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  • #76
    I am humble! I'm right and everyone else is wrong! Hahaha
    Man am I humble!

    it's cool LuvLumbee, do your thang and may God shine on you.

    Hell, he's gotta shine on me cause he knows I am constantly stumbling in the dark!
    Before you attempt to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you!

    Why do some people bother breathing when you know their brain isn't getting the oxygen?

    Comment


    • #77
      I understand why alot of people have alot of questions about The Lumbee People. I am half Lumbee and grew up in Robeson County. Not to speak for every Lumbee, but I wasn't taught alot about my own people. Maybe those who are from Pembroke were, but I'm from Lumberton(about 10mins) from Pembroke and I wasn't. In my household no lumbee language was taught, sure we had unusual words and a different dialect, but I think that is true for everybody. We were taught a little in school about but Henry Berry Lowery but thats it. What I learned about who I am I learned own my own. My family can only tell you about them and what they were taught not the whole tribe. As for language I think there are a few words that are left, but I don't think we can consider it the Lumbee Language since we have not always been called Lumbee Indians. There has always been questions about the Lums, not only by other people but from Lums themselves. Because there are alot of people in Rob. County who could be from the same family and one claim Lumbee and one claim Tuscarora for example. This is another problem that goes on in Robeson County that alot of people try to steer clear of. But it is still an issue today. I know some Lumbees who claim there are no Tuscaroras in Robeson County, but I do know some who claim Tuscarora and that's what they were raised to be. The Tuscarora language is what they were taught, and those are the traditions that are past down. So all I can tell u is that I am a member of the Lumbee tribe, I was raised a ndn. That is all I have ever known.
      Fool me once, shame on u. Fool me twice, shame on me.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by FancyStar
        I am not saying my views have changed. I just don't recall getting on here and calling people names because they don't agree with my views. It's childish and immature and when I volunteer at the daycare I see it all the time.
        Trust me, I am so NOT innocent it's funny. ( in a sadistic way of course).
        I just get tired of people getting jumped on by Lumbee's when they try to learn more about them. If CYSA and Singerdad are asking questions, maybe they are trying to learn something. They are actually curiouse to learn more about Lumbee ways. Hell , if they want threats they can go steal somebody stash at a Big Cove party!

        Hell, you don't hear us say, Let's take it to the Loop, do you?
        We aren't getting on here saying, Let's solve this Big Cove Style, do you?
        No. you have people asking questions and looking for answers. The only answers they recieve is being called names, Haters, and being downed for the quest for knowledge.

        Dang, what are youns' going to do when the Senate starts asking these questions up on the capital? Are you going to call them ignorant for not knowing? Go ahead call them some haters and threaten to cut them if they ask those questions in Pembroke!
        I'm sure that will help your cause greatly!

        As for my view of the Lumbee's, I have always said and it has been agreed by almost every Lumbee in here one way or another on this board, that Lumbees are not the same as every other recognized tribe. They are not a SPECIFIC tribe. They are a collection of people, with indians mixed in, that lived together in NC and assimilated European ways to become the modern mixture known today as Lumbees. NO, I don't believe Lumbee's are a specific tribe. Yes, I do believe they have indian mixed in there somewhere, but No I don't believe they can claim one tribe. They can't say, they are Cheraw or are Tuscarora. No they are a mixture of different tribes and slaves and white and whatever else was in the region. While the evidence of this Indian ancestory may still be evident in some aspects of Lumbee life today, unfortunately the rest of thier culture is gone.

        I know this will piss off some of you and you'll resort to violence,but hey this is how I feel. I don't feel the need to argue with people about it.

        If you are so interested in proving me wrong, then show some Lumbee honor and diginty and represent your tribe. When people ask you questions, treat them like you want to be treated. If people still treat you disrespectfully, there isn't a damn thing you can do but smile, raise your head high and believe in yourself.
        I have'nt been on here for a few weeks so I couldn't reply to this earlier.


        Personally I have no problem answering questions, so long as people are'nt looking down their nose, when they ask them.


        I'm not offended when people make statements like this when they actually believe them, what irritates me is when they continue to do so no matter what sort of facts are presented proving otherwise.

        You are 100% correct that Lumbees are not like any other tribe in existance.

        Yes we are a mixture of historical tribes and yes you are right that folks (most anyway) can't just claim Tuscarora, Cheraw, keyauwee, etc.. But you are wrong to say we are not a specific tribe. These tribes merged a very long time ago becoming one people, one tribe, and one nation i.e. Lumbee(this is the case for a lot more tribes than you might care to believe).


