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  • #16
    I don't know in your towns. But most folks that abuse alcohol, maybe not so much drugs, only look for a flop and a cot. Sing and pray for their supper at a Mission, on skidrow, mostly. Scrounge anybody for the price of a bottle of wine. Then they are happy for a while. But really they are about down in life as one can be. Most never make it up to a level that they are able to function again. Just a bottle of wine, and a flop and a cot. So goes their lives. IMOGES

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Gail405
      I don't know in your towns. But most folks that abuse alcohol, maybe not so much drugs, only look for a flop and a cot. Sing and pray for their supper at a Mission, on skidrow, mostly. Scrounge anybody for the price of a bottle of wine. Then they are happy for a while. But really they are about down in life as one can be. Most never make it up to a level that they are able to function again. Just a bottle of wine, and a flop and a cot. So goes their lives. IMOGES
      Gail, I think God put you on this earth as a hair up my a**, so feel free to think I'm hatin' on you again. As a licensed and certified drug and alcohol counselor your comments are ignorant with a capital "I". This particular post makes it look like the average alcoholic is a skidroad bum, homeless and/or living at the Sally Ann's (Salvation Army) and Union Gospel Missiouons every night. NO!!! Most of them are our brothers, sisters, parents, spouses and they live at home WITH us and we are part of the circle, the problem, the 'triad'. I include us in the problem (my Dad was an alcoholic) because in order to cope, we ourselves develop behaviors; we 'enable' our loved one at times by making excuses when they are passed out and miss work...etc. So, your depiction of the alcoholic is incorrect. FURTHER, AA meetings, Al-Anon meetings (for family), Ala Teen, CODA, Narc-Anon, etc., are no more secret societies than powwows.com. For chrissake, go to a meeting. There isn't secret stuff there. The movement started on using first names to allow people some privacy. You go in there, you get your turn, if you want, to say "My name is Angie, and I'm an alcoholic." You are encouraged to get in touch with your FEELINGS and say how you are actually FEELING at that moment. You are free to share your story, free to update the gathering about how your week has been--or not. It is a supportive, non-judmental group. There is safety and support by being with those in the same demon struggle as you are. The steps are meant to help you work through WHY you are an alcoholic and HELP you turn your life around. You will ALWAYS be in RECOVERY and NEVER a recovered or former alcoholic. The medical community now recognizes alcoholism as a DISEASE. That doesn't mean to say free choice has been taken away--it hasn't. It is the alcoholic's choice if he chooses to take that drink. BUT, the medical community is realizing the majority of individuals are predisposed to alcoholism, it IS genetic. If you have one parent that is an alcoholic you need to be vigilant of how you cope and recreate. If you have two alcoholic parents you REALLY need to be vigilant. That is my intro to ADDICTION 101...
      Damme ape’semmai, "Andabichidaiboonee’ gimmadu’i.Wihyu memme hainjinee’ nahandu’i. Enne wizha sudei’ tsaangu mabizhiahkande," mai.

      The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

      The Creator sure had a strange sense of humor!

      Comment


      • #18
        i wonder why some natives got to that level... actually i don't ...i know a lot of stories.... anywayz..lets not get all upset here eh.... lets discuss this in a rational manner..... yep alcoholism is a disease...






        merry christmas.... i got the last ballet dancerella studio for my young charge ..toodles

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by middle of the sky
          or rely on their own teachings/traditions?
          Should Indians attend AA? :duhh: That's just like asking, "Should Indians with clap take pennicillin?"

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Kiwehnzii
            Should Indians attend AA? :duhh: That's just like asking, "Should Indians with clap take pennicillin?"
            :mrcool: :lol2:
            Damme ape’semmai, "Andabichidaiboonee’ gimmadu’i.Wihyu memme hainjinee’ nahandu’i. Enne wizha sudei’ tsaangu mabizhiahkande," mai.

            The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

            The Creator sure had a strange sense of humor!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by middle of the sky
              i wonder why some natives got to that level... actually i don't ...i know a lot of stories.... anywayz..lets not get all upset here eh.... lets discuss this in a rational manner..... yep alcoholism is a disease...






              merry christmas.... i got the last ballet dancerella studio for my young charge ..toodles
              It's actually more complicated with Skins. PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder or post-colonial stress disorder as it is also known; is the name for a cumulative stress relating to our displacement, decimation, exploitation combined with the abject poverty existing on many a rez where phones and electricity and running water are still NOT the normal standard of living. 'Escaping' into an alcohol or drug haze because one is filled with despair and is hopeless. When that stress disorder is compounded over multiple generations of oppressed Skins, it equates to a very difficult challenge, from a mental health perspective.

