smudging

[Steffan Redhawk]

do you think it's a good idea to try and find an elder at the pow wow i'm going to soon? or is that something where i should wait to be offered to be mentored?

First, I'd like to say I'm not of your people. The advice I give MIGHT not be the way people of your blood work, Josiah might be able to give better advice, I'm not saying take this with a grain of salt, as I've given this advice many times, and I will continue to do so.

Do not wait for someone to approach you, because it will not be the sort of person you should consort with.

Ask around - Talk to your peers about a teacher, or elder, find someone who many people feel is knowledgable.. Don't just ask the first person you happen to stumble across... This kinda gets rolled into the previous sentence, changes are it won't be the type of person you should consort with.

Once you've asked around and have settled on someone to talk to, goto them in a 'good' way. This means come bearing gifts, cigarettes, sama, feathers, whatever you feel would be appropriate, or a little of everything.

From my experience (I've actually been asked by a few people to be their 'teacher') nobody will just come out and say "Why yes, I will show you the way" - It doesn't happen.

Come bearing gifts, and in a good way, ask your questions you are looking for advice on.

Come again when you have more questions...

And again, and again...

Buy this elder dinner, help with their camp, help with their luggage - Treat them well, as this is our way.

---------------------------------------------

Eventually if you have good chemistry, you will ask this person to teach you, and if they are like me, they will deny you, and tell you that they are not ready (of course, I'm not a teacher, nor an elder).. If they are an elder, who is ready to teach, or has before, they may say yes.


If not, you'll have a life long friend who you can always goto for advice, and they might also tell you who could teach you.


--

As with many of my posts, if I've offended anyone with my advice, I do apologize, this is my experience (over 28 years now) in the circle. I've seen many 'wannabe cheifs' going around offering teachings... Avoid people like this, avoid them like the plague.

The information and people you are seeking won't come to you, it is a task just to be in their graces.. (I don't mean to sound like i'm putting anyone on a petistal, so please forgive the likeness) What I mean is our elders and teachers are precious, and not to be taken for granted.



--

I hope this advice helps you, and I just would like to instill that if YOU want to learn, it is YOU that will have to do the work to gain the knowledge you seek. The knowledge is not a gift, it is earned...

Our knowledge is passed over a long period of time. My teacher had told me before he passed that there was nothing more he could teach me that would benefit me, this was around 7 years ago.

The next person that had asked him to be their teacher, he sent to me. I was very honored by this act, although I had turned the invitation down, to this day I still give advice to the person that asked for it.

When I asked my teacher why he sent this person to me, he told me that I was ready to teach, and pass my knowledge down.

To this day I do not agree, perhaps its age? I don't know... Many years will pass before I will ever be a teacher, if ever. Maybe to my children until they're ready to goto someone else.

However - On your way to find your teacher, just remember, being aged doesn't make you a teacher, many young people are just as knowledge as some elders when it comes to the way of the people...

But try to avoid the fruitcakes.

and if your new teacher wants to setup a ceremony to give your ndn name, and it'll only cost about $500 bucks - You should probably turn tail and run in the other direction, then think again about your strategy :)


Good luck my friend.

[SuzzeQ4]

First, I'd like to say I'm not of your people. The advice I give MIGHT not be the way people of your blood work, Josiah might be able to give better advice, I'm not saying take this with a grain of salt, as I've given this advice many times, and I will continue to do so.

Do not wait for someone to approach you, because it will not be the sort of person you should consort with.

Ask around - Talk to your peers about a teacher, or elder, find someone who many people feel is knowledgable.. Don't just ask the first person you happen to stumble across... This kinda gets rolled into the previous sentence, changes are it won't be the type of person you should consort with.

Once you've asked around and have settled on someone to talk to, goto them in a 'good' way. This means come bearing gifts, cigarettes, sama, feathers, whatever you feel would be appropriate, or a little of everything.

From my experience (I've actually been asked by a few people to be their 'teacher') nobody will just come out and say "Why yes, I will show you the way" - It doesn't happen.

Come bearing gifts, and in a good way, ask your questions you are looking for advice on.

Come again when you have more questions...

And again, and again...

Buy this elder dinner, help with their camp, help with their luggage - Treat them well, as this is our way.

---------------------------------------------

Eventually if you have good chemistry, you will ask this person to teach you, and if they are like me, they will deny you, and tell you that they are not ready (of course, I'm not a teacher, nor an elder).. If they are an elder, who is ready to teach, or has before, they may say yes.


If not, you'll have a life long friend who you can always goto for advice, and they might also tell you who could teach you.


