Need help with my g-g-grandma Cope

[BillHowe1414]

All my life I was told by my grandmother, Lola June Lewis, that her father Ralph Lewis was FB Cherokee and was born on the reservation in OK, but was illegitimate. My grandmother refused to register due to an argument with her mother Mina Claborne, who was also Cherokee, but never registered. Now, the real problem is Mina's mother Martha Elizabeth "Mattie" Cope who was FB Cherokee/Choctaw according to my grandmother and her cousin Buster, who Mattie lived with the last years of her life. BUster informed me that Mattie received a monthly check from the tribal government of about $16 back in the 1930s. I have pictures of Mattie and there is no doubt the woman is Native. However, when registered on the US Federal Census rolls she is labeled white along side her husband Charles L Claborn. I am not interested in registering with the tribe to receive benefits, et. al. I grew up next to a reservation in Arizona, so I understand the hesitation by the Natives towards white claims of Native blood. I just want a definitive answer on my ancestry and if I am Native. As a child, I always associated with Native Americans over the "Cowboys" and just want to know where my ancestors come from and to complete who I am for myself and y children. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Josiah]

All my life I was told by my grandmother, Lola June Lewis, that her father Ralph Lewis was FB Cherokee and was born on the reservation in OK, but was illegitimate. My grandmother refused to register due to an argument with her mother Mina Claborne, who was also Cherokee, but never registered. Now, the real problem is Mina's mother Martha Elizabeth "Mattie" Cope who was FB Cherokee/Choctaw according to my grandmother and her cousin Buster, who Mattie lived with the last years of her life. BUster informed me that Mattie received a monthly check from the tribal government of about $16 back in the 1930s. I have pictures of Mattie and there is no doubt the woman is Native. However, when registered on the US Federal Census rolls she is labeled white along side her husband Charles L Claborn. I am not interested in registering with the tribe to receive benefits, et. al. I grew up next to a reservation in Arizona, so I understand the hesitation by the Natives towards white claims of Native blood. I just want a definitive answer on my ancestry and if I am Native. As a child, I always associated with Native Americans over the "Cowboys" and just want to know where my ancestors come from and to complete who I am for myself and y children. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I have written several posts about the Dawes Rolls

1) A person could fill out an application but still not enrolled let me make that clearer Every person that filled out an application for enrollment is listed. If they were accepted they would have a Roll number if they have an R or a D in front of that roll number it meant they were not accepted.

2) Cherokees Never lived on a Reservation. The land in Oklahoma belonged to the Sovereign Nation of the Cherokees and was dissolved as a result of the Curtis Act of 1898 & Burke Act of 1908.

3) All illegitmate Children were enrolled in 1906 and are found on Minor Cherokee by Blood section of the Dawes Rolls. That is a European practice in the Cherokee Nation a woman could name the Father whenever she wanted to and without his consent. European practice was the Father had to acknowledge the child was his this came about because of Kings Law. The Dawes Commission took it upon themselves to Determine the Childs parents mainly to determine if they were Cherokee by blood. It was common practice for Cherokees to adopt these children we took care of our own. Orphanges did not start up until After Cherokee Nation was dissolved in 1907.

4) All 5 Civilized Tribal Governments were dissolved and cease to exist untill after 1936 when the Oklahoma Indian Welfare Act was enacted by Congress. So for an Indian to recieve a monthly check it would have had to come from somewhere else.

5)On Censuses you self identified what Race you were.

[silvermoon2012]

I would like to wish you luck on your journey. I know just how difficult it can be to put the pieces of the past together with the present. Keep at it and be patient.

[Josiah]

I did a look up on the Miller and Dawes Rolls for the names you listed none of them showed up.
That means one of Two things
1) They did not enroll
2) Those are not the names they enrolled under

If you have ages for the above named people that will help
In order to be enrolled on the Dawes Roll as a Cherokee
You had to be:
1) Resident of the Cherokee Nation (Meaning Physically Living within the Boundries of the Cherokee Nation)

2) Enrolled by the Tribe on either the 1896 Tribal Census Roll or the 1880 Tribal Census Roll (Meaning a Citizen of the Soveriegn Cherokee Nation and not paying taxes to the Federal Government)

3) Living at the time of the Roll sometime between 1898-1906 Most Cherokees had enrolled by 1902, in 1906 the Commission did a final sweep which included minor children

The Guion Miller Roll was done from 1907 to 1914 and that was a Payment Roll but you did not have to Physically live within any Tribal Boundries you just had to show an ancestor had enrolled in 1851 on either the Chapman Roll or Drennen Roll which proved you had Eastern Cherokee Ancestry that had either walked the Trail of Tears or had stayed in the North Carolina and live in the Qualla Boundry.