              Upset? Just tired of the BS. Honest Injun, Toots.
              Damme ape’semmai, "Andabichidaiboonee’ gimmadu’i.Wihyu memme hainjinee’ nahandu’i. Enne wizha sudei’ tsaangu mabizhiahkande," mai.

              The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

              The Creator sure had a strange sense of humor!

              Comment


              • #22
                Now here I am again.. I didn't copy , your ID down. It's rather difficult for me at times. But Yess Thank God for me and You. To me you have now placed upon the table, something for worth to those alcoholic persons, or substance abusers.
                I feel now that perhaps, you are correct, in stating as to the Triad. I don't feel it is the root cause at this particuliar point. I've never had a problem w/ these 2 ailments. Mine is much different, but can broadly be fitted into the same catagory.
                I might add in my early manhood I ran wrecker for a fairly large operation. About every night some drunk driver would crash into 1 side of a wrecker vehicle parked on the street curbside of the street.I'd confront them as they sat in their vehicle. Telling them to not move the police had already been called. They were a short 2 blocks away. They would plead W/ me let me go. Always I'd say don't try to get away. I never let them go either. I can relate several stories, from my wrecker days similiar. Drunk and in the ditch, stuck, in various other places. running tires off their wheels, because they went flat and the driver was too far gone drunk to know it. Several times they ran the tires past almost the axles. If allowed they would repeat, the same situations at a different place. Our wreckers covered city , and highways, and county roads.
                I have a step nephew. an alcoholic and substance abuser. He told me one time he was on the ceiling of a hospitial, looking down at himself on the operating table. He at times led AA meetings. He had delexia also. But he graduated from highschool some how. He said he taught himself to read. I can honestly say that of all the people that I encountered, alcohol oriented, I didn't meet a person that I couldn't be a friend to. In fact I've had some very good friends, in these catagorys. But for sure I'm dead set against alcohol, and what it contributes to in each ones life in each day that is ticked off.IMO GES

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Washakie Witch
                  Gail, I think God put you on this earth as a hair up my a**, so feel free to think I'm hatin' on you again. As a licensed and certified drug and alcohol counselor your comments are ignorant with a capital "I". This particular post makes it look like the average alcoholic is a skidroad bum, homeless and/or living at the Sally Ann's (Salvation Army) and Union Gospel Missiouons every night. NO!!! Most of them are our brothers, sisters, parents, spouses and they live at home WITH us and we are part of the circle, the problem, the 'triad'. I include us in the problem (my Dad was an alcoholic) because in order to cope, we ourselves develop behaviors; we 'enable' our loved one at times by making excuses when they are passed out and miss work...etc. So, your depiction of the alcoholic is incorrect. FURTHER, AA meetings, Al-Anon meetings (for family), Ala Teen, CODA, Narc-Anon, etc., are no more secret societies than powwows.com. For chrissake, go to a meeting. There isn't secret stuff there. The movement started on using first names to allow people some privacy. You go in there, you get your turn, if you want, to say "My name is Angie, and I'm an alcoholic." You are encouraged to get in touch with your FEELINGS and say how you are actually FEELING at that moment. You are free to share your story, free to update the gathering about how your week has been--or not. It is a supportive, non-judmental group. There is safety and support by being with those in the same demon struggle as you are. The steps are meant to help you work through WHY you are an alcoholic and HELP you turn your life around. You will ALWAYS be in RECOVERY and NEVER a recovered or former alcoholic. The medical community now recognizes alcoholism as a DISEASE. That doesn't mean to say free choice has been taken away--it hasn't. It is the alcoholic's choice if he chooses to take that drink. BUT, the medical community is realizing the majority of individuals are predisposed to alcoholism, it IS genetic. If you have one parent that is an alcoholic you need to be vigilant of how you cope and recreate. If you have two alcoholic parents you REALLY need to be vigilant. That is my intro to ADDICTION 101...
                  You said it ALL WW.... and BTW.. Gail, NO one in this world CHOSE to be an alcoholic... not ones that I have ever met. The ones I know and being one myself (recovering 10 years)
                  knows that it circumstances that take people to that level and are unable to get out because they lack the tools and knowledge to get out of it. Im just grateful that i did have loved ones and family members that helped me outta of it, others are not so lucky. Its all a cycle that goes on and one affecting everyone that you come into contact with. I think AA meetings are good for people that it works for giving them a place to be able to express themselves helping them find strength to meet each new challenging day. For me it wasnt for me, I relied on my more spiritual aspect of healing, praying alot and leaning on my family that always gave me that tough love.

