of them.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:01 PM   #188
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I have dealt with this issue quite a bit and in fact joined this forum in order to approach it. I have two children who are native, were allowed into the tribal headstart program based on the fact that the admin were familiar with their dad (non-enrolled native). In fact, one of the admins of the tribal program was their dad's first cousin.

So here's our situation...dad was never enrolled, his mom was never enrolled. For whatever reason, they didn't bother with getting enrolled, though mom's sisters did, and all her sisters' kids.

Now mom is dead, and I have no contact with the kids' dad. Ultimately, we moved across the state.

Now my children, ages 10 and 11, are involved with our local Indian Education program...a wonderful cultural program that welcomes all children regardless of whether or not they are enrolled with any tribe or even affiliated with a tribe. They teach them about the culture, they host a pow wow, they dance, they drum, they make regalia together.

My children look native, because they are. I am not. But they aren't enrolled, and I have no close contacts, aside from their ENROLLED HALF BROTHERS, who at 15 and 16 are not old enough to really be counted as mentors for the kids..and who are not really knowledgeable about the culture at any rate, despite the fact that they are enrolled kids being raised on the reservation.

So where does that put me? My children have been after me to help them accumulate/make their own regalia for 2 years now. They drum, they dance, they're participating in our local powwow and they are dancing at the talent show. I don't know anything about their ancestors...I'm not even sure which tribes their father descends from. I've seen the enrollment papers of the half brothers (who I have helped to raise) but that was many years ago, and I don't remember...

But my kids want to dance, and they want to develop ties with their dad's people...even if their dad can't/won't help them.

So are we considered "whites"? Are we not wanted, because I'm white?

Where does that leave us?
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:49 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by AllieBaba View Post
I have dealt with this issue quite a bit and in fact joined this forum in order to approach it. I have two children who are native, were allowed into the tribal headstart program based on the fact that the admin were familiar with their dad (non-enrolled native). In fact, one of the admins of the tribal program was their dad's first cousin.

So here's our situation...dad was never enrolled, his mom was never enrolled. For whatever reason, they didn't bother with getting enrolled, though mom's sisters did, and all her sisters' kids.

Now mom is dead, and I have no contact with the kids' dad. Ultimately, we moved across the state.

Now my children, ages 10 and 11, are involved with our local Indian Education program...a wonderful cultural program that welcomes all children regardless of whether or not they are enrolled with any tribe or even affiliated with a tribe. They teach them about the culture, they host a pow wow, they dance, they drum, they make regalia together.

My children look native, because they are. I am not. But they aren't enrolled, and I have no close contacts, aside from their ENROLLED HALF BROTHERS, who at 15 and 16 are not old enough to really be counted as mentors for the kids..and who are not really knowledgeable about the culture at any rate, despite the fact that they are enrolled kids being raised on the reservation.

So where does that put me? My children have been after me to help them accumulate/make their own regalia for 2 years now. They drum, they dance, they're participating in our local powwow and they are dancing at the talent show. I don't know anything about their ancestors...I'm not even sure which tribes their father descends from. I've seen the enrollment papers of the half brothers (who I have helped to raise) but that was many years ago, and I don't remember...

But my kids want to dance, and they want to develop ties with their dad's people...even if their dad can't/won't help them.

So are we considered "whites"? Are we not wanted, because I'm white?

Where does that leave us?
It's not about who does or doesn't want you/them, their own father doesn't even want them right? It's about who they are...
If I was in your shoes, nothing could stop my kids from getting into the arena if it was in their hearts to do it.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:45 PM   #190
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It's not about who does or doesn't want you/them, their own father doesn't even want them right? It's about who they are...
If I was in your shoes, nothing could stop my kids from getting into the arena if it was in their hearts to do it.
Thank you so much for your response. Here, where there are not many blood native or enrolled tribal members...the focus is reallyon trying to uncover and preserve tradotions that have been lost, so they are very welcoming to all people who want to participate.