        Also, I'll have to disagree with your statement that we're a collection of people with Indians mixed in, for in actuality we are a collection of Indians with "others (not as much as you may think either)" mixed in.

        Fancystar, maybe you believe this because of things you heard, maybe it's because of things you may have read, who knows maybe its because of the impression made on you by a few of the Lumbees that you were able to meet, I don't know.

        I only hope that folks like you can take the advice given earlier. Come here one time (and not for a pow wow either)and try walking in our shoes before you judge, Go to a Lumbee community like Pembroke, Prospect, or Saddletree, and visit one of our schools or attend one of our churches. Doing that would show you a million times more than me or anyone else could ever type into this computer.
        Last edited by lumbeedancer; 06-23-2004, 07:00 PM.

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        • #79
          But you weren't Lumbee's this whole time. You didn't call yourselves Lumbee's until after 1937 when the EBCI sued you to stop calling yourselve's Eastern Cherokee. While it is my understanding that this was not a name chosen by this collection of people rather by the government, you still claimed to be eastern cherokee's. When looking for a new name to call yourselves you picked Lumbee because of the major river that flowed near your residence. So the tribe " Lumbee" does not actually have any historic records as they did not exist as Lumbee's until the 1940's.
          With every other tribe you can find an exact reference of them in historic documents by the same name they are called today. This is the major arguement, in my belief.
          While the question of whether or not there is indian blood in there isn't so much a question, I believe the true question is whether or not there is enough of any specific tribe to justify the recognition of a group of mixed people as being a specified Native American Tribe.
          Have a great day.
          Before you attempt to beat the odds, make sure you can survive the odds beating you!

          Why do some people bother breathing when you know their brain isn't getting the oxygen?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by FancyStar
            But you weren't Lumbee's this whole time. You didn't call yourselves Lumbee's until after 1937 when the EBCI sued you to stop calling yourselve's Eastern Cherokee. While it is my understanding that this was not a name chosen by this collection of people rather by the government, you still claimed to be eastern cherokee's. When looking for a new name to call yourselves you picked Lumbee because of the major river that flowed near your residence. So the tribe " Lumbee" does not actually have any historic records as they did not exist as Lumbee's until the 1940's.
            With every other tribe you can find an exact reference of them in historic documents by the same name they are called today. This is the major arguement, in my belief.
            While the question of whether or not there is indian blood in there isn't so much a question, I believe the true question is whether or not there is enough of any specific tribe to justify the recognition of a group of mixed people as being a specified Native American Tribe.
            Have a great day.
            When whites moved to Robeson county (over 200 yrs ago) those tribes that make up the present day Lumbee tribe were living as one people. We were one people before White's recorded history, which quite frankly constitutes as a historical tribe in itself. The BIA requirement merely states a connection needs to be made to a historical tribe or tribes that have combined, although some might want to debate about which one was the strongest influence, clearly there is no real question that we can meet that requirement.

            The Seminole are recognized as a historic tribe when in all actuality they are Creek combined with a few others. What is the difference between them and us?

            The Lumbee name might be new, but the people it refers to have been around for ages. They may be pretty enculturated but they were still a sovereign when first discovered by whites and never once did they sign it away. Argue about the name all you want but the people are still the same people and have the same history and birthrights no matter what sort of white mans stereotype they are supposed to be held to.

            Indian people are Indian people and should be recognized and respected as such no matter what. How stoic you appear or stereotypical you act hasn't got a damn thing to do with what your blood is or what your inherent birthrights are!

            You believe that the amount of culture we lost somehow makes us less Indian than you folks, but in all actuality we're not really that far behind you people.

            Yes you folks have a language but 90% don't even speak it.

            Yes you guys have some ceremonies, but for most of them you don't even remember the meaning. i.e. Booger dance for example. If you look at the big picture and compare the amount of culture you guys had 500 yrs ago to what you have today, your barely a notch ahead of us. You folks might have things here and there that make you appear or feel more Indian on the surface, but in actuality your no better or worse than we are.

            And quite frankly I don't think its appropriate for a tribe with a 1/16 blood quantum, to be calling someone else mixed. True we don't have a blood quantum, but I can gaurantee you that the magority (90% or more) of our tribe could easily fit your requirements.

            I'm not trying to bash you folks, but you really need to stop looking down your noses at people and take a reality check.

            Yeah its good to be proud of your people and what they have accomplished and held onto, but, as was said earlier, judging people can backfire in your face.


