New TNT Movie: Into The West

[Dawgwhisperer]

FYI.....I remember seeing something at the end of the series about DVD coming out in October 2005, I think it was October anyway..... Hope that helps.

[Tsiniti]

Uh well I*ve got a question.

Venice_J brought me up to the idea of asking if s1 has recorded the series? Well I live here in Germany and we do not get to see or buy the series @Amazon and i'm really interested in seeing it and would ask if someone feel up to share it with me?

Thx for reply

Even though I have it taped, in order for you to watch it I'd have to have it converted .... I don't know too much about it, but a friend always has to go to some professional place to get stuff converted onto kinda like Beta? When she sends stuff home to her family in Germany. She said to wait until it is released onto DVD, and VHS, and maybe you will be able to buy a version in Germany, or Germany compatible?
What I have is on three different tapes. I can't wait for the DVD version!

I started to make a comment about Abe Wheeler going on to become a Scout for the Army and got killed at Wounded Knee, but that was young Jake ..... hmm now I gotta go back and re-watch!

[Esi]

Uh well I*ve got a question.

Venice_J brought me up to the idea of asking if s1 has recorded the series? Well I live here in Germany and we do not get to see or buy the series @Amazon and i'm really interested in seeing it and would ask if someone feel up to share it with me?

Thx for reply

[geronimo]

Thanks OlowanWi. I'm glad we can all "talk" together and get these different perspectives & life experiences. I guess we can thank the internet for that? Can you imagine a bunch of Indians 50 years ago sharing all of this info? My family was stuck in the fields 24/7. And, considering how VERY clannish Lumbees can be, this site has helped bring a lot of Indian people together, which is really cool. Anyway, thanks for the inside information!!:)

[OlowanWi]

I went back a little through the thread and I'm just curious as to why you are concerned about WK being looked at as a tourist attraction by anyone here. I cannot believe that anyone that frequents this site (that I've "observed" so far) would look at it that way let alone set people up for a "photo op". Personally, I don't see how it could be construed as "your" grief when I already have deep regret and sorrow for all of the horrors that have been endured in general by OUR people. WK is surely one of the most prominent, but not the only event in history that has produced deep agony and pain. I'm not trying to offend you by my comments, but I don't feel like I need to be "advised" on how to conduct myself if I go there. I'm not speaking for anyone else, that's just me.

It was further back in the thread, I should have quoted. My bad. I really don't understand your defensiveness. I did state that this is something that I tell anyone who visits Wounded Knee, because believe it or not, some people need to be told these things. Since this is a public forum, I felt that the message would get out there! I don't know everyone here, so I would never assume that anyone here would do these things, and that is why I DIDN'T say that I believed anyone "here" would behave disrespectfully. I was just using the opportunity to get out a bit of frustration.
Now, about my grief...It is MY grief, and it will be my children's grief,and their children's grief, as long as it is still apart of our history. Our family is faced with the reminder of that grief every time we go to and leave our mother's home. In no way at all did I ever insinuate that Wounded Knee was the ONLY tragedy that occured to Native people. I have read and reread my post, and I cannot see how you construed that. Until you live 30 years at my home, seeing what some of the tourists do while viewing the grave site, and have to go and clean up after them; hide your kids so they aren't herded together for a picture of the "cute little indian kids", and at the same time, tell those very kids what happened right there, around their homes, all those years ago, you don't and can't understand
"My Grief". I can never fully experience the grief and frustration the Cherokee people have, however much I sympathize with them and hold their plight in my heart. It is theirs, as much as the death of a family member is to anyone. Please, don't trivialize for the Lakota people what Wounded Knee did for the individual families here and up north, by making it a blanket, cross the board "Native Tragedy".
To everyone else in this thread, I'm so sorry for disrespecting you. I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I certainly didn't mean for my comments to be made to any particular people specifically. I'll bow out of the thread as gracefully as I can, and hope that you understand the spirit in which my comments on visiting Wounded Knee were made.
Lila Wopila Tanka,
KBaca

[OlowanWi]

Sorry, Wrong

Just a reminder, there is no Cable TV on Pine Ridge, and most can barely afford basic living expenses and thus do not have Satellite either. I've only talked with a few on Pine Ridge that have seen the series.

I think you should come visit Pine Ridge. There is cable, there is internet, and alot of people are doing pretty well, including alot of the grassroots people. Before you get people thinking that we are a pitiful people with no link to the outside world, check your sources and then double check by seeing for yourself. I know so many people at home who have watched the series, and look forward to watching it on their "new fangled" dvd players when it comes out.
Maybe you only talked with a few people who have seen it, because you have only talked to a few people. Trust me, we are not without our modern conveniences. Heck, we even have cellphones!! We call them Camod-phones!!
There are some people who barely get by financially, but more and more, there are people who are doing very well. Maybe there aren't a whole lot of Oglalas posting on the internet because of all the powwows going on. There is also a cultural revival happening with the young, and so there really isn't alot of time to sit on the internet, thankfully! Now, me, I live off the res in Rapid City, so I get to post now and then after work!! MSN messenger is how I keep in contact with my Mom in Wounded Knee and my brother in Porcupine.
Well, Just had to speak up for my Tribe!! Didn't want people thinking that we are so pitiful we can't watch good ole Ted Turner. Carry on, please.

[Historian]

...Also, I'd really like to hear from more people whose tribes were in the movie, especially the Sioux. I'm interested in what some of the older people in your tribes thought about the movie, if they watched?

