Hip Hop & Pow Wows Collide?

[IlnuSoldier]

Zeke - Hahaha... I have to agree again and your post reminds me of so many memories of my own....

ahh... ...good times.

[Zeke]

This Parent of the girl felt that she should not be dancing in that way in them clothes that they should be shown respect

For clothes? Really, you want me to objectify clothes?

This (and the video) was a young girl? Fine. Her/their parents can determine what they do and what they're wearing while doing it. But, as an adult, given the right to wear something, how you wear it is YOURS. (That's the whole point of the concept of Rights.)

Oh, sure, someone might want to throw out the "origin" argument, or the "respect" argument, but the reality is this: people can/will dance how the Hell they want. They can, also, WEAR anything that they want. Why? Because it is either their Right to or they shouldn't even be out there. (If they shouldn't be out there, why do we care?)

I am getting older. I am out of shape. I do not dance often, anymore. But, while wearing big eagle bustles, angoras, a roach and top feathers, if someone comes up to me and says I am disrespecting my clothes because I am smoking a Cohiba or they don't like the way I dance, I'm going to laugh at them.

And that doesn't harm our culture one bit.

Besides, in context, this whole video/issue is a NOTHING.

[ugidali]

Stop "BUCK DANCING"

my two sense worth.... I was taught that you carry yourself PROPERLY when you are in your respected dance regalia and at a powwow.
NO MATTER WHAT STYLE OF DANCER YOU WERE!!!
there was a certain way you acted and don't act.... i saw this video and couldn't believe it.!!! it was tasteless and i was embarrassed for those 2 girls.. especially for it 2 be spread around on the internet like that!! how embarrassing for us as native people!

ok... now i hear people saying that switch dancers do worse... which is probably true! but thats' the point of switch dancing! (contrary/clown/heyoka) you switch outfits.. and make fun and take it to the extremes... some even consider the contrary/heyoka dances a type of "ceremony" for healing. And when things do get out of hand (which they have) the elders speak up and let the AD know... and he lets the dancers know to tame it down a bit!!

~n just side not... my great grandma said they should have had a walmart when she was little... it doesn't mean its less traditional...or modernized.... just easier access to more choices

LOL. Exactly. We're on the same page here girlie.
As my great granny said, No, "Buck dancing."
She was trying to say "Break Dancing." (That's old too, from like what, the 70's!)

[*~Sparkylou~*]

I like the things that u have to say anishtradish :) Alot of people try too hard to be "superndn" or something lol..we just have to be who we are in this day and age while respecting and honoring our traditions at the same time~I think that both can be done....that being said, I would NEVER be caught dead dancing like those girls did in their outfit, sacred or not!!! Thats just me & their is a time and a place for a lady to act like that. BUT, in my opinion, the true burden lied on the AD and other adults around to guide the younger people and they obviously just let it happen so that's a shame...

[IlnuSoldier]

Native Culture not "interesting enough" for young people

The real issue here is that so many older folks are rigid and close-minded...

and the young people react to this.

Native culture is not interesting enough for many young people anymore--- in competition with all the things that western culture offers--- the young people WANT to be vital and vivid, yet so much native culture seems like it is fragile and handled with kit gloves.

This is a sign that if native culture does not loosen up and have some serious LIFE injected back into it, the young ones will walk away from it.

They WILL walk away from it.

It is not their job to learn the culture, it is OUR job to teach it to them.

It is not their job to fall in love with it, it is OUR job to show them the value.

It is very simple : Either we offer them something that can compete with the western seduction... or we loose.

We have to be willing to allow the young people to engage in new things and bring their own two cents worth to the table...

If we give a little, then they will be more willing to listen to what we have to offer...

However, what we have to offer better be something REALLY AMAZING...

This is what I was saying in another thread... Native youth are tired and scared that they will end up like the sad and lethargic adults they see... just sitting around the rez with nothing going on and nothing happening... praying to some spook in the sky with an eagle feather...AND NOTHING happens..

How can you expect the youths to respect the ceremonies when they don't appear to work anymore ---- native religion is SO SCARED to take another hit, it is sooo closed up and, again, treated with kit gloves...

that is appears DEAD and USELESS to most of the youth.

We all have to re-figure this out or we will loose our youth to the western religion, culture, and ways.

These things are just the tip....

[Josiah]

[QUOTE=tomdancingotter;1259547]

Check out this article: -Hip Hop & Pow Wows Collide -


Santa Fe – Early this year a video of two unidentified young females dancing at an outdoor pow-wow in their regalia, hip-hop style, was circulated among Native Americans all over the nation. Since then, their dancing has been the center of controversy among pow-wow goers.


Hip hop vs Powwow? It`s a chance for us to show our children that we are open to hear them and to see them.
Is that hip hop thing a development from the " mighty mouse" songs or the 49er - (One of the questions I would ask for)

When the kids during the breaks show these things, maybe it`s our job to go to them and show them, how important their regalia is and ask for ideas to protect and respect their regalia.
To teach someone means also to learn all the time.
With respect.

This reminds me of a story
I was at a Powwow in Tulsa late last year and during supper break they had a native hiphop group singing
Lots of kids and young adults were gathered around listening
There was this young girl who was dressed in her ndn clothes got up on stage with them and was showing some dance moves when her mother walked up and motioned for her to get down off that stage
Later on she apoligized for disrepecting her elders
and that she should have taken off her dance clothes first...

