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  • baby veronica

    well ive been trying to follow this case kinda hard to do. seems like mistakes made by both sides. I was was wondering idf any of you have read the court documents? First and for most let me say I believe with all my heart that this little girl should be with her biological father because tha is the way it should be. not because he is a little bit indian just cause he is her dad and takes great care of her. adoption is for kids whos folks either don't want to or cant take care of children, this girl is not one of them. so yes I believe he should keep her. now as far as the icwa portion I do not believe this man or child should fall under it. Now I know for a fact there are all kinds of Cherokees full blooded ones 1000's and 1000's of them that speak live practice there language and beliefs everyday. but this dusten brown aint one of them. I read the court documents and his claim to being indian and teaching her indian culture was eating indian tacos and going to Cherokee holiday. ok I believe that eating indian tacos does not make you indian. its not even a traditional food. anyways maybe he should try pursuing he is biological father and I would think veronica being a us citizen would have some rights too. but yes he should keep her, not cause he has a little bit of Cherokee blood in him but cause he is a good dad and she is around her real loving family

  • #2
    I see the need for the ICWA, but it is one of those laws that hands out heartbreak to everyone involved.

    Originally posted by running_with_buffs View Post
    now as far as the icwa portion I do not believe this man or child should fall under it. Now I know for a fact there are all kinds of Cherokees full blooded ones 1000's and 1000's of them that speak live practice there language and beliefs everyday. but this dusten brown aint one of them. I read the court documents and his claim to being indian and teaching her indian culture was eating indian tacos and going to Cherokee holiday.
    The ICWA applies to children in custody battles not already under tribal jurisdiction, that were born of a tribal member and who are themselves a tribal member or eligible for tribal membership. So, within these federally established standards, who would decide what parent is Indian enough for the ICWA to apply?

    The Feds? I love that idea -- NOT. Some government bureaucrat in charge of defining standards on Indianess. I feel soft termination coming on. "Dang, boss I can't find no Indians anymore. Forget those treaty obligations. Miller time!"

    The tribe? Better, but still a with a high potential to turn a child, who is already a victim in some kind of ugly family drama, into a pawn in a game of brinksmanship with the state or the dominant culture. Tribes will have to checklists for judges of what behaviors make you Indian enough to be a good Indian parent. There will have to be social workers to hand out the pass/fails on authenticity. Will tribes have to license Indian parents? You're a government approved breeder?!
    Last edited by OLChemist; 08-21-2013, 02:22 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by running_with_buffs View Post
      let me say I believe with all my heart that this little girl should be with her biological father because tha is the way it should be.
      I vehemently disagree.

      Comment


      • #4
        why? if a parent is able and willing then why shouldn't they ? he takes good care of her provides a loving home. If he didn't take care of her was homeless and couldn't feed himself or her or put clothes on there backs and a roof over there heads, but he can and is more than able to isn't adoption for kids who don't have parents or other family that is willing or able to take care of them?

        Comment


        • #5
          ICWA isn't a last ditch trump card for 1/infinity Natives.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have been following this case on and off for a while, I love how the news people like to tag something that presents the news story with an image...
            Headlines like "Baby Veronica" is a prime example!!

            For those of you not aware of this case or only heard about it just recently she is no longer a "Baby"
            This case has dragged on thru State and Federal Courts for 4 years!!
            Today (3 Sept 2013)
            The Oklahoma State Supreme Court heard and issued a request for an Emergency Stay, meaning this little girl gets to stay with her "Biological" Father for a little while longer...
            She has been with him for the past 2 years!
            She was with he Adoptive parents for the 1st two years of her life after they paid a "fee" to the Biological Mother of $40,000 dollars to sign this baby over to them. That is what is at stake here, call it what you want but money is at the heart of this case. The Adoptive parents thru an "agency" sought and found a mother who was low income and had no funds to support the child. They deemed the adoption low risk, meaning no fight over the child would occur not realizing that the mother had duped not only them but the Father as well. For as soon as he found out that she was not only pregnant but was signing the child over he objected to the proceedings. It was because of a paperwork snafu in the begining of this case and also why the Federal Supreme Court ruled that the ICWA did not apply in this case. If you carefully Read there findings you will realize that the ruling was worded as such was because he did not seek the child with the PROPER PAPERWORK!!
            That paperwork has been filed and also why the Cherokee Nation Child Welfare Office is now FULLY involved!
            Also why the Oklahoma Supreme Court is now involved
            Along with the Cherokee Nation Tribal Court system
            All because the proper paperwork was not filled out...

            My wife took this last weekend:
            https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.ph...type=1&theater
            ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
            Till I Die!

            Comment


            • #7
              I have been following this case on and off for a while, I love how the news people like to tag something that presents the news story with an image...
              Headlines like "Baby Veronica" is a prime example!!

