New TNT Movie: Into The West

[Esi]

Even though I have it taped, in order for you to watch it I'd have to have it converted .... I don't know too much about it, but a friend always has to go to some professional place to get stuff converted onto kinda like Beta? When she sends stuff home to her family in Germany. She said to wait until it is released onto DVD, and VHS, and maybe you will be able to buy a version in Germany, or Germany compatible?
What I have is on three different tapes. I can't wait for the DVD version!

I started to make a comment about Abe Wheeler going on to become a Scout for the Army and got killed at Wounded Knee, but that was young Jake ..... hmm now I gotta go back and re-watch!

Hi Tsiniti,
Thx so i hope it comes out on DVD soon and then too here in Germany. But here we have nothing heard about it and it*s not in the press...

[goodgirl]

but about the Sundance stuff, not to be disrespectful but is it really a bigger deal than a movie portraying a Christian marriage or similar event? I mean, most movie weddings have no more basis in reality than most Hollywood sundances probably do. You just show up to your $100k party, snicker at one another, and go home and skrew. All the sanctity part of the covenant of marriage is left out. Love, honor, obey? Pah.

[**First Lady**]

but about the Sundance stuff, not to be disrespectful but is it really a bigger deal than a movie portraying a Christian marriage or similar event? I mean, most movie weddings have no more basis in reality than most Hollywood sundances probably do. You just show up to your $100k party, snicker at one another, and go home and skrew. All the sanctity part of the covenant of marriage is left out. Love, honor, obey? Pah.

well c now that's the difference between my beliefs and yours.....i was taught that these sacred ceremonies should not be advertised and televised...they are sacred...if youre at a ceremony it was because someone invited you...it is not being advertised for everybody to know! not saying everybody couldn't be invited, but it is nothing to brag/boast about. some things are sacred for a reason. i cannot speak for a christian...someone who's been married in a church...maybe they don't like their ceremony of marriage being portrayed on television! i d k!

u know what. i'm leaving it at that. i'll just start going off the way my days been so far! have a great day!

[fightingoneself]

well c now that's the difference between my beliefs and yours.....i was taught that these sacred ceremonies should not be advertised and televised...they are sacred...if youre at a ceremony it was because someone invited you...it is not being advertised for everybody to know! not saying everybody couldn't be invited, but it is nothing to brag/boast about. some things are sacred for a reason. i cannot speak for a christian...someone who's been married in a church...maybe they don't like their ceremony of marriage being portrayed on television! i d k!

u know what. i'm leaving it at that. i'll just start going off the way my days been so far! have a great day!

I totally respect what you are saying, and agree to a certain level. The thing is, I think one of the reasons they showed something so sacred was to truely explaine the horrific discrimination, fear, and misunderstands that took place back then. Imagin if a white person from that time period stumbled apon the site of that ceremonie being performed, imagin that would be going through thier mind. Most people are brought up through public school learning about the white man's perspective on the events of the time. This was a chance to show the reality of both sides, (in a kinda strange way) educate the average white person about parts of american and native american culture they were NEVER exposed to growing up in a forum that most people would see, and to hopefully get a lot of people really thinking about what they were never taught in history class. I saw this show more as a way to educate than to entertaine, but then again that might just be me. I for one am grateful to Steven Spielburg for producing this show.

[Soohkiisimsstaan]

After reading this thread; and yes I saw the series, it is safe to say there are as many differing opinions as to what is sacred and inappropriate to televise/film as their are different Indian Nations. I doubt we will ever come to consensus as a people.

[geronimo]

i agree - part of the problem, i believe is: as usual , things that indian people know & hold as sacred are perceived totally different by white people/the majority - they're always like, what's the big deal? "it's just a movie" OR "it's just a mascot for a game" OR "i love the native culture, i feel a part of it, that's why i'm selling pictures of your kids, your land etc."- they always try to justify the "honor" in things they have no frame of reference about

i don't know what the solution is or what boundaries could be set up, especially in regards to movies and the entertainment world - i don't know if much could done on that front, but it would be nice if people were more "enlightened" on the NDN perspective - if they at least could figure out where NDN people are coming from - but, that's a long shot too..........

[goodgirl]

First Lady etc.,
well that was sorta my point... see it DOES offend me a little to see weddings, funerals etc televised or put in movies, but then everyone else just thinks I'm a bit touched in the head. So if you're ndn most people do find it offensive ? -- if so I think that's kinda nice. Hard to explain why I think it's a good thing to be easily offended but I guess what I mean is, I think certain events are sacred and should remain that way and not be trivialized. It's like, at the tv station where I work we're not allowed to air video of the towers falling on 9/11, except in very special cases, because that's the moment when so many souls departed and it's considered too momentous to just "wallpaper" every durn script with it. Some people think that's retarded, but I think it's respectful.

