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Blood Quantum. Good or Bad?

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  • timmy tiger
    replied
    Originally posted by ChahtaGrasser View Post
    I understand that each tribe wants to be shown as a strong nation, but wouldn't it be better if they went by how much native you are as a whole? I am 1/4 Navajo, 1/4 Oklahoma Choctaw, and 1/4 Mississippi Band of Choctaw. How is it that the Mississippi Band wouldn't take me because I'm not half, but the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma would and counted both groups of choctaw to make me half? That's just crazy. They come from the same place. I'm sure both groups had the same ancestors.
    I can actually answer this, I think.LOL

    THe Mississippi band of Choctaw had a blood quantum limit due to them being outside of IT aka Oklahoma. The Choctaw of OK were one of the 5 civilized Nations, per the gov. So they were the ones who moved from the East or Southern states to IT way back when. And when they did that the gov, at that time, "allowed" them to accept member's no matter what their blood quantum was. Back as early as the 1850's it is stated in gov records that the gov themselves didn't recognize anyone as being Native who was less then 1/4 NDN. And if you actually look at many of the tribal enrollments (Choctaw or Cherokee--both OK and East) you will see that they had many member's who were less then that who were listed on the Rolls as being tribal members. For the EBC this changed on the 1908 Churchill roll where people, who themselves and their ancestor's had all been on all the previous rolls were being rejected for tribal membership. However, by comparing both the CNO Dawes roll and the EBC Churchill roll you will find that many people who were rejected that any of their relations (siblings, parents, grandparents, children, etc.) who went to IT around that time were automatically accepted as members of the CNO on the Dawes Roll. Now, I haven't gone too much into the other 4 Civilized Nations, but the Dawes Roll, basically, covered them all if you read the info from the Dawes commission.

    And the same goes the same way with the CNO, they will accept EBC Blood and CNO as a whole, but I think (If I remember right) the same is true in reverse, the EBC will accept CNO blood together with EBC. Why the Choctaw don't, that I really don't know, but the OK tribe is explained through the Dawes Commission, actually. But it's an aweful lot of reading.

    Leave a comment:


  • gtbdave
    replied
    What about Tribes with per capita, and other Tribal benefits, like land, homes, health care, etc.?

    Seems like some might see a large surge in memberships, based upon the benefits. You get so many members, there's not that many benefits.

    Seems like making requirements other than ancestry makes it more like some sort of club. If you are a Tribal member it's something you are born into, not because you took some sort of test.

    Maybe they should have some sort of interim membership, intern, or honorary membership, maybe a naturalized member, while certain privileges are withheld. The US has many naturalized citizens, certain privileges/rights are withheld. Like a Naturalized citizen cannot be President.

    If Tribes die out, that's just a natural demographic trend not much can be done about it. Just opening up membership, or citizenship, does not really change that, they still don't have any Indians. Just figure if you're Indian, you are in short supply. You know how to make more Indians.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChahtaGrasser
    replied
    I understand that each tribe wants to be shown as a strong nation, but wouldn't it be better if they went by how much native you are as a whole? I am 1/4 Navajo, 1/4 Oklahoma Choctaw, and 1/4 Mississippi Band of Choctaw. How is it that the Mississippi Band wouldn't take me because I'm not half, but the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma would and counted both groups of choctaw to make me half? That's just crazy. They come from the same place. I'm sure both groups had the same ancestors.

    Leave a comment:


  • WhoMe
    replied
    Originally posted by Mato Mahe View Post
    What really determines tribal membership?

    Every "tribe" determines who their members are. Tribes have the fundamental right to set the criteria for determining their membership. The majority of federally and state recognized tribes use set blood quantum requirements, leaneal decendency or roll decendency as criteria. A tribe may also close membership or disenroll members.

    Some tribes who are neither federally or state recognized simply have you fill out a application, pay a fee and you are issued a tribal membership.

    People who don't know what tribe they are but have a DNA certificate proving they are 4/4 American Indian will not automatically be allowed into any tribe simply by showing a DNA certificate.


    And and..... *L
    Last edited by WhoMe; 09-12-2010, 11:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grits & Beans
    replied
    i'm more ndn than you...that's what i know ha ha ha ha ha



















    jokes aside, i like what handgame native said...that is something to build on

    Leave a comment:


  • Mato Mahe
    replied
    Something to think about....

    What really determines tribal membership?

    Participation in your tribes activities?

    Knowledge of your tribes history, language, culture, etc.?

    Amount of Native blood you carry?

    Genetic DNA?

    There are arguments, pro & con, for each of these questions. I personally feel one day the US government will step in and set the criteria for what one must be to be considered "Native American".

    Watch this video and pay particular attention to what is said at the 3:57 mark of this video. YouTube - Tony Arkeketa Memorial Video Part Two

    What, as a Native American, is unique about yourself?



    .

    Leave a comment:


  • wyo_rose
    replied
    Well, I could blame my gggrandparents for not bothering to get enrolled anywhere, my ggrandparents for not stating their blood degree properly, my grandparents for letting them do a blood degree simplification on the fraction of my mom - reducing her stated blood degree, or my mom for marrying a white guy...but what's the use?