              For those of you not aware of this case or only heard about it just recently she is no longer a "Baby"
              This case has dragged on thru State and Federal Courts for 4 years!!
              Today (3 Sept 2013)
              The Oklahoma State Supreme Court heard and issued a request for an Emergency Stay, meaning this little girl gets to stay with her "Biological" Father for a little while longer...
              She has been with him for the past 2 years!
              She was with he Adoptive parents for the 1st two years of her life after they paid a "fee" to the Biological Mother of $40,000 dollars to sign this baby over to them. That is what is at stake here, call it what you want but money is at the heart of this case. The Adoptive parents thru an "agency" sought and found a mother who was low income and had no funds to support the child. They deemed the adoption low risk, meaning no fight over the child would occur not realizing that the mother had duped not only them but the Father as well. For as soon as he found out that she was not only pregnant but was signing the child over he objected to the proceedings. It was because of a paperwork snafu in the begining of this case and also why the Federal Supreme Court ruled that the ICWA did not apply in this case. If you carefully Read there findings you will realize that the ruling was worded as such was because he did not seek the child with the PROPER PAPERWORK!!
              That paperwork has been filed and also why the Cherokee Nation Child Welfare Office is now FULLY involved!
              Also why the Oklahoma Supreme Court is now involved
              Along with the Cherokee Nation Tribal Court system
              All because the proper paperwork was not filled out...

              My wife took this last weekend:
              <div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1" fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
              <div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200883307937776&amp;set=a.1020088 3323698170&amp;type=1"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200883307937776&amp;set=a.1020088 3323698170&amp;type=1">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/josihair">Josiah Hair</a>.</div></div>
              Last edited by Josiah; 09-03-2013, 12:50 PM. Reason: Added code for embedding
              ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
              Till I Die!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Josiah View Post
                I have been following this case on and off for a while, I love how the news people like to tag something that presents the news story with an image...
                Headlines like "Baby Veronica" is a prime example!!

                For those of you not aware of this case or only heard about it just recently she is no longer a "Baby"
                This case has dragged on thru State and Federal Courts for 4 years!!
                Today (3 Sept 2013)
                The Oklahoma State Supreme Court heard and issued a request for an Emergency Stay, meaning this little girl gets to stay with her "Biological" Father for a little while longer...
                She has been with him for the past 2 years!
                She was with he Adoptive parents for the 1st two years of her life after they paid a "fee" to the Biological Mother of $40,000 dollars to sign this baby over to them. That is what is at stake here, call it what you want but money is at the heart of this case. The Adoptive parents thru an "agency" sought and found a mother who was low income and had no funds to support the child. They deemed the adoption low risk, meaning no fight over the child would occur not realizing that the mother had duped not only them but the Father as well. For as soon as he found out that she was not only pregnant but was signing the child over he objected to the proceedings. It was because of a paperwork snafu in the begining of this case and also why the Federal Supreme Court ruled that the ICWA did not apply in this case. If you carefully Read there findings you will realize that the ruling was worded as such was because he did not seek the child with the PROPER PAPERWORK!!
                That paperwork has been filed and also why the Cherokee Nation Child Welfare Office is now FULLY involved!
                Also why the Oklahoma Supreme Court is now involved
                Along with the Cherokee Nation Tribal Court system
                All because the proper paperwork was not filled out...

                My wife took this last weekend:
                <div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1" fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
                <div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200883307937776&amp;set=a.1020088 3323698170&amp;type=1"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200883307937776&amp;set=a.1020088 3323698170&amp;type=1">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/josihair">Josiah Hair</a>.</div></div>
                Good Article from the Tulsa World Newspaper...

                Baby Veronica case: Oklahoma Supreme Court blocks Nowata Court ruling to transfer custody | Tulsa World
                ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
                Till I Die!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Veronica Brown Taken From Biological Father - Native News Network

                  I can't make sense of this case. I just want to say that my prayers are with this family and their beautiful little girl. Prayers for healing for the grandpa.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yep eating ndn tacos and going to a powwow every so often does not qualify as what ICWA was enacted for... Going to Tsalagi Green Corn and speaking/learning Tsalagi, maybe. If anything this should have been contested as Illegal Adoption- which it was, considering how she was placed in Capobianco's household to begin with. But of course the US justice system- apparently from CAICW sources- was "ok" with it and found "no foul play" with how the initial and original "adoption" was conducted; why have laws and regulations to these laws if the very justice system that put them in place won't even go by them?! What does this say to the countless people who have went through the proper protocol in order to adopt or put up for adoption- not just a Native child, but ANY child for that matter?!
                    http://www.youtube.com/user/Scabzilla49?feature=mhee

                    Comment

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