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Blood Quantum. Good or Bad?

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  • #16
    As a matter of fact I have been enrolled w/the Lumbee for 25 years. The last time I renewed my membership I had to "take a test" as I call it. Since I live out of state I had to do that. There is no problem "proving" who I am because my gfather was part of the first group lobbying for federal recognition. Now my mother didn't have to "take the test" because she is a senior citizen. I do understand that they want to be sure you maintain tribal ties but I do know there are people that aren't taught their heritage but then want to get involved as they get older. Should they be denied enrollment because of their parents faults???
    Becky B.

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    • #17
      Well, I could blame my gggrandparents for not bothering to get enrolled anywhere, my ggrandparents for not stating their blood degree properly, my grandparents for letting them do a blood degree simplification on the fraction of my mom - reducing her stated blood degree, or my mom for marrying a white guy...but what's the use?

      I could blame my tribe for not passing the ordinance where I could have been enrolled, my aunt for misstating the info for my mom's blood degree increase, my grandpa's tribe for opening enrollments for those born before 1960 and not 1963, or my "adopted" Alaskan tribe where a lot of my cousins are enrolled for not just grandfathering me in for previous residency, etc....

      It doesn't bother me THAT much that I'm not enrolled (just a little )...but I did make sure I jumped thru all the hoops to make sure my kids got enrolled.
      Last edited by wyo_rose; 09-10-2010, 06:15 PM.
      ...it is what it is...

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      • #18
        Something to think about....

        What really determines tribal membership?

        Participation in your tribes activities?

        Knowledge of your tribes history, language, culture, etc.?

        Amount of Native blood you carry?

        Genetic DNA?

        There are arguments, pro & con, for each of these questions. I personally feel one day the US government will step in and set the criteria for what one must be to be considered "Native American".

        Watch this video and pay particular attention to what is said at the 3:57 mark of this video. YouTube - Tony Arkeketa Memorial Video Part Two

        What, as a Native American, is unique about yourself?



        .
        Traditions.....keep them and keep them sacred!

        I am NOT Indian. I have never been to India, nor has any of my family before me! I have met these people from India, of whom you speak, and I am nothing like them. Why do you call me an Indian?

        .

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        • #19
          i'm more ndn than you...that's what i know ha ha ha ha ha



















          jokes aside, i like what handgame native said...that is something to build on

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mato Mahe View Post
            What really determines tribal membership?

            Every "tribe" determines who their members are. Tribes have the fundamental right to set the criteria for determining their membership. The majority of federally and state recognized tribes use set blood quantum requirements, leaneal decendency or roll decendency as criteria. A tribe may also close membership or disenroll members.

            Some tribes who are neither federally or state recognized simply have you fill out a application, pay a fee and you are issued a tribal membership.

            People who don't know what tribe they are but have a DNA certificate proving they are 4/4 American Indian will not automatically be allowed into any tribe simply by showing a DNA certificate.


            And and..... *L
            Last edited by WhoMe; 09-12-2010, 11:31 AM.
            Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

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            • #21
              I understand that each tribe wants to be shown as a strong nation, but wouldn't it be better if they went by how much native you are as a whole? I am 1/4 Navajo, 1/4 Oklahoma Choctaw, and 1/4 Mississippi Band of Choctaw. How is it that the Mississippi Band wouldn't take me because I'm not half, but the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma would and counted both groups of choctaw to make me half? That's just crazy. They come from the same place. I'm sure both groups had the same ancestors.

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              • #22
                What about Tribes with per capita, and other Tribal benefits, like land, homes, health care, etc.?

                Seems like some might see a large surge in memberships, based upon the benefits. You get so many members, there's not that many benefits.

                Seems like making requirements other than ancestry makes it more like some sort of club. If you are a Tribal member it's something you are born into, not because you took some sort of test.

                Maybe they should have some sort of interim membership, intern, or honorary membership, maybe a naturalized member, while certain privileges are withheld. The US has many naturalized citizens, certain privileges/rights are withheld. Like a Naturalized citizen cannot be President.

                If Tribes die out, that's just a natural demographic trend not much can be done about it. Just opening up membership, or citizenship, does not really change that, they still don't have any Indians. Just figure if you're Indian, you are in short supply. You know how to make more Indians.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ChahtaGrasser View Post
                  I understand that each tribe wants to be shown as a strong nation, but wouldn't it be better if they went by how much native you are as a whole? I am 1/4 Navajo, 1/4 Oklahoma Choctaw, and 1/4 Mississippi Band of Choctaw. How is it that the Mississippi Band wouldn't take me because I'm not half, but the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma would and counted both groups of choctaw to make me half? That's just crazy. They come from the same place. I'm sure both groups had the same ancestors.
                  I can actually answer this, I think.LOL

                  THe Mississippi band of Choctaw had a blood quantum limit due to them being outside of IT aka Oklahoma. The Choctaw of OK were one of the 5 civilized Nations, per the gov. So they were the ones who moved from the East or Southern states to IT way back when. And when they did that the gov, at that time, "allowed" them to accept member's no matter what their blood quantum was. Back as early as the 1850's it is stated in gov records that the gov themselves didn't recognize anyone as being Native who was less then 1/4 NDN. And if you actually look at many of the tribal enrollments (Choctaw or Cherokee--both OK and East) you will see that they had many member's who were less then that who were listed on the Rolls as being tribal members. For the EBC this changed on the 1908 Churchill roll where people, who themselves and their ancestor's had all been on all the previous rolls were being rejected for tribal membership. However, by comparing both the CNO Dawes roll and the EBC Churchill roll you will find that many people who were rejected that any of their relations (siblings, parents, grandparents, children, etc.) who went to IT around that time were automatically accepted as members of the CNO on the Dawes Roll. Now, I haven't gone too much into the other 4 Civilized Nations, but the Dawes Roll, basically, covered them all if you read the info from the Dawes commission.