This Parent of the girl felt that she should not be dancing in that way in them clothes that they should be shown respect

[tomdancingotter]

i SHE WAS BEING DISRESPECTFUL JINGLE DRESS IS A PRAYER IF SHE WANTED TO DANCE IN THIS MANOR SHE SHE HAVE PUT ON STREET CLOTHES--BUT I HAVE SEEN SWITCH DANCE IN JINGLE TOO

That`s one idea, to tell them that they have to put on street clothes - and show them how important a jingle dress is.
With respect

[shadowoman]

i SHE WAS BEING DISRESPECTFUL JINGLE DRESS IS A PRAYER IF SHE WANTED TO DANCE IN THIS MANOR SHE SHE HAVE PUT ON STREET CLOTHES--BUT I HAVE SEEN SWITCH DANCE IN JINGLE TOO

[tomdancingotter]

[QUOTE=dancingfancy;855942]Check out this article: -Hip Hop & Pow Wows Collide -


Santa Fe – Early this year a video of two unidentified young females dancing at an outdoor pow-wow in their regalia, hip-hop style, was circulated among Native Americans all over the nation. Since then, their dancing has been the center of controversy among pow-wow goers.


Hip hop vs Powwow? It`s a chance for us to show our children that we are open to hear them and to see them.
Is that hip hop thing a development from the " mighty mouse" songs or the 49er - (One of the questions I would ask for)

When the kids during the breaks show these things, maybe it`s our job to go to them and show them, how important their regalia is and ask for ideas to protect and respect their regalia.
To teach someone means also to learn all the time.
With respect.

[Ndn8tive]

[

[ballin_n_shawlin]

my two sense worth.... I was taught that you carry yourself PROPERLY when you are in your respected dance regalia and at a powwow.
NO MATTER WHAT STYLE OF DANCER YOU WERE!!!
there was a certain way you acted and don't act.... i saw this video and couldn't believe it.!!! it was tasteless and i was embarrassed for those 2 girls.. especially for it 2 be spread around on the internet like that!! how embarrassing for us as native people!

ok... now i hear people saying that switch dancers do worse... which is probably true! but thats' the point of switch dancing! (contrary/clown/heyoka) you switch outfits.. and make fun and take it to the extremes... some even consider the contrary/heyoka dances a type of "ceremony" for healing. And when things do get out of hand (which they have) the elders speak up and let the AD know... and he lets the dancers know to tame it down a bit!!

~n just side not... my great grandma said they should have had a walmart when she was little... it doesn't mean its less traditional...or modernized.... just easier access to more choices

[pow-wow person]

reaction reply

now im gonna have to strongly disagree with you. what these girls are doing is wrong, now i also dont know much about jingle or fancy shaw dancing, but i do know they are very sacred things. if they wanna go out and dance like that, thats fine, just dont do it in dance cloths, they are sacred things and should be used for the sacred dances they are intended for. if they want to dance like that, they should do it in their street clothes, i dont think anyone would have any problem with that.

Seems to me there are an awful lot of Cherokees who are 1/500th degree. But that is another topic..here I believe powwows are an opportunity to enjoy life native style and doing that by dancing has always been a good idea to me. It started as a way of holding on to our way of life during a time of suppression of native american ways by the government. But, I didn't like the hip hop stuff it didn't show me any kind of style or was anything about native just the same ol' stuff off the street.

[anishtradish]

back in the day, woodlands tradish dancers did not wear bustles

I know we didn't use big bustles, but we did have some bustles, they were small loose hang bustles. Big style bustles came from down south. But to say we didn't wear bustles is false, because some did, they just were not like full wing bustles we use now.

I never said I was 100% 'traditional'. If I thought I was, I wouldn't use glass beads, or velvet, large bustles, bells, metal beads, angora fur, sewing threads, fabrics, .... even safety pins and duct tape.

[Kaina1128]

everyone believes that jingle dress dancers added ornamentation, appliqué, and bead work to their dresses to increase chances of winning at powwow competitions. women in many nations have been doing that to their dresses for centuries. now things are brighter and more elaborate because we have greater access to different materials.



even with this ornamentation, the traditions of the dress are to be honored and women who wear them should always carry themselves in a good way when wearing it.

[Kaina1128]

I believe culture doesn't really die out, it just adapts and changes. Even if we loose our languages and religions and ceremonies and stuff, we still have a culture of some sort, just not as 'traditional' as it was at one time.


I mean back to jingle for example, jingle dresses are supposed to only be one color, of the 4 original colors, and the women could not wear leggings, or use any type of fan, in the Ojibwe tradition and a lot of the great lakes area tribes, a woman couldn't even have an eagle fan period, because a woman was considered too powerful to use eagle feathers.

But look at any powwow today, and look at the jingle dresses. There all different colors, fancy, have all sorts of designs and patterns, beaded leggings, and most of them carry fans. Now would you say that those people lost parts of their culture, because they don't stick to those old original teachings?

you cant stop culture from changing. I mean our ways today are different from the ways lets say 50 years ago, and the ways from 50 years ago were different from the ways 150 years ago. Just like language changes, culture does as well. Especially now that we have giant powwows that people come from different tribes and over the years things just mix and change. I mean like we have people out west dancing jingle, we have people out east chicken dancing.... things just mix, and even the mainstream American culture mixes in with our powwows like how people sometimes do mix modern dance moves into their powwow style. I mean look at the bright florescent colors people use and the fancy cut glass beads. Now if someone wanted to be 100% 'traditional' they wouldn't use things like glass beads, and metal bells and velvet and satin and things that we didn't have before white people came here, because it's not "traditional' lol.


so my question to everyone else is ... how long does it take for something new that gets introduced into a culture, to end up becoming what someone would consider 'traditional'?

just something to think about.

back in the day, woodlands tradish dancers did not wear bustles