                  ~~~ Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up. ~~~


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Gail here again. I never give up do I. I have several other depictions, than you do. One I've already shared W/ you. I will give you another quickly, good Lord willing.: There was a man that I coached in the refrigeration business. I felt he W/ instructions could complete this particularly simple Job. It was in a bar, dance hall, restaurant type establishment. I dispatched him on the job. I had been there earlier. He was a known drinker, he was charged to do the job as he saw fit, and for the price that pleased him. So he went on the job, did little of nothing, collected a large sum for the work, and sat there all night drinking on the money he had collected for the job. The next day a call came in from the same place. They were irrate. He had used my name, in his charade, The complaint as I recall was the problem W/ them thinking it was me that had collected the money and sat there all night drinking. But You see I don't drink.!! So who was at fault? Go figure.GES Or what was at fault??GES

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I went to Al Anon meetings, myself, being that my father was alcoholic. And, I went to CODA meetings (Co-dependents Anonymous). But, like you AF, I didn't find the 'structure' met my needs as much as the traditional 'culturally competent' groups. You'll find that many relatives and caregivers of addicts/alcoholics are co-dependent. It is just the way we are because most of us were 'grown ups' while we were still children, doing things our parents should've done had they not been stoned or passed out. We are the 'fixers'. We want to make everything 'alright' within our families. Sometimes that end up enabling the addict/alcoholic. Sometimes it results in toxic relationships for us because we drop our 'boundaries', the right to be treated with respect, etc. Many of us stay in relationships too long, making excuses for our domestic abuser or a plain mediocre marriage. We take the 'blame' and responsibility for the health of the relationship totally on our shoulders, saying if we could just look nicer, be more agreeable, never say no in the bedroom, etc. It takes two in a relationship but we tend to forget that...so, if we managed to avoid the likelihood of being alcoholic or addictive behavior with substances ourself, we may still find ourselves practicing addictive behavior in a relationship. Addictive behavior meaning the above and thinking we need this person to survive; when we really don't. Congrats to those of you who have become sober and clean, and congrats to those of you who have broken the chain and managed not to become the next generation of addicts/alcoholics in your families. The holidays can be one of the roughest times for US; stand fast and be strong. Don't let life's disappointments overwhelm you at this time of the year. Don't seclude yourself from other people. Make sure you get out and be around laughter and love. And have a safe, sober and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

                      Angie
                      Damme ape’semmai, "Andabichidaiboonee’ gimmadu’i.Wihyu memme hainjinee’ nahandu’i. Enne wizha sudei’ tsaangu mabizhiahkande," mai.

                      The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

                      The Creator sure had a strange sense of humor!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I used to work for a Native based AA center in the Dallas Ft worth area...they used both traditional and AA methods for recovery..it wasn't a cot and a meal type of unit...but one that a person checked into and stayed for a period of time...to help understand the disease of alcoholism...mind you it is a disease that affects ALL humans and no one ethicity is more prone to it than another..As Natives...we try to help other Natives understand the disease and to deal with it in a way they can relate to.
                        My children have been raised on the Navajo reservation and were led to believe that alcoholism was a Native disease..I had to show them it wasn't...We have to show our children that they don't have to live life a particular way..because it is a stereotype that most people assume is correct..it isn't...
                        there are many other diseases that are common amoung our Peoples...diabetes, heart disease, as well as alcoholism. We have to work together to educate people on proper diet,excercise,and the affects of alcohol...
                        I am fortunate..my father was an alcoholic, he was abusive,he was uncaring... I choose to live my life different than he did..I have used my spirituality to help keep me on the straight and narrow path...I also take being a role model in my community serious..
                        So in light of all this babbling...YES it is right for a Native to seek any kind of help to help with alcoholism...and when they find that help..it is a lifetime journey to keep on the path...its good that there are so many doors out there that a person can get help..be it in our Native communities or the Anglo communities,when ever or whereever...
                        sigpicWe spend a lifetime worrying about if we make a difference....Marines don't have that problem.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Washakie Witch
                          I went to Al Anon meetings, myself, being that my father was alcoholic. And, I went to CODA meetings (Co-dependents Anonymous). But, like you AF, I didn't find the 'structure' met my needs as much as the traditional 'culturally competent' groups. You'll find that many relatives and caregivers of addicts/alcoholics are co-dependent. It is just the way we are because most of us were 'grown ups' while we were still children, doing things our parents should've done had they not been stoned or passed out. We are the 'fixers'. We want to make everything 'alright' within our families. Sometimes that end up enabling the addict/alcoholic. Sometimes it results in toxic relationships for us because we drop our 'boundaries', the right to be treated with respect, etc. Many of us stay in relationships too long, making excuses for our domestic abuser or a plain mediocre marriage. We take the 'blame' and responsibility for the health of the relationship totally on our shoulders, saying if we could just look nicer, be more agreeable, never say no in the bedroom, etc. It takes two in a relationship but we tend to forget that...so, if we managed to avoid the likelihood of being alcoholic or addictive behavior with substances ourself, we may still find ourselves practicing addictive behavior in a relationship. Addictive behavior meaning the above and thinking we need this person to survive; when we really don't. Congrats to those of you who have become sober and clean, and congrats to those of you who have broken the chain and managed not to become the next generation of addicts/alcoholics in your families. The holidays can be one of the roughest times for US; stand fast and be strong. Don't let life's disappointments overwhelm you at this time of the year. Don't seclude yourself from other people. Make sure you get out and be around laughter and love. And have a safe, sober and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