    I could blame my tribe for not passing the ordinance where I could have been enrolled, my aunt for misstating the info for my mom's blood degree increase, my grandpa's tribe for opening enrollments for those born before 1960 and not 1963, or my "adopted" Alaskan tribe where a lot of my cousins are enrolled for not just grandfathering me in for previous residency, etc....

    It doesn't bother me THAT much that I'm not enrolled (just a little )...but I did make sure I jumped thru all the hoops to make sure my kids got enrolled.
    Last edited by wyo_rose; 09-10-2010, 06:15 PM.

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  • NDNQt
    replied
    As a matter of fact I have been enrolled w/the Lumbee for 25 years. The last time I renewed my membership I had to "take a test" as I call it. Since I live out of state I had to do that. There is no problem "proving" who I am because my gfather was part of the first group lobbying for federal recognition. Now my mother didn't have to "take the test" because she is a senior citizen. I do understand that they want to be sure you maintain tribal ties but I do know there are people that aren't taught their heritage but then want to get involved as they get older. Should they be denied enrollment because of their parents faults???

    Leave a comment:


  • NorthofAda
    replied
    Originally posted by handgame_native View Post
    It was a bad sign for Natives when we started to write down what it meant to be Indian rather than just being in the position to live it like the folks before us. There were reasons for this change, but it was a shift away from traditional methods of identification.

    ALL of us are grappling with this and every other post colonization issue that presents a daily challenge to our communities.

    But i think we need to face it and realize that we can't ride two horses with one behind, we either acknowledge that our cultural and social identity isn't applicable to citizenship or that it is and blood quantum is a figment of some tribal or fed gov bureaucrat''s imagination to (usually) gauge our ancestors' intelligence. Let's show them we are smarter than that system. leave it behind and create one that meets the needs and wants of the people while maintaining a strong defense of tribal identity.
    Great post!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • handgame_native
    replied
    It was a bad sign for Natives when we started to write down what it meant to be Indian rather than just being in the position to live it like the folks before us. There were reasons for this change, but it was a shift away from traditional methods of identification.

    ALL of us are grappling with this and every other post colonization issue that presents a daily challenge to our communities.

    But i think we need to face it and realize that we can't ride two horses with one behind, we either acknowledge that our cultural and social identity isn't applicable to citizenship or that it is and blood quantum is a figment of some tribal or fed gov bureaucrat''s imagination to (usually) gauge our ancestors' intelligence. Let's show them we are smarter than that system. leave it behind and create one that meets the needs and wants of the people while maintaining a strong defense of tribal identity.

    Leave a comment:


  • timmy tiger
    replied
    Originally posted by NorthofAda View Post
    Some tribes (mine included) enroll by lineal descent. Even though they give you a CDIB, there is no minimum BQ required to enroll. That opens up another can of worms, too. If only a very small fraction of your blood is NDN, then when do you cease to be one? Or do you?

    Wow, several of my friends and I have had this same discussion and asked the same questions.

    But if you are raised NDN and know your history and culture, do you ever really stop being who and what you are?

    Yeah, there's a lot of terms out there: "Wannabe", "Hobbyist", "Weekend NDN" and on and on. I've heard them all, or most of them anyway. And when you talk to the people, many of them don't even know where they come from. So how can they really know who they are? Just a question and my opinion here.

    I have a friend who runs a center here, I've worked with them for many years. They accept anyone who "says" that they are NDN as being NDN. Where they draw the line is when someone calls them up and says "I'm NDN, now what's in it for me or what can I get for it?" He hangs up the phone.LOL I have a different perspective, of course, but then again it is based on the tribes version first and then I look at other things as well. He and I have alot of these discussions all the time and just recently did again.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorthofAda
    replied
    Some tribes (mine included) enroll by lineal descent. Even though they give you a CDIB, there is no minimum BQ required to enroll. That opens up another can of worms, too. If only a very small fraction of your blood is NDN, then when do you cease to be one? Or do you?

    Leave a comment:


  • lbgood
    replied
    Originally posted by wyo_rose View Post
    Both tribes here have been counting the blood degree of the mother and father even if one is from a different federally recognized tribe.
    I guess their giving preference to Native blood over non-Indian blood - interesting. Atleast its an option for other tribes to consider.

    Leave a comment:


  • wyo_rose
    replied
    Well, the criteria for enrollment are set by the different tribes and they can change it...and some will probably have to in the near future.

    The N. Arapaho tribe up here went through a major revision of enrollment requirements about 20 years ago or so. Before only enrolled fathers could enroll their kids if the kids were over 1/4.

    Both tribes here have been counting the blood degree of the mother and father even if one is from a different federally recognized tribe.

    The sad fact is the tribes with percaps are making or keeping their enrollment requirements stricter to keep their payments as high as possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • lbgood
    replied
    Originally posted by Mato Mahe View Post
    Wow, where's Zeke
    I thought the samething when I read this thread - but then again we already know his views on this topic

    Leave a comment:

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