            And CYSA as far as us being listed as mullato or freed blacks, not true, many were listed as free persons of color yes (which is funny because so were some Cherokees), but there is a difference. If you look at court cases involving Lumbees in the early 1800s there were clear distinctions made between persons of color (as Lumbees were called) and freed blacks. In cases where blacks were prosecuted (such as bearing firearms), Lumbees were often let off on the basis that those laws only applied to persons of color colored by African blood.

            And if they were'nt considered colored by african blood, please explain to me what else it could have been?
            Last edited by lumbeedancer; 06-24-2004, 06:59 PM.

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            • #81
              nice post lumbeedancer-------u sure do know your stuff!
              i wrote a research paper on those court cases for a class not too long ago--you're right--there were clear distinctions!!!
              No one can make you feel inferior w/o your consent-Eleanor Roosevelt

              Comment


              • #82
                Interesting discussion - Indians are still fighting among each other..

                A little about myself - I grew up in Flagstaff AZ & Navajo REZ. I joined the Navy (9 yrs of honorable service) and then graduated from a university in NC and now working as a manufacturing manager for a large pharmaceutical company in Virginia.

                I have visited some of the small tribes scattered between South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland and I see how proud they are about their Native heritage and its good to see. "The state recognized tribes are Indians even though they are not Federally Recognized." Yes their are some mixed heritages, but they can't help that. They are completely surrounded by whites and blacks, its not like the rez. They don't have treaties with congress (out of conflict etc.). Most of them did not have a fighting chance against all the white settlers. Now you see other Indians putting these state recognized tribes down, that is wrong. Why.., well maybe its in our nature to fight against each other (like a bunch crabs in a bucket). All tribes have been through many obstacles to get to where they are today. Just trying to survive in this country. But its pretty sad when you see other indians throwing cheap shots at each other just like old times. Having a treaty (federal recognition) with the government or being an good powwow dancer does not make you a super - Indian. I certainly don't see it that way.

                My Point -- "One thing that just gets to me the most is one indian doing another indian wrong." That is how we lost our native lands." You read, hear stories and see movies about one group of indians siding with the white soldiers (as scouts)and cheating out their neighboring tribe. I still see this going on today, back home, on road, in the newspapers and even on the internet.

                Now its casino's - lots of money involved, which means lots of fighting between all kinds of Indians. So federal recognition is a big deal now. But casinos, federal recognition or state recognition is really not going to make us indians to stick together. Powwows too - when you put money in the middle of it, watch out, you better put your helment on.

                I like to see indians working together more, and watching each other's back. Perhaps this is just too much to ask for.
                So watch what you say about other people or other natives. "Like my grandmother use to say, be careful about what you think or say about other people, because look where negative energy (wickedness) is coming from"...HMMMM..

                Next time you're at a pow-wow, give up your seat, or get someone a cup of water for an elder or someone less fortunate. Don't be like those sorry indians at the gathering of nations (NM) pow-wow that were claiming 20 seats for their friends (by taping them up or putting blankets over them) who were too hung over (from partying all night) to come back to the powwow. The chairs stayed covered / taped up the whole weekend. Meanwhile elders are standing for hours on their feet, and you keep hearing (over the speakers) we indians like to honor our elders or lets hear an honor song for this or that....Man that is just wrong...

                I have much more to say but perhaps another time or somewhere else.
                :blow:

                Comment


                • #83
                  Lumbee Culture, where is it?

                  Lumbee stealing another identity? Actually that thought could be applied to many tribes if you are being truly technical about things. But in reality this is more of a migration of ideas. Practically every Tribe has borrowed or used something from another in time. For example we all can give instances of one Tribe using or doing something that can be attibuted to anothre Tribe.

                  I do love my people and my Tribe, and I will be the first Lumbee to admit that "...most of our own people don't know much about our own people..." That is a very hypocritical concept and for the most part I feel it is The Lumbee's worst fault.

                  You could even see it this past weekend at the Lumbee Powwow. There was not much Lumbee Culture. All the music was Northen or Southern Plains songs, all the dances and dance categories were typical modern pan-powwow protocol. Most of the dancers were dressed in Northern Traditional, Grass, Jingle, etc. The only Lumbee influence in clothing was some women in Lumbee Dresses, but even some of them did not follow the Coastal or Peidmont Dress style, instead they were more Plains Cherokee or Plains Cloth in style. Finally, while many of the vendors were Lumbee, they did not have much Lumbee Crafts & Art as they should. Instead the vendors were loaded with Plains and Southwest Art, wall hangings, dream cathers, pictures, and pottery; and I did not see one vendor with Lumbee or Southeastern jewerly, it was all Southwest Silver and Turquoise.