                          Angie
                          Thanks Angie for your words of encouragement :)
                          PeaceKeeper...I think that is really neat to have a Native Based AA that uses both methods.

                          Bless you all

                          ~~~ Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up. ~~~


                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Peacekeeper83
                            I used to work for a Native based AA center in the Dallas Ft worth area...they used both traditional and AA methods for recovery..it wasn't a cot and a meal type of unit...but one that a person checked into and stayed for a period of time...to help understand the disease of alcoholism...mind you it is a disease that affects ALL humans and no one ethicity is more prone to it than another..As Natives...we try to help other Natives understand the disease and to deal with it in a way they can relate to.
                            My children have been raised on the Navajo reservation and were led to believe that alcoholism was a Native disease..I had to show them it wasn't...We have to show our children that they don't have to live life a particular way..because it is a stereotype that most people assume is correct..it isn't...
                            there are many other diseases that are common amoung our Peoples...diabetes, heart disease, as well as alcoholism. We have to work together to educate people on proper diet,excercise,and the affects of alcohol...
                            I am fortunate..my father was an alcoholic, he was abusive,he was uncaring... I choose to live my life different than he did..I have used my spirituality to help keep me on the straight and narrow path...I also take being a role model in my community serious..
                            So in light of all this babbling...YES it is right for a Native to seek any kind of help to help with alcoholism...and when they find that help..it is a lifetime journey to keep on the path...its good that there are so many doors out there that a person can get help..be it in our Native communities or the Anglo communities,when ever or whereever...
                            So true, we shouldn't buy into the 'drunk NDN' stereotype. Alcoholism and addiction cross all ethnicities, and ALL economic groups. There is a particularly excellent treatment facility in Gallup. It turns NO one away, even non-Dineh. I met the Director at an IHS substance abuse conference last June. It should be a model for what our councils COULD do if they put their minds to it. Urban NDNs frequently feel they are totally alone. Most larger cities, though, have 'urban indian health centers'; if we could just get the word out. Something is better than nothing. Pride is a large factor in seeking treatment. Our people are justifiably proud. So, it is hard to seek help when we cannot 'do' for ourselves. This may not be so much of an issue for those still on the rez, but it is a sad fact there are almost as many Skins off the rez, now, as on the rez. If I was at work I could get you the exact stats; but I'm on vacation until the 3rd of January.
                            Damme ape’semmai, "Andabichidaiboonee’ gimmadu’i.Wihyu memme hainjinee’ nahandu’i. Enne wizha sudei’ tsaangu mabizhiahkande," mai.

                            The Creator said, "A foreign race of white people will come, who will become your friends. You should treat them well."

                            The Creator sure had a strange sense of humor!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Kiwehnzii
                              Should Indians attend AA? :duhh: That's just like asking, "Should Indians with clap take pennicillin?"
                              NOW that is the best answer to this question. Thanks KI! As usual, you get to the truth with few words.

                              The only way to say less, is to say more.
                              Kio-Manche
                              Oklahoma Proud!!!

                              Comment

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