They did dance at our local pow wow on Saturday, and also performed with a drum group over 2 days of the pt talent show and they brought downn the house. My son has decided fast and fancy is the way to go....and though he has none of his own regalia, they used program regalia for him and he did FANTASTIC. So I will be working on regalia this summer...and I'm going to have to pick up a roach for him...and a skirt, collar, shawl, leggins...for my daughter and both. Goats. MY mind whirls. Don't even know where to start, but i think just one thing at a time.I have given us 2 years for them to prove their committment, and do some beadwork and create some regalia....and if they keep with it, they can do Pendleton R-Up in 2015.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:58 PM   #191
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They were in the arena this weekend. For hours on Saturday, and during both nights of the local pta pow wow.

I have told them if they stick with it I will help the with regalia....but it is intimidating. What regalia themes do I go with? who can they say has sponsored them or passed downn traditions? Not me! I can do the hand work and pick patterns but it's not like it was passed down to me.

It's just vaguely disconcerting.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:07 AM   #192
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They were in the arena this weekend. For hours on Saturday, and during both nights of the local pta pow wow.

I have told them if they stick with it I will help the with regalia....but it is intimidating. What regalia themes do I go with? who can they say has sponsored them or passed down traditions? Not me! I can do the hand work and pick patterns but it's not like it was passed down to me.

It's just vaguely disconcerting.
Those are valid questions. Is there no way to find their tribal identity?

I know more than a couple of Indians who wouldn't have danced at all without the encouragement and support from others outside of their own tribes.

I have yet to dance for the first time and I'm an Indian!

As far as it being intimidating, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that is understandable, but it's not as if you, being ethnic white, are forcing yourSELF into the arena like a culture vulture. You are doing this for native kids who are your kids right?

Don't be intimidated for their sake. It's important. You may even receive more help from this site especially if you can find out what tribe/tribes they are from. What style are they dancing now?
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:10 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by AllieBaba View Post
Thank you so much for your response. Here, where there are not many blood native or enrolled tribal members...the focus is reallyon trying to uncover and preserve tradotions that have been lost, so they are very welcoming to all people who want to participate.

They did dance at our local pow wow on Saturday, and also performed with a drum group over 2 days of the pt talent show and they brought downn the house. My son has decided fast and fancy is the way to go....and though he has none of his own regalia, they used program regalia for him and he did FANTASTIC. So I will be working on regalia this summer...and I'm going to have to pick up a roach for him...and a skirt, collar, shawl, leggins...for my daughter and both. Goats. MY mind whirls. Don't even know where to start, but i think just one thing at a time.I have given us 2 years for them to prove their committment, and do some beadwork and create some regalia....and if they keep with it, they can do Pendleton R-Up in 2015.

Duhh..that answered my last question.LOL
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:41 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by AllieBaba View Post
I have dealt with this issue quite a bit and in fact joined this forum in order to approach it. I have two children who are native, were allowed into the tribal headstart program based on the fact that the admin were familiar with their dad (non-enrolled native). In fact, one of the admins of the tribal program was their dad's first cousin.

So here's our situation...dad was never enrolled, his mom was never enrolled. For whatever reason, they didn't bother with getting enrolled, though mom's sisters did, and all her sisters' kids.

Now mom is dead, and I have no contact with the kids' dad. Ultimately, we moved across the state.

Now my children, ages 10 and 11, are involved with our local Indian Education program...a wonderful cultural program that welcomes all children regardless of whether or not they are enrolled with any tribe or even affiliated with a tribe. They teach them about the culture, they host a pow wow, they dance, they drum, they make regalia together.

My children look native, because they are. I am not. But they aren't enrolled, and I have no close contacts, aside from their ENROLLED HALF BROTHERS, who at 15 and 16 are not old enough to really be counted as mentors for the kids..and who are not really knowledgeable about the culture at any rate, despite the fact that they are enrolled kids being raised on the reservation.

So where does that put me? My children have been after me to help them accumulate/make their own regalia for 2 years now. They drum, they dance, they're participating in our local powwow and they are dancing at the talent show. I don't know anything about their ancestors...I'm not even sure which tribes their father descends from. I've seen the enrollment papers of the half brothers (who I have helped to raise) but that was many years ago, and I don't remember...

But my kids want to dance, and they want to develop ties with their dad's people...even if their dad can't/won't help them.

So are we considered "whites"? Are we not wanted, because I'm white?