But at the same time, I also get what people mean when they say they do that stuff as a compliment. I mean for us, to have something named after you is the highest honor, whether it's a university or an airport or a public bathroom stall. At the animal shelter, if you make a big enough donation they'll put your and your dog's name on one of their wall tiles. I mean as you know, people buy those cardboard paper shamrocks and whatnot at the grocery store, so their name can be in the store window as a donor for two weeks. We may be ignernt, but we do like our fame. ;)

[Historian]

Maybe...if there were more NDN film-makers, producers, directors, etc., we wouldn't have to rely on people like Spielburg to tell the stories.

Just a thought.

[WhoMe]

Question,

Is it okay to show the ghost dance?

Not too much has been addressed concerning the ghost dance which at one time was also a spiritual dance.

From what I have researched, two tribes still actively do the ghost dance on special occassions.

[**First Lady**]

Maybe...if there were more NDN film-makers, producers, directors, etc., we wouldn't have to rely on people like Spielburg to tell the stories.

Just a thought.

a story is one thing......but why SHOULD our sacred ceremonies be documented on film!!!!!!!????? we keep our traditions/cultures/ceremonies alive by oral communication...and by PARTICIPATING/HAVING/DOING our ceremonies...NOT FILMING THEM SO WE CAN EDUCATE OTHER PEOPLE! oh geez!!!!!!!

[geronimo]

Aboriginal Peoples TV Network Forum

Check out this link. It raises a lot of good points on both sides.

http://www.aptn.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=235&pid=3894&st=0&#entry3894

[Historian]

If we had more NDN film-makers, perhaps they would have the cultural sensitivity to know how to tell a story without exposing sensitive cultural material such as sacred ceremonies.

[WhoMe]

Maybe...if there were more NDN film-makers, producers, directors, etc., we wouldn't have to rely on people like Spielburg to tell the stories.

Historian,

For some reason, it is really hard for American Indian people to break into "The Industry." This includes both in-front-of and behind-the-camera.

"Native people are not born into families who will guide their paths to "priviledged careers" in national politics, multi billion dollar CEO networks and A-list movie careers."

"America is NOT the land of equality. America is the land of who you know, and more importantly, who knows you!"


As we speak there are many Native individuals in both Southern California and the New York City areas, waiting for their lucky break to show their talents. For some reason there is little "A-list work" for American Indian film makers, producers or directors.


There is a better market for Aboriginal First Nations people in Canada, particularly in Vancouver and Toronto.

[goodgirl]

I have to categorically disagree. America IS the land of opportunity, and you are all Americans. I come from an immigrant family and my grandmother didn't speak much English even when she died. My mother lost her father at age 4, her mother mentally and emotionally too, had an abusive stepfather and later an abusive husband. She busted her hump enough to get through college (while working full-time and paying rent to aforementioned stepdad) and even though she has never held a "glamorous" job, she has had a pretty good life and actually had quite an influence. Her son's now a judge and her daughter has a pretty nice job too. :)

Of course it's partly who you know, but who you know is largely up to the choices you make. And being smart, or level-headed, or choosing to pursue a high degree of education isn't "white", and drinking your life away in poverty isn't "Indian"... I grew up hearing Cherokee called "white indians" when they moved away to go to a good school, and that's just silly.

Not trying to flame, but I'd been working up the nerve to post about this and ask why there are no Indian banks to do fee-complex home loans on reservations; why there are hardly any Indians in govt positions, why so few wealthy and influential Indians at all. To those who say "racism" I point out all the black-owned businesses and captains of industry. And they were slaves -- owned by Indians in some cases.

Native culture, much of it anyway, really provides a ot of answers to our modern problems... the ethic of taking care of one another, helping the children and elderly, some of the education systems, respect for the environment. I wish a handful of Indians would get in positions of power because I think the whole country could benefit. Not sure what kind of culture you expect to have left for your grandkids, if you don't respect them enough to do what it takes to change things.

Waiting for the to start now, but there's my piece.

[**First Lady**]

If we had more NDN film-makers, perhaps they would have the cultural sensitivity to know how to tell a story without exposing sensitive cultural material such as sacred ceremonies.

OK, now you've made a valid point. I can agree with you on that...however like WHOME said...it's hard to get into that business...especially when it's mostly about who you know!

********************
once again to tell a story about my people is one thing....but to act out a ceremony is another and then to film it...just really really hits a nerve with me!