                  And the same goes the same way with the CNO, they will accept EBC Blood and CNO as a whole, but I think (If I remember right) the same is true in reverse, the EBC will accept CNO blood together with EBC. Why the Choctaw don't, that I really don't know, but the OK tribe is explained through the Dawes Commission, actually. But it's an aweful lot of reading.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by gtbdave View Post
                    Maybe they should have some sort of interim membership, intern, or honorary membership, maybe a naturalized member, while certain privileges are withheld....

                    gtb,

                    I think you are on to something! Perhaps as blood quantum are being filtered out and roll decendency is being debated, a system differentiating tribal membership and tribal decendency can be adopted? Whatcha' think? Each would have different criteria and benefits.
                    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
                      gtb,

                      I think you are on to something! Perhaps as blood quantum are being filtered out and roll decendency is being debated, a system differentiating tribal membership and tribal decendency can be adopted? Whatcha' think? Each would have different criteria and benefits.
                      We allow foreign-born persons to join the U.S. Military, get a greencard (immigrate) and get in line for eventual U.S. citizenship. and then can sponsor their other siblings and even their parents to immigrate into the U.S.

                      The soldiers then can marry a foreigner and give them an "automatic" greencard. Then that foreign spouse eventually gains U.S. citizenship, and THEIR blood relatives clamor to be brought to the U.S.

                      I give this as an example of how systems start as a good idea, then get overwhelmed in the long run.

                      It would only take two generations for the Natives to get "out-numbered" by newcomers, so yes voting rights and tribal council membership rights should be protected by original descendants.
                      Last edited by AmigoKumeyaay; 09-27-2010, 03:33 PM. Reason: shortened for easier reading
                      sigpic

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
                        gtb,

                        I think you are on to something! Perhaps as blood quantum are being filtered out and roll decendency is being debated, a system differentiating tribal membership and tribal decendency can be adopted? Whatcha' think? Each would have different criteria and benefits.
                        I thought that already occurred?

                        I know enrolled skinz get their CDIB from the Tribal Office, and the decscendants usuualy go to the BIA office with documents in hand and BIA will write them a descendency letter - so they can go to IHS LOL.

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                        • #27
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                          • #28
                            this is such a sad conversation for some. But the choices are few good. I have to tell my my grandchildren that they aren't Indian but that they have a history to be proud of. I think its harder for me than them at times.Thats just how it is.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by timmy tiger View Post
                              I can actually answer this, I think.LOL

                              THe Mississippi band of Choctaw had a blood quantum limit due to them being outside of IT aka Oklahoma. The Choctaw of OK were one of the 5 civilized Nations, per the gov. So they were the ones who moved from the East or Southern states to IT way back when. And when they did that the gov, at that time, "allowed" them to accept member's no matter what their blood quantum was. Back as early as the 1850's it is stated in gov records that the gov themselves didn't recognize anyone as being Native who was less then 1/4 NDN. And if you actually look at many of the tribal enrollments (Choctaw or Cherokee--both OK and East) you will see that they had many member's who were less then that who were listed on the Rolls as being tribal members. For the EBC this changed on the 1908 Churchill roll where people, who themselves and their ancestor's had all been on all the previous rolls were being rejected for tribal membership. However, by comparing both the CNO Dawes roll and the EBC Churchill roll you will find that many people who were rejected that any of their relations (siblings, parents, grandparents, children, etc.) who went to IT around that time were automatically accepted as members of the CNO on the Dawes Roll. Now, I haven't gone too much into the other 4 Civilized Nations, but the Dawes Roll, basically, covered them all if you read the info from the Dawes commission.

                              And the same goes the same way with the CNO, they will accept EBC Blood and CNO as a whole, but I think (If I remember right) the same is true in reverse, the EBC will accept CNO blood together with EBC. Why the Choctaw don't, that I really don't know, but the OK tribe is explained through the Dawes Commission, actually. But it's an aweful lot of reading.
                              Have you ever run across cases where different rolls for the same tribe had different BQ values for the same people? On an earlier roll the individual is listed, for example, as 1/4, but then 20 years later is listed as 1/32? Wonder why that happened.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Grits & Beans View Post
                                i'm more ndn than you...
                                LOL, ok. See, this is what I'm curious about.

                                One person is more "indian" than another based upon what?

                                skin colour?

                                knowledge of your tribes culture?

                                genetics?

                                participation in your tribes culture?

                                knowledge/use of your tribes language?

                                What determines if one person is more "indian" than another?

                                I beleive this is question I posed to Zeke before and really never got a answer, well, one that I don't remember anyway. LOL "If we don't use blood quantum, what do we use to determine tribal membership?

                                .
                                Traditions.....keep them and keep them sacred!

                                I am NOT Indian. I have never been to India, nor has any of my family before me! I have met these people from India, of whom you speak, and I am nothing like them. Why do you call me an Indian?

                                .

                                Comment

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