Where does that leave us?
So where does that put me? My children have been after me to help them accumulate/make their own regalia for 2 years now. They drum, they dance, they're participating in our local powwow and they are dancing at the talent show. I don't know anything about their ancestors...I'm not even sure which tribes their father descends from. I've seen the enrollment papers of the half brothers (who I have helped to raise) but that was many years ago, and I don't remember...

But my kids want to dance, and they want to develop ties with their dad's people...even if their dad can't/won't help them.

So are we considered "whites"? Are we not wanted, because I'm white?

Where does that leave us?


I am a non native parent to multiple native children.Your post resonates with me as I have had to ask this same question: "Where does that put me." The answer I think I have found thus far is this: I am their momma and so therefore it puts me in the position of opening the opportunities for them to learn about themselves. And where culture and family and tribal history are concerned I lend my support. The ways I do that are in some of the ways you do.
Granted that I know my children's tribe and family I am in a better position to do this but there are still things you can do for them. Once you know their tribe you can contact them and request some help. My children's tribe was very helpful in giving me info about history and culture so that I could learn and be in a better position to teach them. They also have reached out to me and keep me in the midst of the community for my children's sake.I believe it would be the same for you ? I hope. Until you find the community then look for your local Indian center and encourage the children to be involved on the community level. Get involved yourself so that your children see you engaged in the community. Bottom line is where you lead they will follow.
You asked another question that I want to take a stab at:So are we considered "whites"? Are we not wanted, because I'm white?
Our children are culturally white if we raise them to be.we have a diverse family experience. It is rare to be a non native parent to native children and involved in community. It can be a challenging road at times which is why I think keeping a good perspective is so vital.
Are we not wanted?Gosh I think one in our situation needs to not give any energy to that question.....go find those who are a positive support for you and your children and God Bless.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:03 PM   #195
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They have lots of support from the program leader at the after school program and the drum group...but their connections aren't with the tribes over on the other side of the state....and while their hearts are strong they really aren't super experienced facilitators between the tribal leaders. Their focus is on managing and improving the program here, and accumulating resources and support for the program at the local level, rather than so much for the individual kids and helping them to figure out their affiliations.

Ancestry isn't such a huge deal here, where most of the indiginous families are gone, and the majority of those left are either transplants from other tribes, or descendants with very, very little native blood and even less culture. The primary focus here is to encourage awareness, and courtesy, and to share the culture itself with a group of people who have had very little exposure to ANY Indian culture. But I want the kids to actually reflect, in their dancing and their regalia, their true roots....and it's going to be difficult, I can tell already.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:59 AM   #196
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They were in the arena this weekend. For hours on Saturday, and during both nights of the local pta pow wow.

I have told them if they stick with it I will help the with regalia....but it is intimidating. What regalia themes do I go with? who can they say has sponsored them or passed downn traditions? Not me! I can do the hand work and pick patterns but it's not like it was passed down to me.

It's just vaguely disconcerting.
This is why it's a good idea to help them find out what tribes they are from. It doesn't have to be passed down to you, but it can still be passed down to them.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:15 PM   #197
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This is why it's a good idea to help them find out what tribes they are from. It doesn't have to be passed down to you, but it can still be passed down to them. This can also aid you in how to craft regalia. Personally speaking from an Indian perspective, I would hope to see them learn of their origins, as much of their story as they can, then learn of the origins of whatever dance they have in their hearts to do, and honor that dance by honoring the people from which it came.
I've put out the requests and we'll see what shakes loose....

For now, let's see if I can post some pics. They are fuzzy and my camera doesn't do great with action shots,,


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Old 03-21-2014, 01:45 PM   #198
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This is why it's a good idea to help them find out what tribes they are from. It doesn't have to be passed down to you, but it can still be passed down to them. This can also aid you in how to craft regalia. Personally speaking from an Indian perspective, I would hope to see them learn of their origins, as much of their story as they can, then learn of the origins of whatever dance they have in their hearts to do, and honor that dance by honoring the people from which it came.
Thanks for the input...I'm working on it.
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:05 PM   #199
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Thanks for the input...I'm working on it.
Testing:

wallacedancing_zpsfd0b521b.mp4 Video by AllieBaba2007 | Photobucket



This should be a video...kinda blurry and not much regalia:
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:17 PM   #200
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this thread is definatly a milehighsalute trap........designed to get me in trouble again here lol
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