New TNT Movie: Into The West

[Historian]

I went back a little through the thread and I'm just curious as to why you are concerned about WK being looked at as a tourist attraction by anyone here. I cannot believe that anyone that frequents this site (that I've "observed" so far) would look at it that way let alone set people up for a "photo op". Personally, I don't see how it could be construed as "your" grief when I already have deep regret and sorrow for all of the horrors that have been endured in general by OUR people. WK is surely one of the most prominent, but not the only event in history that has produced deep agony and pain. I'm not trying to offend you by my comments, but I don't feel like I need to be "advised" on how to conduct myself if I go there. I'm not speaking for anyone else, that's just me.

DawgWhisperer,
I understand Song Woman's (OlowanWi) comments. If you have ever been to Wounded Knee in the summer, you will see many tourists, and most bring ignorance at best, and many bring rude behavior. Since there are over 10,000 subscribers on this site, I can certainly understand Song Woman expressing herself in that way, as the information can be disseminated to a wide area very quickly, and may eventually reach a tourist or two. While it is true that the Wounded Knee Massacre is not the only event in history that has produced deep agony, it is a very personal grief for those who had family members killed or wounded there. Lastly, everyone needs to be humble enough to accept advise on how to conduct themselves at all sacred places. It's just common courtesy.

[kiiyaaniiasdzaa]

I though this movie was kinda cool. Saw alot of people I know. There is this one traditional dancer I always see. Was kinda funny to watch him wanting to trade for a white girl.

[Dawgwhisperer]

Really? Well to me it is cute! So don't be so hard on yourself!!! *L

Yep, I know......don't sweat the small stuff, etc. etc. ...... hahaha (smilies not workin' again).....most days I don't!

[Plenty Fox]

It may look just like your cat, but I FEEL like this sometimes....

Really? Well to me it is cute! So don't be so hard on yourself!!! *L

[Dawgwhisperer]

Hey! That looks just like my cat! *L

It may look just like your cat, but I FEEL like this sometimes....

[Dawgwhisperer]

My Mom lives, literally, down the road, within sight, of the WK Massacre site. I just wanted to make a quick note to people who might visit the site, which I tell everyone I know who goes to visit.
Please keep in mind that this is where our dead are buried. It is not a tourist attraction set up to educate you, or fulfill any kind of morbid curiosities.
The grave site is located among other more current graves, including the one of my friend Katrina.
Conduct yourself, and for goodness sake, your children, as you would at any cemetery.
Keep in mind that we are still mourning the WK tragedy, and go to the mass grave to pray and honor those who innocently lost their lives.
The community of Wounded Knee is still alive, and is struggling to thrive. Respect that people are living around that area, and are not set there for all your photographic needs. Don't portray us as the "poor little Indians". ASK, please, before you photograph our children.
I hope, when you do visit, that you walk away with a feeling of deep regret and sorrow that will help you to understand just a little of our grief.

I went back a little through the thread and I'm just curious as to why you are concerned about WK being looked at as a tourist attraction by anyone here. I cannot believe that anyone that frequents this site (that I've "observed" so far) would look at it that way let alone set people up for a "photo op". Personally, I don't see how it could be construed as "your" grief when I already have deep regret and sorrow for all of the horrors that have been endured in general by OUR people. WK is surely one of the most prominent, but not the only event in history that has produced deep agony and pain. I'm not trying to offend you by my comments, but I don't feel like I need to be "advised" on how to conduct myself if I go there. I'm not speaking for anyone else, that's just me.

[Plenty Fox]

Historian......Did you get this info. from the book you recommended? I have the book by Dee Brown, "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee". I haven't read it yet, but I'm into the info. that you've provided. I want to learn more.

Hey! That looks just like my cat! *L

[OlowanWi]

My Mom lives, literally, down the road, within sight, of the WK Massacre site. I just wanted to make a quick note to people who might visit the site, which I tell everyone I know who goes to visit.
Please keep in mind that this is where our dead are buried. It is not a tourist attraction set up to educate you, or fulfill any kind of morbid curiosities.
The grave site is located among other more current graves, including the one of my friend Katrina.
Conduct yourself, and for goodness sake, your children, as you would at any cemetery.
Keep in mind that we are still mourning the WK tragedy, and go to the mass grave to pray and honor those who innocently lost their lives.
The community of Wounded Knee is still alive, and is struggling to thrive. Respect that people are living around that area, and are not set there for all your photographic needs. Don't portray us as the "poor little Indians". ASK, please, before you photograph our children.
I hope, when you do visit, that you walk away with a feeling of deep regret and sorrow that will help you to understand just a little of our grief.