                  Don't get me wrong, I love the Crafts and Art of the Plains, Southwest, Northwest, East, ARtic and more, but it is not our Art!

                  So I see my people in a geat dilema. WE have a rich and varied Lumbee History and Culture. We should follow that and be proud of that.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    LG... did you read the article? This has to do with the infamous 22... those 22 people that were recognized as indians. The original tester proved they were indian by means of cranial bumps and wether their hair got curly when wet or could hold a pencil in it...but never said which tribe they were... one bia document says they were tuscarora another says they were'nt... but in nearly all the cases, they were saying one sibling in a family was indian and the other was'nt....
                    Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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                    • #85
                      lowry gang

                      There are all kinds of theories about what we know or don't about ourselves as human beings...the problems that arise in Society generallly regarding race usually arise because one race or culture has to compare itsefl to another.... I say this because I have a theory about Lumbee people, My people.

                      Its not that Lumbee's generally don't know anything about our culture. Its more that we aren't brought up in a world where we have to or are given the oppurtunity compare ourselves to "others".

                      As I've said over and over agian....I didn't know the answers to questions like..."what is Lumbee food" or "What is a traditional Lumbee Community"? I took me 9 weeks to figure out how to answer those questions at 18 yrs. old. But I was 17hrs away and among 25 very supportive members of other Tribes. Its not that they taught me anything..they simply gave me the tools I needed to define my community the way Western Society defines other Native communities.....

                      Our kids and other members know as much as any other tribal members around the country...they just don't have to go around shouting...Here is the Lumbee language, here is the lumbee culture...

                      As for the powwow this weekend...after talking to about 6 of my friends (non-NC indians) I realized that Lumbee culture abounded left and right....the saturday evening feast....found at many powwows....at a Lumbee church to honor vistors....There isn't a more Lumbee cultural activity...how many times in a Lumbee child's life does this happpen.....?

                      The outpouring of goodfeeling for the visitors was defintily the Lumbee way...welcoming and accepting...

                      Powwow dancing is not our "traditional way" but who gets to define traditiion...certainly not one Lumbee and certainly not outsiders....

                      In california...I felt the outreach from several committee members for my help or my advice or MOst importantly to make me feel included and missed in a way i haven't in quite a while. If a Powwow, a non-Lumbee acitive, brings about some serious Lumbee behavior (keeping our community together despite distance) then I say here here and more of it....

                      So as to the lack of Lumbeeness you saw this weekend....maybe we should stop looking from the outside and start feeling on the inside... This goes along with my invitation to visit our communities...stop looking on the outside and join us for a day or weekend. Get involved in the activiites....come to church with us if you're not lumbee...and hand out some water at the powwow if you are...you might be surprised at what you feel...and in turn what you see...

                      Just my two cents...yet again...

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I think you hit the nail on the head and did a great job of realizing what tradition and culture is for you guys!! Sometimes when we are young we can't see past the outsiders' definition of what they think it is and sorry but for all the similarities there are in our 500+ nations, there are 3x that many differences and each of us have our own little things that define us as to who we are.

                        I just saw this smilie and had to use it LOL.. it reminds me of when I was a kid and the adult women would be gathered around a table drinking coffee or tea after the kids were in bed, jackjawing to the wee hours! I always envied that women together time when I was a kid, but now I am one of the adults and it's as much fun as I thought it would be.. heheheh.
                        Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Lumbee Culture

                          Don't cut to much to the quick. I did not say anything about no Lumbee Culture at the powwow. Nor did I say anything about it not being a good or great powwow. And by the way I am Lumbee, how dare someone even question that in a PM to me last night. I chose Lowry Gang as the call sign becuase we (my brothers and I) did 4 years of extensive research to find that two family members were original members of Henry's Gang, one a Locklear and one an Oxendine.

                          BlackBear, yes I read the article, I was simply stating other concepts of the title thread. Thanks for the insight.

                          There were some traditions of the Lumbee at the powwow: The togetherness, the spirtuality, the friendship, the bonding, and so forth. That is great and it is the internal culture that can be argured by many to be more important even regardless of the culture.

                          But there was a lot of Lumbee Culture that was not there. Would it hurt for the Vendors to have more Lumbee Art, Lumbee Pottery, Lumbee Textiles, Lumbee Patchwork, Lumbee Pine Work, etc., or some South East styles of the same? Would it hurt to have some Regalia more fitting of the Lumbee or the South East Tribes at the turn of the 18th or 19th Century? Would it hurt to have the Drums know a few South East Songs, Would it hurt to have any of these things? Of course not. That is all I was tying to get across as a point in regards to the use of other cultures.