--

As with many of my posts, if I've offended anyone with my advice, I do apologize, this is my experience (over 28 years now) in the circle. I've seen many 'wannabe cheifs' going around offering teachings... Avoid people like this, avoid them like the plague.

The information and people you are seeking won't come to you, it is a task just to be in their graces.. (I don't mean to sound like i'm putting anyone on a petistal, so please forgive the likeness) What I mean is our elders and teachers are precious, and not to be taken for granted.



--

I hope this advice helps you, and I just would like to instill that if YOU want to learn, it is YOU that will have to do the work to gain the knowledge you seek. The knowledge is not a gift, it is earned...

Our knowledge is passed over a long period of time. My teacher had told me before he passed that there was nothing more he could teach me that would benefit me, this was around 7 years ago.

The next person that had asked him to be their teacher, he sent to me. I was very honored by this act, although I had turned the invitation down, to this day I still give advice to the person that asked for it.

When I asked my teacher why he sent this person to me, he told me that I was ready to teach, and pass my knowledge down.

To this day I do not agree, perhaps its age? I don't know... Many years will pass before I will ever be a teacher, if ever. Maybe to my children until they're ready to goto someone else.

However - On your way to find your teacher, just remember, being aged doesn't make you a teacher, many young people are just as knowledge as some elders when it comes to the way of the people...

But try to avoid the fruitcakes.

and if your new teacher wants to setup a ceremony to give your ndn name, and it'll only cost about $500 bucks - You should probably turn tail and run in the other direction, then think again about your strategy :)


Good luck my friend.

good advice...I'd run from anyone who wants to give you anything right away, Also I tend to be suspicious of anyone offering an NDN name (even if for free).

[Steffan Redhawk]

good advice...I'd run from anyone who wants to give you anything right away, Also I tend to be suspicious of anyone offering an NDN name (even if for free).

Very valid point.

[steelemagnolia63]

Steffan, very good advice... :)

[xxkristenxmariexx]

thanks. i'm not sure about what you said about bearing gifts. like tobacco, will they sell tobacco at pow wows to minors? i know it is sacred when we use it the right way, a poison the wrong, but will they let me buy it? and if so would buying someone tobacco be a good thing to do? or herbs in general? i'm not sure how i would give it to them though; i don't want to sound like a suck-up offering it to people.

[Josiah]

thanks. I'm not sure about what you said about bearing gifts. like tobacco, will they sell tobacco at pow wows to minors? i know it is sacred when we use it the right way, a poison the wrong, but will they let me buy it? and if so would buying someone tobacco be a good thing to do? or herbs in general? I'm not sure how i would give it to them though; i don't want to sound like a suck-up offering it to people.

It was not known you were a minor so the tobacco would not be appropriate
Young ones normally would not be asking such questions of people they did not know. I dont believe you would be taken seriously even if you were to give a hundred pounds of tobacco.
Nothing against you as a person
But this is a matter that should be taught slowly over time and many years
and one so young as you have many things to learn one of which is
Patience...

[Steffan Redhawk]

You wouldn't look, or sound like a suckup. Now, I do have to keep in mind that you are 13, however most young ladies are far more mature than young men (I have a 13 year old nephew who acts 5....) Anyway... A gift given with respect and in a good way, will never be misconstrude. Gifts given while expecting something in return, aren't typically accepted from what I've seen and done in the past.

An offering is typical with questions. If you came to me, and wanted to know the history of my family, or a peice of my regalia, or you had questions about something you have seen me do, typically you would offer me a gift, and ask if I had time to answer some questions for you.

In this case, I would want your parents to be present (I'm a man, your a young woman) but still, I would answer your questoins because you came to me in a 'good' way.

As for purchasing tobacco as a minor, you don't nessecarily need to purchase it, as there are often prayer ties availiable, or you could have your parents buy some tops tobacco, something of that nature.

Another offerings that I have received is a bottle of water, frybread, pop, once even a bandana... I actually had a young man (he was maybe 10, I was 19 or 20) bring me a taco, pop, and later on a snow cone before he asked me anything.... (I guess I intimidated him) but this was pretty amazing:

boy: Do you remember me?
me: Yes, you just brought me a snow cone, and earlier you brought me lunch.
boy: You looked hungry, was it good?
me: It was great, I really enjoyed it.
boy: My mom made it for you.
me: Your mom is a great cook, I'll make sure I visit her for dinner.
boy: Introduced himself
me: Introduced myself
boy: Can I ask you a question?
me: You just did.
boy: (confused for a minute, then laughed) I noticed when your dancing you often look angry, I was wondering, are you angry?
me: No, I'm actually very happy, most of the time when I look angry, its because sweat builds up on my lip, and i'm trying to blow it off
boy: Seriously?
me: Yeah, I hate padding my face down when its painted, and I'm not wearing my headband today, its got a sweatband in it much like my armbands and cuffs do (I took them off and showed him)
boy: Okay, I was watching you earlier and told my dad you looked mad, and he told me to come find out if you were or not.. can I ask you another question?
me: Sure.
boy: Could you show me how to make a breastplate like yours?
me: I'm not sure I'll have the time, but come find me during dinner break, and you can check it out and I'll try to answer any questoins you have.
boy: Thanks alot

He then shook my hand and walked away... 10 years old.