[White Powwow Dancer]

The word "Wokokpa" on the Historical Marker should have been wo kokipa, meaning "to be afraid." Lakota Wokokipa, or "to be afraid of Lakotas."

Thanks Historian for the info. I watch the sence too when he has be called that.

[CHEROSAGE]

Dawgwhisperer, Historian is correct again as usual about the Hotchkiss Guns. These guns were a very distructful light Artillery piece. Should you ever find yourself in the vicinity of Ft. Sill OK you should take the time to go through the Artillery Museum. This is an inside and outside exibit of just about any and all Artillery guns ever made. This gun was very ingenius and distructive for it's time. I prefered the 155mm gun myself when I was in the Artillery(big guns). I do think that this gun was refered to in the book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. I had to read this book in college when it was written.

I don't think that A Man Called Horse was until after the Mid 70's and the Little Big Man movie was in the early 70's. These were after the Billy Jack Movies in, I think, the early 70's. I remember I just had to have a Billy Jack hat when this movie came out. Some of you guys may remember the time frame better than I. Billy Jack and the Little Big Man movies started a new NDN craze set of movies.

I know that many tribes and villages adopted Whites and Blacks, whether male or female. I am sure that a Cherokee leader having taken over from Dragging Canoe was a Scot with a 1/4 blood Cherokee. He later took many to Texas from the Old Settlers Res. in Ark/Mo. This is just an example. I know I have A white Great Grandma in the closet. (I think she was a european princess.) Ross himself was not even a full blood. I don't know much about the Lakotas/Nakotas/ Dakotas tribal ways but our Osage people used to go make raids into the Southwest and bring back captives whom were adopted into the families.(many of these captives may have been Comanche, Apache, Mexican, Kiowa or even white.) These are things I was told as a child. Historian could tell us more of intigration better than I could.

Just some of my observations. Thanks.

[Historian]

Hi Historian
What is Lakota Wokokpa? Not schooled in Lakota here that the name they called Royer in the movie.

The word "Wokokpa" on the Historical Marker should have been wo kokipa, meaning "to be afraid." Lakota Wokokipa, or "to be afraid of Lakotas."

[Historian]

Historian......Did you get this info. from the book you recommended? I have the book by Dee Brown, "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee". I haven't read it yet, but I'm into the info. that you've provided. I want to learn more.

The specific information on the Hotchkiss Mountain Guns came from a combination of "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee," and:

NOTES ON U.S. ORDNANCE: VOLUME II (1776-1941).
by James E. Hicks.

THE 1886 MACHINE GUN MANUAL: DESCRIPTION OF SERVICE.
by Jacques N. Jacobsen.

[Dawgwhisperer]

The four artillery pieces you refer to as "cannons", used at Wounded Knee were actually 1.65" (40mm), rapid-fire, breech-loading, Hotchkiss Mountain Guns. The 1.65" Hotchkiss Mountain Gun fired a 2 pound, 10 ounce cartrige which would explode on contact, sending out a shower of jagged shell fragments. The four soldiers on each Hotchkiss Mountain Gun could fire at the rate of 50 shells per minute, and had an effective range of 4,200 yards. The effect was horific.

Historian......Did you get this info. from the book you recommended? I have the book by Dee Brown, "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee". I haven't read it yet, but I'm into the info. that you've provided. I want to learn more.

[White Powwow Dancer]

Hi Historian
What is Lakota Wokokpa? Not schooled in Lakota here that the name they called Royer in the movie.

[Historian]

...And, I learned something interesting from Episode 6. I never knew they had cannons @ Wounded Knee. That was absolutely mind-boggling to me............

The four artillery pieces you refer to as "cannons", used at Wounded Knee were actually 1.65" (40mm), rapid-fire, breech-loading, Hotchkiss Mountain Guns. The 1.65" Hotchkiss Mountain Gun fired a 2 pound, 10 ounce cartrige which would explode on contact, sending out a shower of jagged shell fragments. The four soldiers on each Hotchkiss Mountain Gun could fire at the rate of 50 shells per minute, and had an effective range of 4,200 yards. The effect was horific.