                          Some see the powwow and the outward part as "Indian." I found that out while reading many threads and posts here at powwows.com. It is sad to say that many believe that all over the country too. We should all know that is not the case. But we still have the uniqueness of both our inner and outward aspects of our culture. Somtimes it is nice to see both.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Disclaimer: I love powwows too but see some problems......

                            Lowry Gang & Ivypi,
                            You've both made really great & valid points. My concern is for Lumbee kids who grow up in cities and for the most part, concentrate on the powwow aspect. (And, you're right, there are LUMS down home who are in the dark too.)You're starting to see 1/2 or 3/4 white Lumbees away from home who don't know anything about Henry Berry Lowry, the river, the college, our community histories, our leaders, our herbs/medicines, our baskets, our lye soap, farming, quilting & the social aspect, gourds, etc. etc. etc. But, they can tell you every intricacy about a powwow. That's the problem I see with Pan-Indianness. It's destroying individual tribes' cultures. Native people have always been diverse; that's the beauty of us. When you start homogenizing our individuality is when it gets dangerous. It's great to share but you have to know your history and identity and always work to have that @ the forefront. Hey, at least they had an "old school phrase" contest @ the powwow! :) As we Lums who've had the luxury of being immersed in "our" culture, it's AWESOME and me & people like Lowry Gang & Ivypi and many other LUMS will definitely work to see that it's passed on to future generations..............

                            Another thing I don't like about Lums and powwowing is that they've accepted it as a lifestyle, as their "job". Lumbees have always prided themselves on educating their people (i.e Normal School = UNCP) and now powwow indians talk junk about Lumbees who see the importance in going to college rather than being consumed by traveling to every powwow and making "ends meet". I can tell you that a lot of Lumbees down home (as well as those who live in cities/other places) do not like that, and after all, a lot of them don't embrace the powwows (especially older generations) b/c let's face it, it's a fairly new thing (1970's) for Lums. They do like to see their children marry Lumbees, get good educations, work hard and stay humble. Maybe I'm in the minority but this is how myself, and many other Lumbees were raised.
                            Last edited by geronimo; 05-11-2005, 03:33 PM.
                            No one can make you feel inferior w/o your consent-Eleanor Roosevelt

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Hmmm?

                              Just curious,
                              What's the point of digging this old thread back up? It sounds to me like the new posts would fit better on a new thread.
                              Fish eyed fool!

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by geronimo
                                Lowry Gang & Ivypi,
                                You've both made really great & valid points. My concern is for Lumbee kids who grow up in cities and for the most part, concentrate on the powwow aspect. (And, you're right, there are LUMS down home who are in the dark too.)You're starting to see 1/2 or 3/4 white Lumbees away from home who don't know anything about Henry Berry Lowry, the river, the college, our community histories, our leaders, our herbs/medicines, our baskets, our lye soap, farming, quilting & the social aspect, gourds, etc. etc. etc. But, they can tell you every intricacy about a powwow. That's the problem I see with Pan-Indianness. It's destroying individual tribes' cultures. Native people have always been diverse; that's the beauty of us. When you start homogenizing our individuality is when it gets dangerous. It's great to share but you have to know your history and identity and always work to have that @ the forefront. Hey, at least they had an "old school phrase" contest @ the powwow! :) As we Lums who've had the luxury of being immersed in "our" culture, it's AWESOME and me & people like Lowry Gang & Ivypi and many other LUMS will definitely work to see that it's passed on to future generations..............

                                Another thing I don't like about Lums and powwowing is that they've accepted it as a lifestyle, as their "job". Lumbees have always prided themselves on educating their people (i.e Normal School = UNCP) and now powwow indians talk junk about Lumbees who see the importance in going to college rather than being consumed by traveling to every powwow and making "ends meet". I can tell you that a lot of Lumbees down home (as well as those who live in cities/other places) do not like that, and after all, a lot of them don't embrace the powwows (especially older generations) b/c let's face it, it's a fairly new thing (1970's) for Lums. They do like to see their children marry Lumbees, get good educations, work hard and stay humble. Maybe I'm in the minority but this is how myself, and many other Lumbees were raised.

                                I hear you GEronimo...although I have to admit...I've never run into anyone criticizing my education on the powwow trail...which I admit I hit pretty hard .... IN fact....I'm graduating on this Sunday and celbrating that graduation at the powwow the next Sunday with many of my folks from home....ALL the way in LA....

                                After which I will promptly take my happy lumbee self home....and I hope I never feel like I have to compromise my professional self/with my powwow self.....
                                Last edited by Ivypi; 05-11-2005, 10:33 PM.

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