[wyo_rose]

Thanks for posting all this information, Josiah.

Sneaking a BINGO number in here:

Session 1 Game 1

Another "N" 41 - Under the "N" Fourty One

[docat]

Have you tried DNA testing?

You might get some answers with DNA testing, but I'm not really sure what kinds you would get. There are some expert people who deal with this though, and you might want to get into contact with them. If you PM me, I think I can give you the address of a Creek lady who has helped others with this. In the meantime I will look for her address. I'm pretty sure I can find it.

We are always at the mercy of what our ancestors did before us, so illigitimacy or whether one moved one place and not another or married into white people and wanted to pass as white, it's not anything you can do anything about. The only thing you have charge over right now is who you are and what you do with your life now. It doesn't make you less of a person or more of a person one way or the other.

You can see with your eyes that your ancestor is Indian, so since you are not interested in enrolling, I'm guessing you want some closure to know it is what it is. In that case, surely DNA testing is your best option.

But no matter how it turns out, many of us welcome all people in friendship, no matter what the race, who celebrate our rich cultures and care about preserving the many aspects of our cultures that are in danger of passing away.

Just come as you are.

[BillHowe1414]

Docat-what a great message. Thank you. I know there is nothing I can do about my ancestors. As you said, I just want payee and a definitive answer. Thanks again. I would love you friends contact info.

[rezrazed]

You might get some answers with DNA testing, but I'm not really sure what kinds you would get. There are some expert people who deal with this though, and you might want to get into contact with them. If you PM me, I think I can give you the address of a Creek lady who has helped others with this. In the meantime I will look for her address. I'm pretty sure I can find it.

We are always at the mercy of what our ancestors did before us, so illigitimacy or whether one moved one place and not another or married into white people and wanted to pass as white, it's not anything you can do anything about. The only thing you have charge over right now is who you are and what you do with your life now. It doesn't make you less of a person or more of a person one way or the other.

You can see with your eyes that your ancestor is Indian, so since you are not interested in enrolling, I'm guessing you want some closure to know it is what it is. In that case, surely DNA testing is your best option.

But no matter how it turns out, many of us welcome all people in friendship, no matter what the race, who celebrate our rich cultures and care about preserving the many aspects of our cultures that are in danger of passing away.

Just come as you are.

Hey BillHowe1414 I may be new here as a registered member, but I've been hanging around for quiet some time, the first thing I can tell you is to watch out for low life wannabe chasing scum bags who look for opportunities to sell ya a fake tribe membership.

[BillHowe1414]

Hey BillHowe1414 I may be new here as a registered member, but I've been hanging around for quiet some time, the first thing I can tell you is to watch out for low life wannabe chasing scum bags who look for opportunities to sell ya a fake tribe membership.

Thanks for the caveat. I'm not interested in joining a tribal unit, carry a card, or look for anything to do with registering. I just want a definitive answer that solidifies my assumptions. I do know nearly every white person in America has Cherokee blood and that their great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess. Mine wasn't. She was every day run of the mill Cherokee. Just looking to verify to close the mystery but separating fact from myth. I appreciate the help.

[comadre]

Well look who found pow wows.com!!!!! Is this the bill that played rez ball in that field that is full of gopher holes? I just saw your mom down on the rez.Send me a PM!!!

[BillHowe1414]

Well look who found pow wows.com!!!!! Is this the bill that played rez ball in that field that is full of gopher holes? I just saw your mom down on the rez.Send me a PM!!!

Yes it is. Who is this? Not sure how to send a PM on these boards. I don't see it. Send me one and I might be able to figure it out.

[comadre]

.

[comadre]

Yes it is. Who is this? Not sure how to send a PM on these boards. I don't see it. Send me one and I might be able to figure it out.

click on my name and that puts you on my page. Then you will see where it says message...send me a private.

I am suppose to be in lent! LOL>

[trouble]

Let me extend my hand to friendship to you as well BillHowe1414, any friend of our comadre will be most welcome....WELCOME TO THE BOARDS!!!...Lots of great words given in advise here!!!!


oh and HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!!