Just a reminder, there is no Cable TV on Pine Ridge, and most can barely afford basic living expenses and thus do not have Satellite either. I've only talked with a few on Pine Ridge that have seen the series.

[Blackbear]

Yeah when he was riding pony express I was hoping he would run into his mother's family or something like that...

[geronimo]

Dang.........

that sucks....i didn't know if i had missed a scene or something - man, i wish he could have been reunited w/ his family - but, i guess he thought his crazy uncle would have been there and not his dad - oh well..............

[Blackbear]

that was just it Geronimo.. they never did say what happened to him. He left the railroad and that was just it....

[geronimo]

I understand what they were trying to show. My family taught me about these things.

It wasn't the ceremony that bothered me. It was more the underlying tone. The easy identification with the Native ethos that denies the major intellectual currents of American culture at that time. The attitude of the young man was a historical.

This setup seems a bit like a lead in for one of those good white guy feels completed by Indian ways so ultimately he becomes more Indian than the Indians. The reverse captivity narrative that is so part of modern American mythology. A narrative which I think allows Americans to distance themselves from history, by thinking they'd have been the good guy and let the Indians keep their lands and their lifeways.

It seem to me there is an increasing movement, often cloaked in the guise of tell our side of the story, to make the whites villians in a way which allows the viewer with their modern sensiblities to deny kinship to the ethos that spawned Manifest Destiny. It is harder but more honest to paint the whites was people doing what they thought right, with horrible consequences.

Understand, I am not projecting all of this into Into the West. But I do see this trend in pop culture depictions of history. And I think I see elements of this type of narrative in Into the West.

That's my two cents worth. Obviously, an inflated two cents in many folks opinion, LOL.

I am sorry if my flippant tone ticked people off.

Goodgirl,
Your observations brought to mind some of what OLChemist said a few comments back. Man, ya'll impress me! I agree w/a lot of them. But, I always remember upfront that this is a movie & their main objective is to make money/bring in viewers. Thank God for good books, those that are written both accurately & unapologetically. Overall, I did like the series. Also, I'd really like to hear from more people whose tribes were in the movie, especially the Sioux. I'm interested in what some of the older people in your tribes thought about the movie, if they watched? And, who knows what happened to Abe Wheeler????

[Dawgwhisperer]

I'm reminded of a quote:

"The mind is like a parachute...it only works when it's open."

Good quote..."thumbs up"....dang! Smilies not workin' again, haha

[Historian]

I'm reminded of a quote:

"The mind is like a parachute...it only works when it's open."

[Dawgwhisperer]

DawgWhisperer,
I understand Song Woman's (OlowanWi) comments. If you have ever been to Wounded Knee in the summer, you will see many tourists, and most bring ignorance at best, and many bring rude behavior. Since there are over 10,000 subscribers on this site, I can certainly understand Song Woman expressing herself in that way, as the information can be disseminated to a wide area very quickly, and may eventually reach a tourist or two. While it is true that the Wounded Knee Massacre is not the only event in history that has produced deep agony, it is a very personal grief for those who had family members killed or wounded there. Lastly, everyone needs to be humble enough to accept advise on how to conduct themselves at all sacred places. It's just common courtesy.

I'm not discounting the very personal grief of anyone who has lost family members, etc. in any event ndn or not. SW's statement that " it is not a tourist attraction, set up to educate you, or fulfill any kind of morbid curiousities" is part of what prompted me to respond. Educating people is the only way to change the ignorant. Ignorance is transcended over just about anything on the planet unfortunately.

Advising ignorant, disrespectful people how to act or change their behavior in a thread about a TV series is not realistic. Perhaps Song Woman would make more progress if she suggests to the people living around the site that they put up signs dictating appropriate behavior, or educate those that actually show up there. I don't know, maybe some of that already exists.

Believe me, I am humble enough to accept advise when it's warranted, but I stand by my comments. It's just the way I see it, further explanation implies that I don't understand it, which I do. Like I told you in an earlier post, I AM interested in knowledge and learning, which depends in part on information dissemination and not the ideal that history belongs to anyone or any group in particular. We're all one, at least that's what people keep saying. So, again I appreciate the things you've given me on this thread so far.

[goodgirl]

Well as a pure-t whitey, I have to give props to this series for getting me pretty interested in indian culture. I don't think I was really ignorant beforehand; most of the stuff in there was familiar to me, but I think because I noticed a few inaccuracies myself, I now want to learn more on my own.

My gut reaction to this, is it seemed a bit... maudlin? The main white characters were all so fuzzy-wuzzy toward Indians for the most part, and I just find that hard to believe in such a large family. Surely there would've been at least one "kill-em-all" type in there. And, probably, the same can be said of the Indians; most of the main characters were too 20th-century p.c. to really ring true to me.

I can't really bring myself to self-loathing for being white, esp. since most of my relatives weren't even in the States then. But I think the disturbing reality probably is, it could all happen again today... I can't really think of a perfect solution to the problem of how to found a great country like the U.S., while leaving the best land to the natives. It's horrible to say, even worse to think, but I bet a lot of white people saw Indian displacement as a necessary evil at worst. So I think a truly honest portrayal would reveal that feeling and try to deal with the conflict. If you're going to do a historical drama, I think you should be as accurate as possible.

Anyway, as I said I liked the miniseries for the most part, it was diverting summer viewing, but I think they missed a great opportunity to really foster greater understanding between our races. But I do appreciate the fact that it made me curious.

PS I'm a journalist and the journalists there reminded me kinda of a modern White House Briefing... haha. "here's reality, and here's the official statement. If you know what's good for you, you know what to write."