This was about 8 years ago, but this little guy has stuck in my mind...

He did come find me during lunch, put on my breastplate, and was amazed at how light it was (I use plastic instead of bone, as many mens tradish do with full length breastplates) he was wondering how i got the bone yellow, and i told him my secret, and he was wondering how the middle of the yellow bones where all white, and i told him my secret... He was very satisfied...


About 2 months later I saw him at another pow wow, this time in illinois... He brought me one of his moms great tacos again and asked if i had time to talk to him.

Smiling with my new taco and appearant food source, of course I had time for him. He pointed to some tailfeathers on my breastplate (coopers hawk) that were yellow and black, and asked me what method i used to dye them, and how i got the right shade of yellow.... Telling him what methods I used and how I did my testing, he was very happy with the answers, and asked me if he brought me a tail if I'd dye it for him.

That one I told him I could not do, I did however tell his father how i did it, and his father said he'd help him out.


THe following year, he had his blue and yellow breastplate, with his blue and black feathers, looked amazing...

He hasn't come to me since then, but I'm sure one day he will :)



but he always came in a good way, and always got the information he was seeking.

[xxkristenxmariexx]

lol, okay so no gifts like that? do you think i would be taken seriously just wanting to hear some cherokee legends? you say patience is a thing needed to learn, but currently i don't feel like i am learning anything of my people. i just want to START learning, and i don't know how to go about doing that.

[xxkristenxmariexx]

that's nice of that boy, i can see how that is considered a good way. when you give gifts should you offer a person if they would like something? say, perhaps, i was going to get myself a drink and i offered the elder i was talking to to buy them one, would that be considered a gift? & i'm sorry but what's a prayer tie? or tops tobacco?

[Steffan Redhawk]

perhaps for now the pop would be the best bet, and yes, that would be considered a gift.

[xxkristenxmariexx]

is that something i'll have to wait and learn about? and okay.

[steelemagnolia63]

ok you have gone from wanting to know about smudging to wanting to know Cherokee legends.... You can't have it all at one time.. it is not the way that this works... one does not gather this information over night...it takes years and years to to learn these things. Most of these things we don't just tell anyone that walks up and starts asking us questions... A lot fo times your question will be answered with a question in order to find out if you are truely ready to listen and learn what we have to tell you.

As I stated before and Josiah stated again... PATIENCE is the first thing that a young person must learn...

Learning the ways of our peoples is not something that is your right to demand but something that you are honored and HUMBLED to learn

[xxkristenxmariexx]

okay, one step at a time. got it.

[Joe G]

As Josiah said, going to water is how we pray, or we take our prayers to the fire when we're at Gatiyo.

The plants we use most often are Cedar and Tobacco, esp "jol' agayvli" but they have VERY VERY specific uses and are not used in, I think, the sense you're referring to here.

I know from your post on buckskin dancing that you're very young, so I will just say; you will probably not find very valuable information over the net about what you're looking for. Not that there aren't MANY people here who are very knowledgeable, but that I think for most of us, things that have to do with medicine aren't shared without a relationship being established personally.

This isn't like a forum on New Age wicca or "paganism" where people freely share what they've read in books or what they have experienced. Many people here were taught these things by their parents, granparents, aunties and uncles and represents an unbroken chain of passing that knowledge down through the generations, and are generally not thought of as things that can just be discussed openly without prayer and personal interaction.

At least that's how it is in my own home community. I don't want to discourage you because it's good that someone so young is wanting to learn, but just handing over some these teachings over the internet is in my mind a bit like sending a loaded gun to someone through the mail. If you handle it without knowledge, you could get really hurt or hurt someone else.

This is as good a post on this topic I have ever seen! Great advice.

[SuzzeQ4]

the boy Steffan told you of probably grrew up learning his culture to at least some extent (i'm guessing by how he handled himself). You will need to startat the begining. To actually learn something takes time. (patience again) It's like in school, you don't get taught a new subject every few minutes or every day. Cause it takes time to learn each lesson before you move onto the next. You need to learn specifically who you are, then who your people are, then the most basic teachings bit by bit. Your traditonal stories will come as needed while learning.